My other question is, if I choose to pinch some of the seedlings, when should this be done: seasonwise, agewise?
Is this the way to go if I want the plant's caudex to plump up, or giving the plant plenty of sun, moderate amount of water, and fertilizing it very sparingly if at all will do the trick too?
Thanks.

Parodise,
I was thinking the same thing (age of seedlings) before I read your doubt of the age.
I would be hard to quess exactly as so many variables effect the growth rate.
I would quess maybe +/- 6mths.
Either way will not matter as they look healthy and they will grow for you.
As for pinching. This is not something I make a practice of doing, often.
Generally the best time to prune a plant is in spring once they are in active growth or some can get away with twice a year if they live in climate with long growing period.
With the seedlings. If you are keeping them growing under lights, you may be able to do now.
For me I would wait until the spring when you see them starting to push out new growth.
Many do pinch regularly.

Rick

Rick, thank you for your insights, they are very helpful!
As I have no artificial lighting, I will heed your advice and put any potential pinching off till spring.
Do seedlings this small need regular watering over the winter or would it be better/OK to let them dry out and stay so awhile before the next (moderate) watering? Guess, this is a cacti grower now speaking in me - winter has always meant cold, dry and dormant for me and my plants...

Hello and a warm welcome to the forum, I hope you find the info and friendship on here useful...I do!

As Rick says, the seedlings look fine to me too. I was however surprised to see that they were sold as one year olds, even mine here in the UK are bigger and are younger...but I guess it all depends on how they were grown.

Rick is also correct when he speaks about pinching them out as I too would wait till they have begun to grow strongly and have developed much more. You will find once spring arrives, they should put growth on, they may even start to branch on their own as some do. Adeniums can be pinched/pruned at most stages of growth, even mature plants respond well to severe pruning, but best to do it when they are actually 'in growth'.

I have pinched out a couple of my oldest plants when they were around 4 inches tall, they were ones that were not developing branches at that time. I personally don't like the look of one stemmed, tall lanky plants. I prefer them short, stocky and with lots of branches, so I nipped the growing points of 2 of them. They did go on to form several new sprouts, but they were a lot bigger than the small seedling stage yours are at now.

I have several 9mth old seedlings that I have to get through this coming winter, they won't go dormant as small ones rearely do for at least a couple of years I find (my largest ones went 4 yrs without a dormancy). I will keep them as warm as I can and in as much light as I can. They will therefore be watered when dry as mine keep growing even in the winter. I won't feed them till spring though. As long as they are WARM, and stay in leaf, water shouldn't be held back In my opinion.

Is that the mix they came in? As long as it drains almost instantly, and fully, not retaining 'perched' water, all should be fine. If it stays wet/heavy, and therefore possibly COLD, I would un-pot and re-pot in something more suitable.

I have never grown seedlings in multi-pots myself..but I'm guessing this is how you received them? They shuld be OK till spring as they are small, providing the mix is fast draining, but once the season arrives I woud certainly pot up individually else you may get a tangle of roots developing.

Adeniums, aka DR's (desert roses) put on most of their growth in their first years so adequate watering and feeding gives bigger plants with larger caudexes (generally) so once the desired max size is reached, giving less water and food slows growth down.
Just my thoughts and what has worked for me in the past.
Gill UK.

Gill, thank you so much for taking pains to dumb everything down for me - I'm learning by the minute! I certainly love the atmosphere on this forum - I was a lurker for a while and once my plants arrived decided to start bombarding you guys with quesitons:)
The seedlings arrived bare root and I have planted them for the time being in one pot which I believe should give their modest roots enough room and nutrients until next repotting - probably late next spring, or even summer - not sure yet as I'm not familiar with their growth patterns and pace yet.
The medium is mostly coarse sand with roughly a third or less of what I call "meadow soil" - the upper layer of soil I get in the meadows, mostly from mole hills, which has been thoroughly "processed" by grass roots I can see my cacti just love.
Thank you for giving exact dimensions and age of your plants at pinching/pruning - I will definitely have to wait with that and give the plants a chance to branch on their own.
I found your comments in the last paragraph to be an eye-opener, as I believed not forcing plants at young age to go dormant and keeping them warm and growing in our rather dark winter conditions (I'm in the south of Germany) could end up in etiolation and that lanky growth that you mentioned. I understand now, that I should let them grow at their own pace and then worry about the caudex filling out...
I have read a lot about seedlings here on the forum and am curious now, what is the rough percentage of obesum seedlings, or any adenium seedlings for that matter, that demonstrate early on potential for large stout caudex? At what age does the potential become apparent?

Lena

Lena,
I am not sure if there is a definitive answer to that question?
I believe the first thing to get a really fat caudex is Genetics. Then there are the environmental, climate (growing season) and manipulation.
I like to grow mine without pushing with heavy fertilization. If they receive strong sunlight for atleast 8 Hrs. in summer, they should grow with minimal space between internodes. The spaces generally are greater if lacking good light. Sometimes although this can just be genetic as well.
I have kept a good number of seedlings all from same pod parent for 2 yrs. now and the differences in caudex, leaf, size, etc. is quite amazing. Now hopefully they where all actually from the same pod?
Rick

Rick,
my seedlings are 3 different hybrids. Funnily, the largest and the smallest (was a bonus plant) are both Violet City, from the same batch I guess. The other two are Bertha and Orange V. I realize I shouldn't expect much in terms of flowers as they can turn out totally different from the parent plant. I bought them primarily for their caudex. There wasn't much choice as I was buying on ebay.
Do you believe some particular hybrids are more likely to grow an impressive caudex than the others? Are species a better bet in this respect than hybrids (selected primarily, as I understand, for their flowers)? Wonder what your observations would be here...

Lena

Hi Lena,
I can tell you what I have learned so far.
For a very large caudex with not too much concern about flower color the 'Arabicum' is what people would seek. They grow across the soil where the 'obesum'
tend to grow subcutaneously and we lift to expose the roots to expose and show more (now called the caudex)
Both can and are raised.
The large twisted look of the 'obesum' when older is quite neat and with the addition of nice flowers is only a plus.
Some say that there are ones in particular which are often more readily produce bulbous caudexes sooner.
I believe one is 'Super Big Chubbiness'.
I have a few Mini-Sized hybrids growing and they are short and chubby, but will grow alot slower. They seem to be fairly true to seed for grow for me.
'Marie' has some really cool looking plants for both caudex and flower. Check out some of the posts by her and you should come by them.
There are many others here as well.
I have learned with the Arabicums, that you still deal with the unknown when starting from seed. You can plant 10 seeds and get many different characteristics.
Rinoa, has some really neat Thai Soco x Arabicum seedlings listed on her site and they are very short and quite wonderful.
You can learn alot on this site as there are a very diverse and friendly group of people here. Keep checking in and I am sure they will help out.
Young Thai Socotranum (Arabicum) Golden Crown
{{gwi:352855}}

Much older Arabicum (Did not start this one)
{{gwi:351295}}

A few Obesum's
{{gwi:348898}}

Rick

Hello Lena,
Welcome to the forum, we have members from all over the world covering just about all climatic conditions which is good. Your young seedlings look well so give them a nice sunny south facing window during the day if possible and they will reward you. I think you may have warmer summers than we have in the UK and that would be an advantage. I see that you favour the caudex. I always say that the caudex is like a fingerprint, they are all different and that is part of the interest. Arabicums are often displayed with dramatic caudex and roots so do a search on those, it wont be long before you add a few to your collection. Best of luck with your plants and keep us posted.
Brian UK.

Hi Lena this is a great forum full of very helpful people, as you may already know from lurking. I agree, that although every seedling can be vastly different, yours sure look much younger than one year. Here are two of my seedlings just to show you that you are the mercy of genetics for the most part when it comes to early seedling caudex. The one on the left is 7 months old, is only 2 1/2 inches tall and is fat fat fat! The one on the right is only about 6 months old and is thin and 4 inches tall. They were grown identically, full sun and no fertilizer until the past month.

You'll have so much fun watching them grow and shape themselves!

{{gwi:354246}}

-Heather

Heather- what type of fertilizer did you use, how much of it and when did you fertilize your seedlings? Mine look very similar in size to yours as well!! Mine are about 7 months old or so.
Such great information on this post- thanks to All!! ;-)

Chuy

Rick, your plants are wonderful, thanks for sharing the pics! Loved that fat squat arabicum of yours! Appreciate your pointing out the difference in growth of arabicum vs obesum. Are only obesums "lifted" to expose caudex/roots? Does arabicum develop its caudex above the surface naturally? Sorry to ask so many questions again - the only adeniums I get to see around here are the ones clearly started from cuttings and very young on top of that...

Brian, I guess our climate is similar (I'm in Southern Bavaria, 550m a.s.l.), your winters should be much milder though. The summers are really strange here - it's cold and rainy all through June and the climate overall is rather wet and changeable... But I hope my adeniums will adjust... I do favor the caudex over flowers which are just too much of a lottery for me... But I will admit, those spectacular blooming specimens they manage to grow in Thailand/Taiwan make me drool...:) Arabicums are definitely on the agenda after I accumulate some more experience with my "guinea pigs" which are, nonetheless, very dear to me, no matter what I happen to buy later.

Heather, thank you for your input - I feel I just enrolled in an Adenium Academy:)) Your plants confirm that it's Mother Nature who has the ultimate say in how the plant turns out... Do you believe the taller plant on the right can still considerably fill out later?

Lena

Chuy, the big one is 6 months old and the small one 7. The rest of my seedlings are mostly about 3 - 3 1/2 inches high, save for another couple fatties. I started using Dyna-Gro's Foliage Pro (9-3-6) at the advice of this forum (Al) because I transplanted them into gritty mix last month. I just use I think 1 tsp to a gallon once a week I think. Not sure if it is helping but they are growing new leaves. Now, if the caterpillars don't defoliate them....lol.

-Heather

Lena, this is my first foray into seedlings so I don't know but I am sure they will. The interesting stuff usually happens under the soil and you see it when you raise it a little each year, as someone else mentioned here. Look around the forum - recently someone posted some pics of their I think 1 or 2 year old plants that have wonderful amazing caudexes. I bet those started out as skinny little seedlings too.

-Heather

Lena,
I love the larger Arabicum and I was so fortunate to be introduced to the gentleman here close by. Do not know if I would ever have one this size otherwise.
They raise both Arabicums and Obesums, but the Obesums more so.
The Arabicums in Thailand, Taiwan, etc. are raised and roots manipulated somewhat, looking like a octopus tentacles. They do flower though.
From what I have been informed of. The Arabicums from seed, can be very different and not all giving that short squat appearance.
I am sure you will enjoy watching yours mature. They will each have their own unique characteristics in time.
Never feel uncomfortable asking people here for help or info. They are always very pleased to do so. We can all learn something from each other, no matter how long we have been growing these Adeniums.
Rick

Thank you Heather for the info! ;-)

Chuy

Heather, I guess Adeniums are like that proverbial ugly duckling turning into a beautiful swan eventually... With the help of our TLC... I'm ready to wait and patiently nurture my seedlings into adulthood...

Rick, how large was your arabicum when you acquired it? What's the size of the pot it presently resides in? When was the last time you repotted it?

Lena

Hi Lena, thought IâÂÂd post you some pics I used in an earlier thread, this time to show you how seeds sown at the same time and under the exact same conditions can vary so much in size and shape. I suppose I have no knowlege if the seeds were even from the same pod really, but it gives you some idea of what growth IâÂÂve got from the dates they were sown and the different shapes they already have. I find it difficult to decide which will be âÂÂkeepersâ at this early stageâ¦I just havenâÂÂt the heart to discard even the smallest one! Unfortunately, they seem have the ability to cull themselves with little intervention on my part! The middle somalense will be next I fear as it is having difficulty holding itâÂÂs leaves, they appear to be very weak, spindly affairs and keep dropping off. ItâÂÂs caudex is rock hard though and the rest are continuing to grow steadily even at this time of year.
firstly, here are the obesum var. âÂÂLuciaâ seedlings all planted early March 2013â¦.
{{gwi:354247}}
next are the obesum var. âÂÂSaturnâ youngsters, again planted on that same dateâ¦
{{gwi:354248}}
below are my NOID obesums, the two in the terra-cotta pots were planted in July 2011, the smaller ones in March 2013 again
{{gwi:354249}}
these ones are Ad. somalense from the March 2013 sowing
{{gwi:354250}}
and these are my favourite seedlings to date, the chunky Ad. arabicum âÂÂBouquetâÂÂ, again they are the results from the March 2013 germination
{{gwi:354251}}
finally, here are my older NOID obesums, planted in February 2008â¦
{{gwi:354252}}
Gill UK

Great looking seedlings Gill! I do love seeing everyone's arabicums. I must work on getting one or some seeds.

-Heather

Lena,
The large Arabicum in photo, I have only had it since June/July.
I repotted it a few days after I received it.
The caudex is 6 1/2" wide and root width makes it 9" wide.
I would like to find a circular or oval pot a little larger than the one it is in now and a bit shallower.

Gill,
Your seedlings look all so fantastic.
I love your Arabicum 'Bouquet's'. They are so stout (not the beer, my favorite). Did you ever pinch them at an early age? May have asked this in other thread, must be the age factor or the stout. Sorry I will stop.
You do an amazing job with them.
Rick

Gill- great looking seedlings!! Awesome job in keeping them healthy looking. ;-). Congrats

Chuy

Heather Rick & Chuy.....thanks!
The Arabicums seem to be growing at a slightly faster rate than the others at the moment, even though the days are short and currently rather dismal.

Rick...Yes, they are definitely distinct in their shape. I've never pinched them, they seem to have abruptly stopped caudex growth upwards, formed a rounded off top and pushed out branches from points to the sides of this rounded surface. There are also signs of branch growth coming from, or around a central point on their tops. Mmmmh, very different to what I'm seeing in any of the other types I have....maybe the start of the typical arabicum growth?
Gill UK

Gill,
thank you so much for posting so many pics - you have lovely seedlings and plants! Your smaller NOIDs seem to branch out nicely - any chance they could be arabicums?
Have any plants in the pictures been pinched/pruned? Just curious what it looks like...
Your older NOIDS are very impressive and seem to have the right genes for building beautiful caudexes! How many times have they been raised? When was the last time - I see some marks on the caudexes?
I will agree with everyone else - your Bouquets are feast for the eye!
Gill, what happens eventually to the "non-keepers"? :)
Lena

Rick, is it difficult to acclimate an adenium as large as your arabicum to new growing conditions?

Hello Lena, just thought the pics may give you an insight as to the various rates of growth that I see in my plants.

The smallest NOIDs were from seed kindly given to me by Rick, so both of us can only assume that they were what the seller said they were, obesums.

The left hand one in the older NOID group (last pic) was pinched a couple of years ago as it's shape needed a tweak I thought.... Once pinched out, it sprouted it's current head of branches.
The centre one lost a few tips, but not as many as that left one due to 'crispy tip syndrome' as I call it. The branch ends dry and don't let the leaves push out, sometimes the tips dry too much and just pop off...all this does is force more dormant buds to try and grow.
The right hand one just does it's own thing, it threw loads of branches naturally, so many I can't count them!!
A fourth member of this group was pinched as again it was destined to be a single stem with no sign of branches, a look I personally don't admire. Sadly it's now feeding the garden as it's compost!! It died due to rot when our 'house sitter' flooded it.

The large ones are raised at each spring re-pot. First time was when they were a couple of yrs old maybe. The marks are staining on the skin from watering. I took the pics shortly after they had the drench to try and wash out any excess fertilisers in the mix. Something I try to do each month. It will wash off, I use a soft 1cm wide paintbrush and plain water...it soon comes off. When some DR's mature, they get a netted type of skin and this is what has absorbed the stain. I'm thinking it's tannin as I use a large % of rather dark coloured bark in my mix.

One point I forgot to mention earlier....If you pinch/prune a DR it will only branch at a leaf node or a scar from where a previous leaf was (so that is still a node), so another reason why I personally wouldn't prune yours yet, better to let them get more height/leaves first, they may well start the process on their own!

and finally, in answer to the last question...I've never had a non-keeper, I can't bare to throw any away, they all get a chance with me!
Gill UK

Gill,
Those Arabicum 'Bouquet' are amazing. I am envious of yours. Must have sent you the wrong seeds.
Your plants all look stunning and what ever you do, you grow very compact and healthy Adeniums.
Rick

Lena,
I potted it up within days of getting it as I did not like the pot it was in.
It is losing it's leaves, but this is fine.
I know that with dormant plants in winter if they are received bare root and leafless, that they take some time to recover, but will.
Yours are in leaf, so that's a good thing and look good.
Rick

Gill,
thank you for all the details on pinching! I have learned a lot from seeing and reading about your adeniums! You also mentioned a very important point about nodes - my little obesums don't have a single scar from losing leaves yet - their very first pair of leaves is still full of life and is of saturated green color. So the pinching idea is resting on the back burner for the time being - if I ever need to resort to it - as I have learned from your and other members' plants they should definitely be given a chance to develop their own growth character.
How high do you raise your seedlings/adult plants? Should all the caudex be above the surface, or some part of it should rather be buried underneath?
Do you use bark for "mulching" only, or is it part of your potting mix?
I'm really sorry about that beautiful plant you lost to rot... What did it look like before you decided it was unsalvageable?
Lena

Rick,
my obesum seedlings, luckily, spent only 2 days bare root as they were sent from a town nearby and German post works with lightning speed, so I guess the plants barely noticed anything. The few wrinkles I did notice on the stem of the smallest one have disappeared two days after I potted them up and
by looking at them I'd say they are happily settling in.
I guess if a plant like your arabicum stays bare root longer it shouldn't be too much of an issue for it as it has plenty of water stored in its caudex (my guess only).
Lena

Parodise,
Those are very beautiful seedlings. I would not pinch, they look stout and not growing tall. As for potting. They might grow larger individual root systems without interference if separate. Do not put them in too big a pot and not real deep.
What nice specimens.
Rick

How often and how much water are you guys watering your 2-6mo old seedlings?

Rick,
thank you for your answer - it's very reassuring! My plantlets have spent the whole growing season outside on the balcony, getting plenty of sun from early morning till late noon. I also fertilized with orchid fertilizer (low in N) on a regular basis. Even the tiny one has filled out nicely! I guess the lesson I have learned from this experience is not to judge seedlings early on and let them show their potential. Of course, there are some outstanding ones you single out right away among siblings - wasn't my case, obviously, as I bought only these four on ebay. I'm very excited to see how they will be growing in the future! I'll heed your advice and will not pinch - let my first adeniums develop naturally! Thanks!

Lena

Just one more "interim" picture taken beginning of April. The seedlings are in the same little pot you see in the first post in this thread, with just a bit of coarse sand added.

This post was edited by parodise on Sun, Aug 10, 14 at 6:45

Jason,
I water intuitively, depending on the temps, amount of sunshine, humidity, etc. One important thing I learned here is you shouldn't let your (especially young) Adeniums dry out - something I have always been prone to doing as I grow a lot of cacti. I guess the trick is to get your potting mix right, then watering isn't so much of an issue. I use a cacti mix (compost-based, with only a token amount of peat in it) plus coarse sand. Good top and bottom drainage are important, too. What has your experience been with seedlings?

Lena

Lena,

I completely agree with you that the trick is getting your potting mix right for 'you'. I say you...since each person lives in different climates and have unique ways of taking care of their plants, including their watering regiment.

I have started adding a great deal of aged manure in my containers and am seeing a HUGE difference in the positive response I am seeing. In fact, I will be repotting a lot of my plants in my greenhouse adding an abundance of this aged manure.

I enjoyed seeing the update of your plants. They look so healthy. Bravo!!!

Ladylotus,
you got me really interested in that manure part in the potting medium! Do you use horse or cow manure? When you say aged, how old should it be? Pardon the details, but here where I live it's easy to find horse droppings on walking trails, they are several days old and a bit dried in the sun - this would be probably too fresh, wouldn't it? If I collect these, how do I go about "aging" them? I have been using a bit drier horse apples to fertilize my Cattleyas (orchids) by just adding - sprinkling - dried manure on top of the pine bark, it later gets washed deeper into the substrate. My orchids seemed to be very happy with this "treat". I read about a guy who has been growing Cymbidiums - orchids again - in pure aged horse manure and has been getting outstanding results.
Never thought, though, it could benefit Adeniums, as they are presumably desert plants? How do you feed Adeniums with it?

Lena

Lena,

The manure I use is from horses. I get huge truck lodes from people who stable their horses The manure is mixed with woodchips/cedar chips. I pile this up for a coupe years before I use it on my gardens and plants in my greenhouse. I cannot take credit for coming up with using it on my adeniums...I am on these Adenium facebook groups and they grow their adeniums in coarse white sand and aged manure. I cannot get the coarse white sand but use potting soil, perlite, turface and horse manure. What a HUGE difference I've seen with this blend.

I do water with rain and a very weak blend of a fertilizer mix.

Good luck Lena with your Adeniums.

Tj

Hi there Lena, nice to see you back again. Your little plants are looking real good aren't they? If they were mine, I would be looking towards potting them up in separate pots as I think they are ready to 'move house into their own pad' now so to speak, lol! I'm sure they will benefit from a move now as the weather is still warm enough for them to adapt into their own home before the dreaded winter approaches. Best of luck with them.

Gill UK

TJ,

I'll definitely try horse manure on some of my adeniums and see how they respond.
BTW, I get white coarse sand from a pet store - it's available in various sizes in the aquarium department, along with variously sized gravel!

Lena

Hi Gill,

it's good to hear from you, too! My first foray into the realm of adeniums seems to be partly successful - partly, because even though all my obesums (four of them) have been thriving, my two socotranums are fighting for their life. I was away on a long vacation and friends badly overwatered both of them. They lost all their foliage and all the roots except taproot. The caudexes have gone yellowish on one side, but they are still hard to the touch which gives me a glimmer of hope they might recover. Have repotted both and put in a shady place. Now waiting with fingers and toes crossed...
How have your babies been doing? Has it been a good summer for you over in the UK?

Lena

If I repot the seedlings now into separate pots, should I expect any sort of accelerated growth during what's left of the growing season or rather next year? Do seedlings prefer/benefit from being rootbound or they should rather be given more "legroom"?