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Cyclamen mite question.

Posted by nmushka 6 (waxwinged@gmail.com) on
Wed, Apr 27, 11 at 13:03

Apparently, I've got 'em...

http://www.entomology.umn.edu/cues/inter/inmine/Mitesc.html
http://entnemdept.ufl.edu/creatures/orn/cyclamen_mite.htm

Has anyone tried temperature control listed on those websites? ("Immersing infested plants (pot and all) into water heated to 43 C for 15-30 minutes") Would that harm the AVs?


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Cyclamen mite question.

I read about 47C for 5 min. Thing is - it is hard to maintain the temperature - you dip your plant - it drops. And you are not supposed to immerse your soil - otherwise it will be all over your plant.

I seems indcredibly cumbersome - but if you invent some way to do it - share with us.

I would go for chemicals - AVID, JUDO, PYLON. The issue is to find somewhere a small quantity not to pay a bundle for the pint.

Irina


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RE: Cyclamen mite question.

Thanks, Irina..

Was hoping to avoid all the nasty chemicals. Think I'll try and rig up a system for heat-treatment of the root ball.. maybe wrap it in cheese cloth/make a little dipping net out of wire?

Will post updates.


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RE: Cyclamen mite question.

Hmm - do not forget the thermometer and source of hot water to add to the pail when the temperature drops.

In my understanding people in England are much more aware of not using the poisons where they live and breathe - so if you look in the British published books on AVs - the recommendation is - if you got mites - dispose of all your plants - and wait several months before getting new stock.

When I need to spray my plants - I do it in the garage with electric sprayer in a protective mask, gloves etc. And take a shower afterwards. The list of the chemicals I quoted - is not very poisonous and probably not dangerous to anything besides fish and bees. But - it is definitely not vitamins.

Irina


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RE: Cyclamen mite question.

Toss-all seems like an overkill if you can just heat-kill 'em, though..

Anyway, onward with the results so far:

Did 2 young plants (~6 inches across, cups and all) at 116 degrees for 5 minutes on the 27th. Used a sink-full of hot water+ some boiled water on the side to raise the temperature. Also used a hubby, and a ThermoWorks digital thermometer that hubby uses for brewing.

Two days later, both plants are still looking nice and perky; I picked through the root-ball of one, and nothing's moving down there. We'll see if any bugs/eggs survived and if the plants will begin to recover in a few weeks.

Bright side: The procedure was not that messy. There was a few perilite floater-bits on the top of the water afterward, but nothing like the mud-bath I was expecting.

Dark side: It's definitely a 2-person job, one to monitor the temperature/add hot water and one to hold the plants down (the plants -will- float).

Other thoughts: If you put some of those kebab skewers through the root balls, you could probably submerge as many as 5-6 plants at a time.

It helps to have a slotted spoon to mix in the additional hot water. A spoon is also a viable option for holding down the plants. ;)

Since these two plants survived this, I'll dip the remaining 30+ as well. Some of the smaller babies may not make it due to water-logging/root rot. The only alternative that comes to mind is to yank them out of the pots and then replant in sterile and dry mixture right after dipping..?

Any thoughts/opinions would be appreciated.


Keeping fingers crossed,

Nadya


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RE: Cyclamen mite question.

Nadya -

Are yu 100% sure that it is mites?

Irina


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RE: Cyclamen mite question.

Fairly sure. Used a magnifying glass and all- tiny, round-bodied yellow bugs.


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RE: Cyclamen mite question.

Dipped the rest of the plants on April 30th; everything under 3 inches across did not make it.


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RE: Cyclamen mite question.

Good to know about the little ones. Thanks. Did this take care of the mite problem? If so, it's a great solution.

Alana


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RE: Cyclamen mite question.

You mean, bad to know about the little ones? Eheh.

So far, there's still no sign of the mites returning.


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RE: Cyclamen mite question.

Hi,
Does the hot water treatment kill the eggs too? I'm not sure what the life cycle of a mite is- something you may want to research.
I hope you don't have to use chemicals, since it is not something you want to do, BUT I really think you need them to completely eradicate mites. Forbid is a miticide AND an ovicide and you only need to use it once- as it has translaminar properties (you spray the front and it works through to the backside of the leaf).

Just my two cents.:)
Good Luck!~


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RE: Cyclamen mite question.

The heat treatment seems to be used for strawberry starts, so I'd -guess- it would kill the eggs as well. It remains to be seen.

Thanks for the miticide recommendation.. will look into it if this doesn't work.


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RE: Cyclamen mite question.

The difference between strawberries and violets - is the farmers want 95% eradication - and we want 100%.

Be vigilant!

irina


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RE: Cyclamen mite question.

Hi
Has anyone thought about cutting the root ball off the plant before you dipped them? I would suggest that it might be worth a try. Then you could restart the crown in fresh mix.
Fred in NJ


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RE: Cyclamen mite question.

Fred -

what do you think? - if we are ready to restart the plant from a crown - we can as well dip it in a solution of alcohol or Clorax.

I would think that saving the plant that shows the mite damage... the crown center is already busted, so if we just take leaves, soak them in something and put them down for babies - probably less hassle - and new starter plants in 4 months.

Irina


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RE: Cyclamen mite question.

Bad news. The majority of the treated plants literally flopped over and died. All but 4 or 5 (ironically, the biggest ones) are limp-leaved and look to be beyond salvage. What the heat started, root rot finished? Blah.

Re-rooting the crown sounds like a much better alternative, if you make sure to thin out the returning growth down to 1 growing center, I think.


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RE: Cyclamen mite question.

When I read this post, I knew the heat treatment would kill your viiolets. I can't believe someone actually put that out there as a treatment for mites! Anyhow, I know you don't like to use pesticides; who does? But when you have mites, that's what it takes to save your violets. There is a miticide called Forbid that kills all stages of mites including their eggs. If you had just a few violets, all it would take to treat them is a spray bottle of water with a few drops of Forbid. I used it successfully a few years ago when I recieved some mite infested violets. It worked. The mites died, the violets lived. So sorry you lost your violets.


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RE: Cyclamen mite question.

To be fair, a number of plants are still alive and not teeming with mites. The heat treatment's been offered up for strawberries, not AVs. Maybe those are more heat-tolerant? Either way, if I ever have to do it again (heavens forbid), 'd drop a few degrees temperature-wise.

Still cheaper than miticide.

Cheers,

N


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RE: Cyclamen mite question.

Hiya,
My two cents into the conversation. I got cyclamen mites (checked with a microscope, so it's them alright) on a mango and a salvia. The upshot is that acetamiprid (e.g., BugClear) doesn't work and neither does soapy water: I've tried dropping mites into them under mike and see how they do (Easy Step 1: catch a live mite...), and they did bloody well. No effect whatsoever in 10 minutes, when I gave up watching.
Now, hot water dipping. I did 110F for 30 minutes with both plants, no effect on mango and great improvement on salvia at first with remarkable new growth, but only for ten days, then we're back to square one. I think that the problem is that mites hide in the crowns and weather the storm , so to say.
Both plants did OK, by the way, although it's plant-specific and of little relevance for this thread.
Any thoughts about where I could get some miticide - Akari, Avid, Floramite, Hexygon, Judo, Ovation, Pylon, Sanmite, Shuttle, Tetrasan, Ultiflora in the UK without parting with arm and a leg? They've got them on eBay, but it'll be cheaper to re-stock everything.

Thanks.


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RE: Cyclamen mite question.

Joe -

my understanding is that in UK using pesticides is much more restricted and if you order it from abroad - there is a good chance the customs will stop it. Probably a shipment from a private party - means ebay - has better chance.

Floramite - is for spider mites control, not cyclamen.

If neem oil pesticide is available - you can try to control your mites with it = but since it is on contact only and probably not affecting their eggs - you need to spray 3 weeks in a row every several days trying to get to all hiding places. The good part - it is not poisonous for the humans and pets - and it is inexpensive.

irina


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RE: Cyclamen mite question.

I agree, neem oil is really effective.

I use it to spray brugmansias. Those are HUGE plants and very difficult to get the spray everywhere, yet I have been successful.

The great thing about neem is it works in low concentrations. You take one teaspoon and mix it with a pint of water and mist the plant - it kills the mites.

Now if you want to absolutely saturate your plant to make sure every surface is treated, take the teaspoon of neem oil, mix it with a bucket of water, and submerge the entire plant in it. That thoroughly coats everything. But it should be a low enough concentration that it won't kill off your leaves by blocking their respiration with a coating of oil.

After you submerge the plant, though, you should water it thoroughly, let it drain, water it thoroughly, let it drain, water it thorougly... to wash the neem off of the roots which are more sensitive to losing their ability to get oxygen when coated with oil. Doing that should not affect what's on the leaves, plus it's already so wet from being submerged that you aren't going to "overwater it" by rinsing it and then letting it dry.

African violets are very sensitive to temperature. Both hot and cold will kill them; cold water leaves brown spots you often get on african violets from using cold water. Room-temperature water is fine, and you can let it sit a while to be sure (room-temperature water still feels cool to the touch).


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RE: Cyclamen mite question.

Pizutti -

looks like Joe is dealing with Mango tree and Salvia.

I am not really sure that he is dealing with cyclamen mites, most probably - with spider mites - just because catching a spider mite is possible, cyclamen...just too small of a bugger.

Anyway - I agree with you on Neem oil - it will be his best shot. My guess that you can deal with mites if you use Pyrethrum based spray - the secret is in persistent drenching of the affected plants. So - purchasing a concentrate of something will be good - then he can spray until it drips - and spray again, and spray again.

If these plants are growing outside - there is not an issue of eradicating the mites - but controlling them. Outside - the reinfestation is inevitable, the goal - is to keep their number to minimum.

Irina


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RE: Cyclamen mite question.

Does Neem actually kill cyclamen mite? If so, making a dipping solution doesn't seem like a bad alternative to very expensive and toxic chemicals.

I found a few mites looking at my plants under a pocket 60x microscope. One plant had a couple bugs per leaf, I tossed it. I found a mite on the cutting of that plant, and tossed it. In going over my collection I found a single mite on other plants.

I've already tossed anything I didn't care too much to lose, and took cuttings (of most things in the collection), and segregated them in their own containers... hoping that if I caught this early before it went anywhere I'll have some clean cuttings to fall back on.

I sprayed heavily with Neem today, but I was under the impression that it didn't really affect cyclamen mite much.

I also picked up "Mite-X" from Bonide... no idea if it actually works on cyclamen mite although it claims to. I've sprayed a few plants with it to see (first) if it kills our AVs or if they handle it ok.

I did check every supplier nearby, and no Kelthane (Dicofor) anywhere. I'm not big on the heavy chemicals anymore anyway (I used to work as a grower for a large industial greenhouse, I think I've had enough chemical exposure for one lifetime!)

Any thoughts?


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RE: Cyclamen mite question.

I believe that the conventional wisdom on Neem is that it does not kill cyclamen mites..


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RE: Cyclamen mite question.

It is a very mild "poison" plus it works on contact only - so IF you find each and every mite - and spray it...

Right now there are 2 super effective systemic miticides - Pylon and Judo = Forbid 4F(same active ingredient).

I just got Forbid 4F on ebay - 1/2 oz for $23 which is enough for 8 gallons of spray. Forbid has a good shelf life - so you are done for several years. Pylon is better in a sense that it kills thrips too, but its shelf life is 3 years - and I was not able to find it in small package - and the price of 8 oz of concentrate is close to $500.

irina


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RE: Cyclamen mite question.

That is definitely a reasonable price. Organophosphate's are extremely dangerous though, no matter if the label says "Caution" or not. Even taking my plants outside, my setup is still in my dining room.

I didn't see the REI listed on the MSDS or label. A search of the MSDS for Spiromesifen, though, gave the REI, which is 12 hrs. Not the worst I've seen (or used, I do remember how even the seasoned growers preferred not to have to spray Mesurol) Of course, none of these were in a home environment, which I'm more cautious of. These products are not formulated for home use.

Did you find that one application is sufficient to take care of them?


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RE: Cyclamen mite question.

Yes

I sprayed mine outside, waited until they dried and carried them back. In winter I spray in the garage.

They say AVID is actually worse.

Anyway - the number to look at the safety labels - is LD50. Means letal dose when 50% of rats exposed to this chemical die. Number is 2000mg/kg. What in my interpretation means that if I consume 2g of Spiromesifen per 1 kg of my weight - I will have a 50% chance of dying. Forbid 4F has 48% of active ingredient.

So let's say 130 lbs lady (NOT me, I am way out of 130 lbs range) needs to consume something like 130ml of Forbid 4F straight from the bottle to have 50% chance of dying. What I get from ebay - is 15 ml.

Actually the worst we are using are fungicides. The LD numbers are in in hundreds which means - never use Bordeaux mix at home.

So - long sleeve shirt, gloves, glasses, cover your nose and mouth with something - light scarf will work too - spray - and take a shower afterwards, clothes go to the washer.

I.


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RE: Cyclamen mite question.

Yes and no.

While, yes, a lethal dose is that number, it isn't taking into effect how many chemicals can either store in your body, and it isn't considering the carcinogenic effects. Organophospates are known carcinogens, so take extra precautions with them. Also, use of chemicals can cause sensitivity to them.

I'm not opposed to chemicals, I try to only use them when completely necessary these days. I hung up my respirator years ago, as they say. :D My biggest worry is when people don't take them seriously (which you clearly do).

That being said, I, too, couldn't resist such a small size for a reasonable price and ordered it as well.

Thank you for your input!


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RE: Cyclamen mite question.

I've acquired over 65 african violets within the last 6 months and also have many leaves rooting. I thought I had cyclamen mites (can't see a thing a power hand lens of 15 - just long hairs. I have literally dipped every plant (not the rooting leaves -they don't appear to be effected and are under cover - in Avid 3 times, run my fans on high until they dried and they all seem to be fine but once the hairs are there in the center how do you know the mites are gone?


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RE: Cyclamen mite question.

Mites are literally poisoning the plants when they are feeding, so you will see the distorted hairy centers, with extra small leaves, bubbly leaves - and they will spread through your collection. If your plants look normal and grow normal - you are OK.

You can see them with a good 15x lens, extra light - like with a flash light - you see them moving on the leaves. You won't see the details, but you will see small almost transparent critters moving.

I would spray your leaves as well.

Irina


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RE: Cyclamen mite question.

  • Posted by Cjer Z5 /6 MI (My Page) on
    Fri, Oct 28, 11 at 19:23

Thanks Irina. I checked with a flashlight and hand lens and couldn't see any "critters" of any kind. Maybe I didn't have cyclamen mites. I read in one place that the leaves curled down (about 4-4 of mine did that) and in another that the leaves curled up. I have nothing else on the plants, no bad leaves (other than the few curling down), no marks or distortion of any kind. Just long hairs. The plants are growing well and new leaves appear to be normal in size.

I will hope for the best. I know the Avid is costly but not nearly as much as the cost of replacing all or most of the plants.

Cj


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RE: Cyclamen mite question.

Looks like Forbid 4F is less poisonous, one application only and you can get a small portion from ebay.

It is like a case you start reading a medical encyclopedia - and find that you have all the diseases including hoof and mouth one...

Avid is not that costly - Judo or Pylon - that's costly. Pylon is probably most universal - kills thrips too - but - the shelf life only 3 years and the price is around $500.


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Cyclamen mite question.

  • Posted by Cjer 5/6 MI (My Page) on
    Sun, Oct 30, 11 at 14:18

Wow those are pricey!!!Thanks for the info on Forbid 4F. I'll take a look at that!

Cj


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RE: Cyclamen mite question.

It is not pricey if you calculate how much you pay for each spraying - because for $500 you get 8oz of high concentrate. The problem is - - nobody sells smaller amount - and if the club buys it for the members and everybody gets his small bottle - most of the stuff will expire before it is needed.

I.


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RE: Cyclamen mite question.

I suspect that I have mites on some local garden store violets that I got. I only had a 10x jeweler's loupe, so I coludn't identify exactly, but the center leaves are small, white, deformed and hairy. I can post pictures, but my ebay 40x loupe won't be here for a few days, and I've tossed the offending 3 plants.

My question is, I have about now 20 violets from Robs, all are doing fine, in another tray which are tray wicked together. I had the sick violets in another tray, but how likely is it that my other plants will get mites? i.e. how easily do they travel? They're not touching each other, but they have been a few inches away at some points, I can't remember if they might have brushed one or two.

I bought a 1/2 oz of Forbid 4F, should I spray all of my plants? How do you spray, like I have a gallon sprayer for fungicides for plants outside, and then I have a 4 gallon mega sprayer for my roses. I only have like 20 violets, I can't imagine using that much, can I just use like a hair spray water bottle (that I never use again)? Should I get the undersides of leaves and soil? I have a full active charcoal respirator etc... and I can spray in a closed garage (too cold to open the door).

Do mites travel via common wick? I don't see any signs on the other violets that I got from Rob, they're all doing great except for one with powdery mildew which I'm going to repot and treat with phyton 27. I'm still getting the hang of things!


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RE: Cyclamen mite question.

Hair spray bottle is fine, mark it clearly "poison" with a Sharpie. You probably will get by with a pint of solution - so if you need 1/4-1/8 of a teaspoon per gallon, 120/drops in a teaspoon - 30-15 drops per gallon - 2 - 4 drops per pint. Lets make it 3 per pint of warm water, better distilled, you can add your physan too and spray the works.,

Mites - you touch a leaf - you touch another one in a next room - here it goes. Plus - they run quite fast, plus the males grab baby females, mate with them and carry them to the next plant to give the progeny better chance. So - to be on a safe side - spray now. After the mite damage happens - it takes a plant a long time - like a year - to grow out of the ugly leaves. So probably it is better to take a leaf and start babies. The same with the store bought plants - it is much safer to leave yourself a leaf, dip it in alcohol or Clorax, and restart - instead of trying to get rid of all the critters.

Irina


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RE: Cyclamen mite question.

Thanks again as always! I should have my loupe by friday to confirm. I don't have any damage on the 20 I bought from Rob's but the ones from the store are in the trash, so hopefully a preemptive spray will keep me clean.


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RE: Cyclamen mite question.

The problem with 40X lupe - is that you cannot hold it in your hands and still see anything. The movement of your body doesn't let you stay focused on a leaf surface.

The fact that you didn't see anything - doesn't mean that you are bug free, There is always a doubt that you just missed one. It is only if you found one - then you can be sure that there is more than one.

If your plants do not show "an allergic reaction to mites" - and if you spray them preemptively - then you are home free. More or less.

There is always another day and another bug...

I.


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