Shop Products
Houzz Logo Print
froeschli

Shallow root system...

Karin
9 years ago

So, I went to examine one of the av's that was ailing, and pretty much the bottom half of the soil fell straight out of the pot. I've noticed the same with a few other plants - the roots only seem to fill the top half of the soil, and the one I tried to 'make' grow deeper (tied a mesh around the soil ball inside the pot to stop it from separating every time I moved something) went and rotted right away. So, obviously, these plants want shallower pots.

Now, would it suffice to just fill the bottom half of my pots with perlite, or do I have to cut them down by half?
I've cut a few that i had plenty of, but would rather keep some in their original size, especially the nicer new ones I just bought. (I am more attached to the plants than the pots though).

The picture shows the plant with root ball on top of the upturned pot. It used to be big enough for it.... Just drying it out a bit.

Thanks,

Karin

Comments (31)

  • philpet
    9 years ago

    Not an expert but that pot was way too big,for that plant.i keep all my abs in solo cups until they are say 10-12" I use to have the same problem here until Linda advised me to pot down all of them. I couldn't get small pots so o used the solo cups place in larger plastic pots and they worked amazing.i also learnt that they like small shallow pots.i will post you a pic later so you see what I mean.velleta

  • Vikki
    9 years ago

    Rule of thumb is 3:1 leaves to pot size. The plant should be at least 3 times wider than the pot it's in. And yes, they do have shallow roots. Using too deep of a pot can rot the roots because it stays too moist.

  • fortyseven_gw
    9 years ago

    Hi
    If it was me, in my environment,
    I would put a 1/2 inch layer of perlite on the bottom and repot it in the same pot. It will soon fill out. This is the growing season.

    Don't try to cut down the green pot. If you do as Veletta suggests, then use a solo cup or equivalent. It is easier to cut one of those to size than the green pot.

    Also, don't tie the roots in a mesh ball. This will disturb the plant and slow it down.

    Joanne

    This post was edited by fortyseven on Sat, May 10, 14 at 11:08

  • Karin
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Thanks velletta and vivey,

    That plant used to be 3 times the size of that pot until a week ago... I took a row of leaves to root, after I'd lost one (row) to rot and it has lost more since. I am not expecting it to make it, that's why the drastic measures. Still, the roots appear solid enough that I can't get any more soil out of them...
    The question is more about the shallow root system not this plant in particular. I typically keep mine in 1oz shotglasses, then 1.5" square pots, then 2" pots, etc. typically anything I buy gets repotted to half the size...

  • Karin
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Yes Joanne,
    The root ball thing was definitely a failed experiment!

  • fortyseven_gw
    9 years ago

    Sounded like a tea bag! If all else fails, make AV tea! At least you are inventive! J

  • quimoi
    9 years ago

    How big is the pot? Square pots hold more soil than round pots, BTW. Novosel tells just how much more (or if you're handy with the calculator you can figure it out). Anyway, the point is that a 2-1/2" square pot is bigger than a 2-1/2" round pot.

    Diana

  • Karin
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    The square pot is just under 3" per side. The picture shows it inside one of the usual 4" pots you buy av's in at the store.
    Then there's the 2" an the small square one I use as a step up from the shot glass.

  • Karin
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Stupid enough, I was out of perlite, so I cut down a pot after all...
    I will try the perlite approach with the next one though.
    I cut the pot just big enough to fit the existing roots with the soil they held - who knows, it may still make it...

  • philpet
    9 years ago

    If the leaves are resting on the pot they might get scared from the edge because you cut it.put a piece of foil on it to protect it.just a thought.velleta

  • Karin
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Once (if) they perk up again, they shouldn't be touching the rim anymore... If they don't, I usually just fit the rim I cut off in along the inside of the pot.

  • susan_kc
    9 years ago

    If you groom the plant, thereby making it smaller, should you pot down? Or will it make up the difference quickly enough that it doesn't matter? Seems potting down would be more disturbance than actually helpful to the plant. I'm looking at some of my plants and they look too small for the pots they're in, but it's because I just removed a row of leaves for the RR. :)

  • fortyseven_gw
    9 years ago

    Hi KCGirl
    When I remove leaves for a donation, I do not repot. Seems that the remaining leaves grow larger in size to compensate. This is a casual observation, not a scientific analysis. Linda or someone with expert knowledge may chime in. Joanne

  • PRO
    Whitelacey
    9 years ago

    Froe,

    If your plant was three times this size until a week ago, it seems as though you are dealing with a rot, probably root rot. This will result in a smaller root ball and then a loss of leaves as the compromised root system cannot support a full compliment of leaves. A plant will give up its older leaves first when it is in a stressful situation in order to preserve the newer, more productive leaves.

    It may be too late for this plant but you can check the root system and cut off any brown, yucky roots, dust with cinnamon, re-pot and hope for the best.

    Usually by the time you have noticed a plant to be affected with a rot it is too late for treatment. Fungus grows by means of a branching structure called 'hyphae'. These structures will already have invaded the plants cells and begun their damage before you notice anything amiss.

    As you have seen from other posts, this winter has played havoc on a lot of our plants and rot is the main problem as we are coming into spring.

    If your pots are too large, you can put a layer of perlite in the bottom and you can poke some holes in the sides where the perlite lies to provide more aeration. There is a whole growing system based on this call "Texas Style" growing.

    Violets are shallow-rooted; they grow in their native environment in thin, rocky soil. If you find you are having lots of trouble with roots rotting and have no shallow pots, using the perlite as a standard routine will be helpful.

    KC,

    You should not be removing so many leaves that you need a pot-down. There is a root-to-top-growth balance that should be maintained. When you groom, try to remove just the outer row of three or so. You will have to do this on a regular basis and not wait until you have nine or ten leaves that need to be removed. (I know; easier said than done!) If you find more than a few need to be removed, do it over a week or two to allow your plant time to keep the balance. Leaving older leaves on a violet won't harm it.

    Linda

  • Karin
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Thanks Linda,

    As I said, I am not expecting this one to make it, though I would like to hope it makes it until the seed pod ripens... (Should only be a few more weeks I hope - pollinated in December). I took enough leaves early on to preserve the variety, though it is a noid, I kind of like it :-)
    Now I 'll be off to check out Texas style growing :-)

    Karin

  • fortyseven_gw
    9 years ago

    Karin, Nice photo of the pots inside each other. Nice photo of the clay color pot cut down to size.
    Great advice from Linda.
    Joanne

  • Karin
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Too late, the bottom on the stem with the seed pod was floppy when I checked this morning.
    Do you think I can ripen it in a glass of water maybe? (Not likely eh?)

    Gah, now it's going to be a year before I get another seed pod on the same variety. I think I have only three left growing, out of more than a dozen. Guess I'll never be a hybridizer :-p

    Karin

  • petrushka (7b)
    9 years ago

    i am always in need of very small pots and i regularly run out of them.
    when i need to pot up in a pinch a very small plant (usually from 3oz drinking tall cup) into 3" pot i just put down a few styrofoam packing pellets on the bottom (hard styro, not foamy soft type) and then tear a piece of paper towel to fit on top and up sides a bit. and then pop in the plant shallowly on top. the papertowel deteriorates fast, but somehow manages to hold the soil together.
    so when the time comes i can pull the plant easily out , refill the bottom with mix and pop it on top.
    i even put some of these half-plants on water-wicks when i had to be away for 2 weeks - and they did not rot.
    but i always cut the av mix with 40-50% perlite to keep it very light.

  • PRO
    Whitelacey
    9 years ago

    Karin,

    I've tried Texas Style once or twice. I really didn't like it much but maybe it was not conducive to my conditions. If you are going to try it, experiment with plants that are duplicates or that you don't mind losing.

    Linda

  • Karin
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Touch wood, I haven't noticed any more rot since that one. I am not sure on the sense of changing what I am doing or not (apart from taping that d***** window shut.)
    I may try Texas style, but I think if anything I ought to try different soil mixes first. 50-50 (perlite - fafard) didn't seem to work this spring. I like mat watering though (yes it's a pest-buffet). I am thinking of changing it to 2-1-1 perlite - vermiculite - fafard with wick to help pull in water and drain excess. See how that does for summer...

    And if I end up decapitating all my pots, well, they are more easily replaced than plants.

    Karin

  • quimoi
    9 years ago

    Novosel Enterprises will send their products to Canada but you may have to pay customs fees. I don't know exactly what that might entail. They do have (nearly) all sizes of pots quite reasonably priced.

    The pot is measured straight across, not at the side, BTW. I use the 3" pots quite a bit before moving them into a 4" pot. A 3-oz. Solo cup (bathroom drinking cup) is comparable to a 2-1/4" round pot. I see that Novosel no longer lists some of the smaller sizes that they had earlier. Perhaps they discontinued them. They still have square ones though that are smaller than the 3" round.

    (I need to order the 4" azalea pots from someone but I also need vermiculite and perlite that is neither too coarse or too fine.)

    http://www.novoselenterprises.com/policies.asp#International%20Orders

    Diana

  • Karin
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Thanks Diana,

    I actually buy my pots at a local nursery, they are quite reasonably priced and always have some other goodies to bring home :-)
    For smaller pots I use 1oz shot glasses from the dollar store and was looking at 2oz ones at the grocery store....
    Reason I went for the square ones was that they are shallower per volume.
    I'll have a look at novosel though :-)

    Karin

  • quimoi
    9 years ago

    1 oz. and 2 oz. is very small. I sometimes use a condiment cup for very tiny babies but unless I am playing with micro-minis, that is too small.

    You can use square pots and I have done it. However, I stopped because the plants seemed to grow somewhat more irregularly than in a round one and it was harder to move them into a round pot. Violet Barn sent me a free standard in a square pot.

    I have a lot of small square pots from Novosel (they look just like everyone else's I think), including a smaller size that isn't made any more. As I noted before, the square ones do hold more soil so you are actually using a "bigger" pot with a 3" square than a 3" round.

    Customs fees might make it impractical to order but it's hard to find the 4" "squatty" pots (azalea) or the 3" round ones. They had the nice small 2'1/4" ones recently but they've vanished.

    Diana

  • Karin
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    1oz containers. Yes, they may need checking more often, bu the size is right for the plants I have here IMO...

  • jujujojo_gw
    9 years ago

    nice.

  • fortyseven_gw
    9 years ago

    This is a great photo, BTW. I love your detailed, artistic photos. J

  • Karin
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Thanks Joanne,

    the quality on the ipod camera just isn't there, but i do try and make photos at least a little appealing :-)

    Karin

  • fortyseven_gw
    9 years ago

    IPod? I have one of those, too, now.
    Diana, thanks for info on where to order the correct size pots.
    joanne

    This post was edited by fortyseven on Fri, May 16, 14 at 3:31

  • lauraeli_
    9 years ago

    This is how i cover the top of my clay pots to prevent petiole rot. It would work to cover sharp edges on your plastic ones, as well. Airline tubing. They sell it at pet stores or at walmart in the fish supplies. Just cut the length you need to go all the way around the rim, then cut the tubing lengthwise so you can slip it over the pot rim.

  • PRO
    Whitelacey
    9 years ago

    Great idea! Is the tubing flexible enough to cover square pots?

    Linda

  • lauraeli_
    9 years ago

    For square pots, it would be easy enough to cut one length of tubing for each side.

Sponsored
DryHome Roofing & Siding, Inc.
Average rating: 5 out of 5 stars82 Reviews
Loudon Co. Roofing, Siding & Exterior Remodeler Best of Houzz 5 times!