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Where to start...

Posted by froeschli 6b (My Page) on
Tue, May 13, 14 at 23:13

It's funny really, I admired Joanne for her interest in "the little guys" - little known hybridizers and sellers. And how she is actually interested in the history etc.
"meh", i thought, I'd just "wing it" and see what grows and what I might stumble across...
Then today, I find myself reading up on Canadian hybridizers. I knew about the Brownlies, of course, seen as they are practically local. And I had added a few of their plants to my shopping list just because I had actually met them once. But I had no idea about how many Canadian hybridizers there were. And how successful some of their creations had become.
Now I am finding myself looking at a plant in more terms than variegation, size and bloom color. I am starting to wonder about the people behind them. I am also looking at the plants I bought hap hazard at the show, and discovering with delight that some of them were hybridized here...

Anyhow, just sharing this new stage of the "addiction" :-)

Next will be targeted shopping to get a few plants from each hybridizer I can find... Uh oh :-p


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Where to start...

Welcome to AV Historyville!
I saw Linda's comment about Silverglades on another thread .. I do know where to buy them ... ! I am trying to resist buying them for now!
:>

This post was edited by fortyseven on Mon, May 19, 14 at 12:16


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RE: Where to start...

You are getting in deeper!

Linda is right about the Silverglades. They aren't something you would find distributed like an Optimara or an Anthoflores. Even if you do know where to buy them, they still aren't widely distributed :). I know Bloomlovers carries them.

Diana


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RE: Where to start...

someone should block bloomlovers on my PC - i already have a huge list of leaves to order there!
looks like the silverglades are all standards though - and for now i am going to stick with semis & minis... plenty of those around as it is :-)

Karin


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RE: Where to start...

This thread is titled Where to Start so this fits right in:
The DH decided this morning on his own, after surveying all my pots that we should grow AV's from seed. I usually grow everything from seed and he asked why I wasn't growing these from seeds.
So, he wants to order seeds. Where is a good source?

Silverglades are beautiful in photos. I see plants and leaves on Ebay.


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RE: Where to start...

Depends on how patient you are!
There are nadeau seeds on eBay and in nadeau's website I believe.
Or you can 'make your own' (6months and counting... I had dozens of seed pods ripening, but am down to three now, the others just shrivelled up and died at various points in development.)


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RE: Where to start...

Park's also carries some african violet seeds. They have half as many in the packets as Nadeaus, but they don't cost as much either.

Mine didn't come up but they were old. I have had them come up in the past. I had new seed but didn't plant it. Honestly, you have to grow out a lot of babies to maybe get a couple of nice ones. Leaves are far more rewarding unless you really want to fiddle with them.

Diana


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RE: Where to start...

See, that depends on what you deem "rewarding".
Sure, growing show worthy plants would be great, but I find growing something from scratch just as interesting.
That's why I am being patient with my seeds. Yeah, for now it's a random noid cross, but I have some named variety leaves now - looking at growing a plant from leaf to bloom, waiting for the seed pod to ripen and then growing the next generation to bloom again - that's as much of an achievement as running a marathon, and probably takes even longer to get there. (Working on both ;-) )


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RE: Where to start...

Diana
I have thought that also, that too many would have to be grown out without any idea of what might be nice enough to keep.
I see Parks has teacup miniatures that might not take up too much space.

I wonder where Park's gets their seeds.
That is hybridizing, isn't it?
Can I name any good ones, saying I get any at all?

This post was edited by lucky123 on Wed, May 14, 14 at 16:33


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RE: Where to start...

AVs have a way of growing on you and leading you to parts unknown. It can be dangerous out there in AV Land! Just ask my husband :)


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RE: Where to start...

Park's used to get their seeds from Nadeaus but Nadeau seems to indicate that they no longer supply them. I don't know. It seems like there wouldn't be a lot of sources.

As to naming them - well, I'm unclear. From what I read on the AVSA site, I would say no. However Nancy Robitaille registered a couple that were grown from Nadeau seeds so maybe there's a loophole there that I missed or maybe the rules were different then. They are Belle Star and Cockleshells.

You can register a sport if it meets the qualifications. I've had a few sports and still have one I didn't murder.

I think the packet I have is the little ones because I was thinking along the same lines :).

Diana


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RE: Where to start...

Unless it were a pure sulfurous yellow I doubt who named or claimed any violet grown from seed would be an issue. Even then...
There aren't any yellow AV's are there?
I am going to do it.
Maybe others on here would want to do it or have done it.


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RE: Where to start...

Lucky,

Crossing plants, even selfing, (crossing a plant onto itself) is hybridizing.

If you grow out a plant that is worth registering, you first must obtain permission to name it from the hybridizer. They are usually quite willing to give it.

The chances for a pure sulfurous yellow on a violet are slim. Violets do not have the genes for yellow color just as marigolds do not have the genes for blue or purple. If there is any yellow coloring in a violet, it is really just an expression of green.

'I just read an article yesterday about someone who grew a Best in Show from Nadeaus's seeds. He named it 'Bob's Puuurty Purple.

Linda


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RE: Where to start...

I was under the impression you could only register a variety if you knew it's parents (who had to be named, if not registered) - originating from a seed pack would eliminate that knowledge....
(?)

Karin


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RE: Where to start...

I am also wondering if Nancy R created her named plants by cross fertilizing. Not just raising straight up seeds.
See, it is so helpful to know the history from those who have been here for a while.
joanne


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RE: Where to start...

Nancy said she grew them from a seed packet. It was either Parks or Nadeau - it might have been Parks instead now that I think it over.

Diana


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RE: Where to start...

I saw seeds for sale out of China, possible source of Parks Seeds although Nadeau states that he still does wholesale and mentions Park, Burpee and others but it may be past tense.


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RE: Where to start...

Karin,

You do not have to know the parents to register a plant. This is partly because when violets first began to be hybridized, records were not kept. Some hybridizers were also quite secretive about which plants they were crossing to get their hybrids.

Violets have been hybridized so extensively that is impossible to know a plant's heritage.

The AVSA asks that a plant be superior to any other that is registered in some way-better foliage, color, etc. but it is really arbitrary and it is up to the hybridizer. Or, in the case of seeds, the grower who must ask permission to register of the hybridizer.

Linda


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RE: Where to start...

That's almost too funny, really, I thought of printing the document with the list of Canadian hybridizers and their creations, and it was some 180 pages long, I think. Now add to that all the other hybridizers, and there is no way anyone could keep up with all the different varieties. (Probably time to get a copy of FC)...

Karin


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RE: Where to start...

Parks once got their seeds from Nadeu -no doubt about that. However, I thought I found something on Nadeau's site that indicated that they no longer sold like that.

I don't know.

Linda,

I must have misinterpreted those rules on the AVSA site. Since I don't have the patience to grow out a bunch of seed packets, it doesn'[t exactly matter :).

Diana


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RE: Where to start...

Karin
I have followed your hybridizing with interest. I was sad when I heard you lost your pods. I do know of one Canadian Hybridizer, Karin Froeschli. I hope the rest make it and produce beautiful and unusual plants!

I found a Chinese wholesaler who has exactly the same pictures and seed packets as Parks. I suspect that means Chinese seed. I am fine with that. China has been producing beautiful flowers and plants for a long, long time.
Russian hybrids and now, Chinese But I may be wrong. It may be Nadeau seeds after all.


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RE: Where to start...


There is a lot on this Forum that will refer you to methods to sew seeds. You will find links with lots of pictures.

The seeds are like dust, you prepare a medium, sew a portion at a time. Then cover with a humidity dome.
The resulting shoots are small.
The seeds are more of the common varieties. The process might be more demanding of good environmental conditions than propagating a leaf.

Perhaps make sure your environment is capable of supporting adult violets.

Joanne

This post was edited by fortyseven on Sun, May 18, 14 at 22:11


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RE: Where to start...

According to AVSA, it appears you have to know the names of both parents, so you can't take generic seeds or use noid parents and hope to register your new plant. Here's what it says on the AVSA site about registering an AV.

http://www.avsa.org/plant-registration

This post was edited by vivey on Fri, May 16, 14 at 11:50


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RE: Where to start...

At one time I grew what were then called mini gloxinias from Park seeds. I think they have been reclassified (not gloxinias) but I enjoyed those and there are some mini sinningias available to grow from seeds if you want to try that.

It seems like you get a lot of single violet ones from the african violet seeds. Maybe the sinningias are equally ordinary sinningias but they would be different to me.

Diana


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RE: Where to start...

Lucky, i am a far, far cry from being a hybridizer. just dabbling really.

as joanne rightly put it, until i have my environment sorted out, there won't be much in ways of growing from seed. well, unless i chance upon some seeds for uber-tough-attitude violets, with one bloom in 20 plants ;-)

i am still waiting to see if i'll get any seed pods to ripen to maturity - pollinating them was the easy bit :-) if this test run turns out anything interesting (or alive, really), i may look at crossing some plants "on purpose".
by then at least another year will have passed, and i may possibly have learned what i am doing....

Karin

PS, vivey, i believe that was the same article that stuck in my mind...


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RE: Where to start...

I found the Post from 2010 by Nancy R. She states that she grew all three of her registered plants from Parks Seeds.

The Chinese seeds are mainland Chinese wholesalers of African violet seeds. Green Gardening Co. Limited.

I saw some beautiful plants from shows in China. I had to search African Violet in Chinese. KeyWord 非洲堇


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RE: Where to start...

Karin,

Uber-tough would be a great niche for violets. You would be the next Optimara! Go for it!

Linda


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RE: Where to start...

Once upon a time, Nadeau did offer seeds of specific crosses. I think that was in the 70's or 80's. Wouldn't that be nice now?

There are probably some plants registered from those seeds.

The last ones I sowed (that were fresh), I just sowed and some came up and then I think I dumped the dish or something. They are just fine seeds.

Diana


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RE: Where to start...

Oh, are there yellow violets? Well, not really like there are yellow marigolds. There are violets that are supposed to have some yellow and perhaps they do when grown under the right conditions. I've never gone chasing them.

My understanding is that the best of them is not very yellow but they keep trying. Ma's Ching Dynasty is supposed to have some yellow, Lacey's Determination, a couple of AJohn's, there's a Pitman or two, another Lyon's, a Senk's or two.

Here's a thread:

http://violetvoice.yuku.com/topic/3285/Your-Favorite-Yellow-Violet

I grow marigolds and yellow petunias.

Diana


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RE: Where to start...

Sunkissed Rose


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RE: Where to start...

Golden Eye


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RE: Where to start...

Official, In Writing Statement from Park Seeds
Fantasy Mix African Violet Seeds Country of Origin USA

I was wrong. I saw the Chinese Co. using the same pictures/Names/ Descriptions and assumed that those were the same as Park Seed


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RE: Where to start...

They are not fantasy, such as speckled two color. They are solid colors in light blue, pink, purple. J


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RE: Where to start...

Joanne
It is US seed. I was wrong about China.
I know it states those colors and Bi-color so a percentage will be Bi-Color, Nothing very fancy and certainly not "Fantasy" like Rob's Splatter Kake.
Still there is always the chance of that one mutant or unusual plant.
Takes much space and time though with no assurance of any good result


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RE: Where to start...

Yes, because the name is Fantasy, it might lead people to think they are getting fantasy violets, which are speckled.


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RE: Where to start...

If the seeds are Nadeau through Parks, the mix is probably as the site state, all the colors, including bi-color, single semi-dbl and dbl, so a certain percentage of the fancier leaves and flower types

I have purchased geranium and begonia seed from Parks. I had a very high germination rate and the plants are exceptional.

However there are three outcomes from growing a pack of AV seeds 1) no seedlings germinate or grow 2) some germinate/grow, all plain 3) 100% germination rate and successful grow, mostly plain and then what to do with all those plants.

The really successful outcome in the perfect world, would be about 10 to 20 seedlings, each one a stunning mutation. That is the dream. The reality, any of three listed above, is more likely and that is something to consider.


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Seems people get hundreds!


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RE: Where to start...

I have felt that Parks were Nadeau seeds, but I thought that Nadeau's website indicated that they didn't sell to them any more. I found the sentence and I think it doesn't actually say that. Here is that section (out of their history and out of context somewhat...)

"We added a wholesale division and sold our seeds to Park Seeds, Burpee Seeds, Sakata Seeds (Japan), and Thompson & Morgan Seeds (England). In 1988, our cherished child, Lisa, was born. We decided to down-scale Nadeau Seeds to wholesale only, and the wholesale business continues to the present."

It was that past tense "sold" that confused me, but I guess they continue to sell wholesale to somebody :)

As I said before, if you buy from Nadeau, you get twice as many seeds as from Parks but it's about twice the price too. Either way, there's a lot of baby potential there.

If you have the patience, time and space, it can be fun. The odds of getting anything worth keeping aren't really that good.

Yes, my seed packet says Seed Origin: USA too. Could have cleared that up earlier. There are supposed to be 50 seeds in it, but I'd guess nobody can really count.

I had more than 10 petunias.because I think I left 4 and got 7 plants. Every Merlin blue Morn petunia I planted must have come up (50/pk, didn't plant all) but my Disco marigolds didn't come up at all. You may get 5000 of some nicotianas in a pkg. Oh - the petunias are at least blooming, lol.

Diana


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RE: Where to start...

Lucky,

I searched using your keyword and all I got was more Chinese. Do you have any web addresses?

Linda


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RE: Where to start...

Linda
I found a Chinese show and hybridizer just clicking on the "more Chinese." Can't find that particular link today but here is an interesting web site in Chinese and English

http://avahk.com.hk/avahkenglish/index.html

I posted the name of the Seed Wholesaler "Green Gardening Company Limited" I don't trust the site and don't want to post a link. The site does use the same photos or very similar to Parks Seed. Maybe reselling Parks Seeds. USA sold through China to USA. That would be a new twist


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RE: Where to start...

Hi, Karin, An advantage you have over many on the Forum is your access to Canadian hybridizers that is not as easy for those of us in the U.S. When I entered stage two, as you phrased it, I had the same question. How do I choose? How do others choose? Gradually, over a few years of experimenting, I decided what I like best. I sampled a few different hybridizers. I did not go too wild. Hope this helps. Joanne


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RE: Where to start...

Hi, I have purchased geranium and begonia seed from Parks. I had a very high germination rate and the plants are exceptional. Thankyou gardenweb :)


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RE: Where to start...

Karin.
You got me thinkin'
Sorted Environment? I have two plants that have grown and bloomed in my "unsorted environment."
I think I am going to cross those two plants, not looking for pretty but looking for a tough little AV that thrive in my unsorted environment
But, if I succeed, do I register the offspring as AV's or a new kind of Cacti :)
I have sorted my environment so any AV's henceforth will be "sorted environment" specimens.

This post was edited by lucky123 on Thu, May 22, 14 at 11:32


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Lol lucky,
Call it "lucky's survivor" ;-) new breed of succulent.


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RE: Where to start...

Lucky, Update on seeds. If you do a search using the word Nadeau, you should come up with at least two threads. One is called"source for
seeds." Here is a discussion about Nadeau seeds. In the July issue if the AV magazine, an article by Ron Nadeau discusses how they breed their seeds.
Joanne

This post was edited by fortyseven on Wed, May 28, 14 at 22:44


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