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begonia2005

Clueless - need help with grow lights

Begonia2005
11 years ago

Based on the information I received in a previous thread I(the one about achieving results like I see at Pikes), as well as more reading about AV in general, I concluded that it is time to get a light fixture. It is now clear to me that no AV will bloom at the levels I was initially expecting just by sitting on my window sill; especially not now, in the cooler seasons.

As I showed in that thread, I did buy a decorative lamp with a phosphorescent light bulb ...but at the end of the day, this is just one lamp with one bulb and basically only one plant fits under it at one time. Never mind that bulb is a regular, CFL bulb, nothing "wide spectrum".

I don't intend to grow more than 6-8 AV-s at one time but it certainly bothers me to know most of my violets will just sit there without light (and without the slightest intention to bloom, most of the times), while only one plant receives supplemental light during the day.

I know I could rotate but one little lamp with only one slot under it - is simply not enough.

That being said, I ordered that 10$ or so grow stick from WallMart, which everyone seems to rave about in terms of quality/cost ratio...only to realize that this is just a long tube, not a light fixture. Given I couldn't have that tube just hang in the air above my plants and I also have no fixture/place to mount it in, I returned it.

I finally realized I need something else...that is, the WHOLE set-up. Irina mentioned in that thread these "cute but overpriced" table tops (below). Given I will have 6-8 plants (I am trying to root a couple of leaves), is this the kind of product I should get?

If yes, would I be able to find anything similar at a better price?

I have tried to go to an actual indoor gardening store to check out options in person, but there appears to be nothing like this around here, where I live. I have Big Box stores, Pikes, but no store that would carry this type of table-top fixtures.

The one with the wide spectrum tube in the link provided sounds appealing, given the requirements for different types/colors of light. (It'd better be at 85$).

Any recommendations for a grow lights fixture or set-up would be appreciated. Again, I have no intention to start growing tons of plants on those big 3-shelved stands. I just need to have these 6-8 decorative plants bloom their heads off.

http://indoorgardensupplies.com/?product_cat=table-top-fixtures

Comments (28)

  • tommyr_gw Zone 6
    11 years ago

    A standard 4 foot "Shop light" at your local Home Depot or Lowes will do the job. They are CHEAP! Replace the tubes once a year. Place them about 8 inches over your plants for about 10 hours a day.

  • aviolet6
    11 years ago

    Hi Begonia,

    I use the $10 24" flourescent grow light Wal-Mart offers. (see picture - not nearly as dim as it looks on plants there - just photo light issue) I did have other brighter plant stand lights but they were all too bright and burned my plants. I like this one because it is less bright and has the plastic cover over it which I think makes it less intense.

  • aviolet6
    11 years ago

    hope the picture shows this time.

  • Begonia2005
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    Thank you, aviolet and tommyr!

    I have seen these standard "shop lights". My question is: what would I hang such a thing on, where would I mount it?
    I do not use a typical flower stand with a "ceiling".
    I have my violets on a runner/long-and-narrow table along my baywindown, and a few others on a small corner stand.

    I simply don't have anything to mount this kind of "shop lights" lights on. This is why I thought of a table top like the one in that original link; because it comes with the mounting too.

  • Begonia2005
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    aviolet,

    How do you make that tube hang over your plants? Obviously, these tubes must be mounted onto something, right?

  • aviolet6
    11 years ago

    Yes, I've tried several different things. If you will email me I will send you more and better pictures and info on what has worked for me. It's easier for me to send them by email than trying to post them on here. Especially when taken on my cell phone : )

  • GCTBA
    11 years ago

    Hi Begonia - Do a Google on Indoor plant grow light stands.
    You may not want to build your own but the examples shown will give you lots of ideas of what to look for and more importantly what might look good in your place.
    A lot of the stands pictured can be knocked up in a couple of hours.
    Good luck and keep us posted !

    Andrew

  • mrlike2u
    11 years ago

    Smaller in size

    When you get there you'll also see bigger ones at higher prices

    Lighting can be VERY easily mounted with VERY affordable additional hardware Best mounting place the under side of adjustable height shelves.

  • Begonia2005
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    mrlike2u,

    Actually I have a stand like this at home. I keep it on the deck outside with a few geranium pots on it. I suppose I could use it, I just don't understand how to mount the grow light stick on it. (???) Maybe I should get one of those Walmart grow sticks after all and try to hang it on the upper part of one of the shelves. ???

    But the stand would be too much of an eye sore to keep in any room. It's just too big. It seems to me this is a piece made for a space like basement (do not have one) or a garage (they would freeze there).
    The few violets I have must stay in the house and in a nice little spot, because they are just decorative.

    I might just put one of those small table top fixtures in my Christmas list.

    Then again, how long after an AV has been place under flurorescent light and given enough hours of light everfy day ...should start coming up with quite a few buds?
    It's been about 3 weeks since I bought my desk lamp with a fluorescent bulb and have had a couple of violets under it. Neither is showing any buds yet.

  • aegis1000
    11 years ago

    Begonia2005 ...

    You should be able to light maybe (6) AV's with just a couple of the lamps you are already using.

    The kind of blooming you had on your plant when you just got it was, likely, artificially induced by fairly expert commercial AV growers.

    To get that type of bloom, you have to get everything right, ... and most plants will need a rest after that type of blooming.

    What I have found in years of growing is that you might get bloom like what you had maybe once a year, while in the in-between times, you'll get somewhat less.

    Blooming takes a lot of energy for a plant, and after a farily full bloom, the plant will have to do some catching up.

    My collection of plants just went through a period of intense blooming. Now the blooming has died down, and I'm concentrating on building back my plants' strength for the next period of bloom.

    Having a few more plants (4-6) will help to insure that you always have some bloom, though not from all of your plants at once.

    In the meantime, if you keep your plants well-lighted, watered, and fed properly ... you should, eventually begain to see signs (buds) for your next bloom.

    P.S. I have also found that certain of the AV's I've grown are more LIKELY to remain in bloom than others.

    Some of my best performers are ...

    Private Dancer (double blue-violet w/variegated leaves)
    Pink Summit (bright pink pansy bloom with a white edge)
    Faded Denim (pale violet blue semi-double bloom)
    Perfect Harmony (medium violet star with a white edge)
    Sparkleberry (nice semi-double red with white markings)
    Caribbean Blue (medium violet-blue double with a white edge)

    All of these are available at Lyndon Lyon Greenhouses, Inc.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Lyndon Lyon Greenhouses, Inc.

  • Begonia2005
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    Hi again everyone who so kindly helped so far,

    I am hoping I will get over this moment where I am about to throw my hands up in the air and give up. A nice AV I have had for no longer than a month...and that looked very good until recently, developed a limp stalk a few days ago and since then, a new one went limp every day.
    This happened after the plant has been sitting under a CFL bulb (26W) for a few weeks now. At some point, I got the lamp a bit closer to the plant than the recommended 8 inches...but that was because the light at the level of the plant did not register more than 400 footcandles...and having read that the AV-s need more than that for good blooming, I lowered the lamp on the plant even more. Does it mean I ended up burning the plant/giving it too much light?
    The limp leaves did not bend downwards in a wilty way, as they do when they are thirsty. The leaf was just limp at the base, where the petiole meets the potting mixture...and it just sit there, lifeless, touching the pot rim. The leaf itself did not seem affected - only the petiole at the lower end, where it looked darker and softer than the rest of the petiole. I have included a picture for you to see how the leaf looked like.

    When I saw another leaf today going the same route, I took the plant out to look at the roots. I have no idea whether they looked OK or not, but I included another picture below.

    At this point, I have no idea how much light these AV-s actually need or what I have done wring again. This time it coud not have been over-watering or over-potting as I have been very careful with these aspects since I got this plant.

    On a different note, I was finally able to get a grow light tube from WallMart (the 10$ one everyone seems to be so pleased with) - and I mounted it on a shelved stand I had before. What I know now, making the comparison, is that my CFL bulb under which this unfortunate plant has been sitting, is clearly brighter than this grow tube from WallMart.

    So do you think I may have messed up the plant by forcing too much light on it / setting the bulb too close above the plant? At this point, after having tried to make sure all factors were taken care of, including adequate light...I feel really helpless.

    More Pictures below...

  • Begonia2005
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    The limp leaf (several ended up with this fate, one day after another). The rest of the plant looked fine and strong. But one by one, these leaves almost fell off by getting soft at the lower end, where the petiole meets the potting mixture.

  • Begonia2005
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    What the roots looked like when I took the plant out of the potting mixture. Have no clue whether there is any sign of root rot.

  • Begonia2005
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    The stand with the new 10$ Grow Light tube from WallMart.
    With this one, I cannot have the plants any further away than 6-7 inches below the tube.
    However, the tube does not seem as bright compared to the CFL bulb I had my unfortunate plant under.

  • aegis1000
    11 years ago

    First things first ...

    Wilting leaves on an African Violet DO NOT indicate a problem with LIGHTING.

    LIGHTING problems will cause variations in foliage (leaf) GROWTH, not wilting.

    Too much light can cause leaves to blanch (fade) or become crowded together, while not enough light will cause leaves to stretch up (toward the light).

    Leaf wilting is NOT a LIGHTING issue.

    It very well may be that you donâÂÂt have any problem at all with your plants. BTW ... your depotted plant looks perfectly fine. I would advise to take the plastic wrap off the one you show in the pot.

    AVâÂÂs will lose leaves (especially around their outer perimeter) periodically for several reasons. As leaves grow old, they will, eventually, wilt and drop off. As long as your plant is growing, this is normal. Other reasons could be mechanical damage (tears, scratches, stress) to the leaf or itâÂÂs leaf-stalk. Also, fertilizer salt build-up along the edge of a pot upon which a leaf-stalk rests can cause a leaf stalk to wilt the way you show.

    Recent handling of a plant (repotting, cleaning, etc.) can also cause some leaf loss.

    Typical periodic grooming of AVâÂÂs almost always includes the removal of leaves which have wilted.

    The only time I will become concerned about leaf loss is when a plant is losing leaves so rapidly that it appears that the plant will soon become leaf-less. This is a major issue, but is typically not one that you can retroactively solve.

    Your plants will thrive once you have provided them with an environment adequate for their needs. At that point, you will need to let them sit and adjust to their new environment. Sometimes the adjustment can take a few months. Too much handling will not be positive for them.

    In summary, mastering the following will lead to successful growing.

    Proper Watering ��" will keep your plants alive
    Proper Lighting ��" will keep your plants blooming.
    Proper Potting/Soil ��" will help to keep your plants healthy.
    Proper Fertilization ��" will keep your plants growing.
    Protection from pests/disease ��" will keep your plants alive and healthy and beautiful.

    Finally, the true health of a typical AV will be measured over months of time, ... not days.

    If your plants are less than a month in your environment, and you want bloom, you will have to ACQUIRE additional plants.

  • Begonia2005
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    aegis,

    This is what I thought too: that the symptoms of too much light would look different (though I am not sure whether symptoms of too much light are the same thing as symptoms of too much heat).

    But I simply cannot find any other explanation for the sudden demise of those leaves. It was not something gradual. I would simply find one resting lifeless on the pot rim, although it DID NOT have a wilted, curbing down look, like it happens when the plant is thirsty or may be suffering from root rot. It simply looked darker and a bit soft and rotted at the lower part of the stem/ petiole.
    Then another one would get like this the next day.

    I did think that those might just have been lower-level older leaves whose time was up...but the demise was too abrupt, and they went one by one. One day they would look strong and vigorous and the next day they were limp.
    This was very odd.

    The light part is still not clear to me, but I will open another thread with a more specific question.

    Thank you so much!

  • aegis1000
    11 years ago

    Fluorescent bulbs don't produce much heat. A leaf would have to be right up against it to get burned.

    If I was seeing leaves dropping daily, I would hold back on watering to try and stop the wilting. Sometimes you can stop it, ... and sometimes you can't.

    The only I know of that might cause this is too warm a house temperature.

    I lost a plant this summer which died in the same way.

    But I've had plenty of other plants which have flourished under my care.

    Some AV's are harder to grow than others. And some AV's do better in different environments than what we have.

  • Begonia2005
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    Well...this is why I ordered four more. (Ooops - Guilty face).
    I realized some of them will simply not perform and I will eventually have to eliminate them. Now that I figured out the stand and the fluorescent tube, I have space for a few more. Hopefully, 2 will always be in bloom to decorate my living room table against the Bay window.
    I have only had 6 so far, but out of these 6...two of them seem as if they will never bloom or look good again. OI might toss them soon.
    They were the ones might husband tended to over-water over the summer when I was away, they were over-potted at the time, and he also failed to fertilize for 2-3 months in a row.

    They haven't bloomed in almost half a year now, the plants seem stunted (remained small) even though it's been 2 months since I fixed the problems they faced over the summer; the leaves are quite hairy, small and curled inwards. I will keep them around just to see the evolution in time...but I am ready to move on.

    Si I placed my first order ever for 4 AV-s from an online store (Lyndon Lyon). So far, all of my AV-s came from either the grocery store or Pikes - and they were all pretty usual/basic. I have seen some really gorgeous cultivars on LL so I finally indulged and ordered four (Witch Doctor, Timeless Memory, Red Summit and Live Wire)..

    Hopefully I will always have one in bloom out of 10 now.
    I absolutely adore the AV blooms but it frustrates me to see that all I manage to do is have some green leaves just sitting there. :-)

    As for what aegis said earlier...

    ...

    This is why I asked that question in my other thread. Do many people actually manage to get "everything right" at home and get blooms like those artificially induced by stores? When I first got into AV-s, I was hoping I would be able to maintain lots of blooms at home...enough to make a little substantial bouquet with them (not a sporadic flower once every 3 months).

    But then people suggested that if I want something like this, that means I want a show-worthy AV...which is apparently not easy to pull off.

    Will keep trying. :-)

  • aegis1000
    11 years ago

    Begonia ...

    Once you get going well, you should be able to keep about half of your plants in bloom at any given time.

    All of the blooming won't be show-stopping, but you can achieve breathtaking bloom 2 or 3 times a year with some AV varieties.

    Of course, one of the other advantages of growing African Violets is that their blooming periods can last for months at a time.

    Below are some examples of what I've been able to achieve with window light supplemented with CFL fluorescents in standard lamp fixtures.

    None of these came to me in bloom. They came into bloom under my care (and I'm just a casual grower) ...

    {{gwi:373948}}
    Private Dancer, Caribbean Blue, and Pink Summit

    {{gwi:374039}}
    Red Lantern

    {{gwi:374041}}
    Blue Dragon

    {{gwi:374044}}
    Sea Drift

    {{gwi:374045}}
    Caribbean Blue

    {{gwi:373946}}
    Private Dancer

    {{gwi:374047}}
    Perfect Harmony

    {{gwi:359878}}
    Pink Summit

    {{gwi:374050}}
    Hiroshige

    {{gwi:374052}}
    Faded Denim

    {{gwi:374054}}
    Bob Serbin

  • Begonia2005
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    Aegis,
    Let's just say that if I achieved what you show here I would be ecstatic.

  • aegis1000
    11 years ago

    It's very doable ...

    You just have to get the hang of it ...

    P.S. When you get your Lyon's order, I would suggest not repotting for awhile, as his soil mix is usually pretty good.

    Likewise, hold back on fertilization for, say, a month, as Lyon's has had them on a good fertilization program.

    Lyon's starter plants will, typically, bloom in the first month or so if they are exposed to sufficient light (and I believe that your setup should do that).

    After the initial blooms fade, then begin to think of beginning fertilization, and when the plants are getting too big for their starter pots, repot them into a size larger (3").

    You should be able to find 3" pots on either ebay ... or another online AV grower and seller, Bluebird Greenhouses.

    Just note that when you repot your plants into bigger pots, the first thing that the plants want to do is to fill the pot with roots. In the meantime, they will not be blooming. So you might not want to repot all of your AV's at the same time. Stagger it (say, as they individually achieve sufficient size to repot), so that you can always have some blooming.

  • Begonia2005
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    Well...I do have a few very tiny buds popping up from under...so I am keeping my fingers crossed for these two plants that show some promise. One was the big blue one I had posted some pictures of in the previous threads (don't know what the cultivar is called). It looks like it is resuming its flowering very soon after that mass of blooms, artificially induced by the store...was gone.

    I admit I am really excited about the Lyndon Lyon order and will follow all suggestions to a T. Thank you, aegis!

  • Begonia2005
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    Oh...I think my big AV with lots of blue flowers from the store (gone now) might be Private Dancer. Really beautiful.

  • jshwartzer
    11 years ago

    Cool link for building a nice light stand:

    Here is a link that might be useful: Lighted Plant Stand

  • erikakeele
    7 years ago

    Begonia, your plant stand looks identical to what I have... I also purchased 10.00 grow lights from walmarts. However I have moved and in a new home with low lighting therefore I have just about lost all 20 of my african violets . I think they went through a lot of shock do to the move and etc. I want to start all over, but is there better lights I need to purchase? Help!!

  • aegis1000
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    erikakeele ...

    My thoughts ...

    Light is not a critical feature in just keeping your plants alive.

    If you lost ALL of 20 violets, ... something other than lack of light is at fault.

    African Violets can survive lack of light for months (though they won't bloom without light).

    Given that you've just moved, ... I would check out your new water source for Chloramines ... which can be deadly for African Violets.

    But to lose 20 plants at a shot ... indicates some traumatic shock/event ... like being left in a hot car too long. It's just not common that, all other things being equal, that you would lose 20 plants to an environmental issue (other than temperature).

    I'm so sorry that you lost your plants. Perhaps, though, you can look forward to repopulating your collection this coming fall.

    Check out your new home's environment. Are there no prominent East, South, or West windows where your violets might get more light ? If not, it is likely that a fluorescent light setup similar to what Begonia shows above ... would be adequate to provide light for about 3-4 plants. If you want to adequately light 20 plants, ... you would either need 5 similar setups, ... or a more traditional indoor plant light stand ... which can be pretty pricey.

    FWIW, I light all of my 100 or so African Violets with a combination of window light ... and light from around 20 inexpensive lamps (desk lamps, clip-ons, floor lamps, etc.) in which I utilize the new CFL fluorescent bulbs. These work great for me ... and work out to around (5) plants per lamp (but that includes indirect window light, as well).

  • Rosie1949
    7 years ago

    I agree,,,,the light fixture was not responsible for the death of 20 plants. When I grew bunches and boatloads of violets, I just used the cheapest 4 foot light fixture w/lights I could find. Worked great!

    Check out your water source. I can't think of any other reason all 20 plants would die.

    I am very sorry for your loss, I know what it feels like to lose all of them at one time. Rosie

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