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riptidefrog

New to AVs, New Growth Question

riptidefrog
9 years ago

This is my second posting, I had issues. I hope this wont be a double post.

Hi, I've been around Garden Web for a few years and have lurked on the AV forum but this is my first post and also the first time i have tried growing African Violets. I have some questions about the new growth I'm seeing and I'm hoping someone here might be able to shed some light on the subject.

About 2 weeks ago I rescued an African Violet from Walmart. The plant looked very dry, slight limp, had a few suckers and some dried leaves and flowers.

I removed the spent flowers, leaves and suckers, one of which is rooting in a shot glass with a bit of water.

The plant perked up after a good deep drink and has been responding well since then, sending out a flush of new leaves.

These new leaves are coming in looking a bit different than the older ones. These leaves have darker, reddened patches one some young leaves and even more of this coloring on the youngest.

I have researched leaf birthmarks on the web and looked at the pictures. Some of these birthmarks have a sharp border between the birthmark and the normal leaf coloring and others have a more diffuse border.

I've read that birthmarks can mean that the plant is sporting or that the growing conditions have changed. I should say that the rooting sucker is on the same windowsill as the main plant and is growing in with regular green leaves. The shot glass that it's in is frosted and the plant is mostly tucked inside so i suppose its growing conditions are somewhat different.

Looking at my plant I cant decide if I'm seeing birthmarks or if its just the change in conditions that have changed this new growth.

Another change I'm seeing is that the new growth is tighter at the growing point.

I've also read that this can be a sign of too much sun or possibly an insect infestation or plant disease.

The plant seems otherwise healthy and without problems.

The plant sits in a west facing apartment window but gets probably less than an hour of direct sunlight due to a carport that is directly outside.

It might be too soon to tell but can anyone tell me if they think I'm looking at normal new growth or if they think the plant might be sporting?

Also, do you think the plant is getting too much light or am i seeing crowded growth because the plant is growing rapidly?

Thanks for your time and consideration.

P.S. the soil looks wet because I had just watered before taking the picture.

Comments (23)

  • Karin
    9 years ago

    The plant doesn't look all that bad. The different colouring could just be a reaction to the extra light (fat chance it got much light at the store). Keep an eye out for anything that looks "burnt" as any direct sunlight can be too much for an av- depending on the intensity. It can take a while to show, and then suddenly it sports crispy brown spots.... Would explain the tight centre though.

    Be careful with watering, of course (I've rotted enough plants in the peat mix they came in, I now just chop off the crown and re-root).

    Depending on which variety it is, it may be prone to birthmarkig - but I don't really see it in the photo.

    Good luck and enjoy!

    Karin

  • riptidefrog
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Thanks for the prompt reply

    Nice to know that someone with experience thinks the plant looks decent.

    I was kind of hoping for birthmarking even though i read it doesnt happen that often. i thought it would be interesting to see how different the sucker turns out compared to the mother plant. But I'm really just happy the plant is doing well.

  • Karin
    9 years ago

    i wouldn't say i have a lot of experience, just killed enough of them to figure out what doesn't work for me ;-)

    as for birthmarking - i have one that is doing it for sure, and it's offspring are truly a mottled bunch - fun to watch :-) and i am curiously waiting to see what kind of blossoms they will sport (pun almost intended)

    Karin

  • judyj
    9 years ago

    Karin,
    I have a conceptual idea of birth marking as turning back into the original parent, but may be that just applies to Chimeras? Though I did read up on one of the other forums-at least read through some posts, I'm not sure I've quite got it. Some of the pictures of birth marking violets on those posts look quite cool, really, but other pictures looked like the violet was droopy, if not flat out dying.

    What causes this?

    Thanks-
    Judy

  • Karin
    9 years ago

    Judy,

    I am no expert on this, but i am getting the impression you are mixing up "birthmarking", "sporting" and "reverting".

    From the Optimara violet Glossary:

    Sport: Also called mutant. A spontaneous mutation. An African Violet which has physical characteristics that are markedly different from its parent plant.

    I can't find it right now to quote, but if i remember rightly, birthmarking is caused by the gene for red-backed leaves turning on and off spontaneously / in patches.

    I ASSUME birthmarking is sporting in a way, but because it has a more or less defined "look", and is not likely ever going to be quite stable, it is called birthmarking.

    With chimeras, you are actually talking about "reverting" when they turn back into one of their parents. But, since it is hard to tell, whether it is genetically the same as the actual parent or just a sport, again you're left hanging.

    I don't believe birthmarking has any effect on the viability of the plant, unless it was caused by an environmental stress to begin with...

    in any case, have you asked the owners if they purposefully neglected the now "ugly" plants? ;-P

    Many people will tell you to take a clean green leaf and try raise a new plant without birthmarks. How successful you'll be... well that is another experiment :-)

    Karin

  • riptidefrog
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Ah. I was operating under the impression that sporting could happen without birthmarking or with it but that when birthmarks are present the plant is sporting.

    I see the distinction now. The red of birthmarking could be said to be sporting but the other characteristics of the plant like leaf size/shape and flower color may remain the same. In this case the plant would be said to have birthmarked but not sported.

    And if the flowers or other growth characteristics change regardless of the presence of birthmarks then the plant has sported.

    Is this thinking correct?

    I have not researched this at all. I'v only been learning by context when searching through blogs.

  • riptidefrog
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    And Karin, i very much appreciate the sport pun. TeeHee. ;)

    Kerry

  • riptidefrog
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Um, another question. Kept meaning to ask before but forgot.

    Any idea as to when the plant might flower?

    This is all new to me and looking at the internet does not really give me an idea. I'm not even sure if this will turn out to be a standard sized plant. Also I'm really excited to see the blooms. the old blooms at the store were all brown when i got it so i have no idea what color it will be.

  • sueok_gw
    9 years ago

    Hi Kerry.
    I'm not an expert here, but I want to welcome you to the forum and say I think your plant looks very nice. I've bought a few like it through the years, and they usually flower within a few weeks of purchase, I think. It seems like you are absorbing some knowledge that will help you in your av experience. I hope you enjoy it!
    Sue

  • Karin
    9 years ago

    When they'll bloom next can be quite arbitrary. I've had some bounce back and throw out buds before even being rooted properly, others I had for years before they decided to re-bloom. All depends on how good your growing conditions are... In 'normal' conditions, I would estimate a month or two.

    There is a section in the FAQ on what you can do if they don't bloom, but in your case, just let it develop a bunch of new leaves before worrying about a lack of flowers.

    Patience ;-)

    Karin

  • riptidefrog
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Thanks Ladies. I can wait for the blooms but I am hoping it will bloom soon.

    You see, after buying this and having some success with it I have also bought another AV from a nearby greenhouse/garden center. This plant has Tommie Lou variegation and I think double star pink flowers with just a touch of darker shading to them making it look almost antique to me. Nice looking plant if a bit ultra feminine for this man. LOL

    Now that I've started with AVs I think I'd like to try my hand at pollination and growing from seed. I need something exciting and plant based to get me through the winter this year.

    Of course I could pollinate the newer plant with its own pollen however I think I like the leaf shape of my first plant more. But then I am unsure if the formation of seed would cause flower production to stop. Then I'd be unable to cross my plants.

    At this point I am unable to determine how long a flowering period usually lasts for a plant, surely a few weeks at least. But I have yet to come across a site that gives a good approximation.

    I know, I'm probably getting way ahead of myself. But I have to say that I've always loved plants, inside and out, and I'd always thought AVs to be boring. Now, giving AVs a chance I'm astounded by the depth and variety this plant has to offer. Very exciting.

    Thanks
    Kerry

    This post was edited by riptidefrog on Sun, Sep 21, 14 at 17:26

  • fortyseven_gw
    9 years ago

    RTF, Karin is the expert on this forum. Refer to her threads on the topic.

  • judyj
    9 years ago

    Hi Kerry,
    Before you start hybridizing, you might want to consider if you're hoping to obtain something in particular! If this is the case, then you might want to pick out and grow two or three named varieties before you start-so you really understand their growth habits and coloring.

    Of course, if you're just hoping to get some seeds (which is really cool!), then run right ahead! :-) I'd love to see how it comes out!

    Karin's got a wonderful chronological (with pix!) post on her seeds and seedlings you might wish to look at!

    Best,
    Judy

  • Karin
    9 years ago

    Grrrr, i thought i had replied to this at length, and now it isn't here....

    Firstly, if you just want practise, go ahead and pollinate something! it will take upwards of 4-6 months for a seed pod to ripen, so if you are looking for a winter project, you may have to mail order some seeds....

    You can keep pollen in the fridge (or so i've read) but in your case, i am not sure it would make sense, because, as i understand it, in order for variegation to be passed on, it has to be present in the seed parent. (google jeff smith and hybridizing for his chart on dominant-recessive traits). If you're not as crazy about variegation as i am, just save some pollen in the fridge and wait for your other plant to bloom.

    If you want both your plants to bloom at roughly the same time, you could disbud the one currently in bloom, until you see buds coming up on the other one as well. not as much fun, but probably the safest bet.

    I've tried pollinating a bunch of my new plants, and they didn't take as readily as the supermarket NOIDs i used on my first experiment. It could be a lack of humidity, or that they are still suffering from the pesticide treatment they got a little while ago.
    I will keep trying, but am not in too much of a hurry to have another few hundred seedlings to try and place.... I know i am not too serious about hybridizing, because i just kind of look at two very different plants, and am curious of what the offspring will look like. the "serious" hybridizers, decide what their cross should look like and then plan beforehand.

    good luck & have fun!

    Karin

  • riptidefrog
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Thanks for the excellent advice everyone.

    I had read somewhere about the seed mother being the the most likely parent to pass on the variegation, and was hoping to have the newer variegated plant be the "mother".

    But you mention the time it takes for seed to ripen and I realize that means a few things. It will likely be late winter or early spring before i have seed, if it is viable. And thats only if I disbud, and then only if both plants will flower at the same time, and thats if I like the flower type of my first plant. And of course the cross has to take and survive until maturity. And so on.

    So I think I have decided to make myself a drink (thankfully not on call tonight), maybe play some Marvin Gaye, and attempt to facilitate a little self-pollination in my newer plant. Just kidding. I suppose, given the timescales involved, if I am successful by this time next year I may be waiting on seeds from offspring crosses from that plant. Perhaps.

    I'm far too new to this to begin trying to create a certain type of plant in my opinion. That might lead to frustration. Instead I'd rather make a cross and see what interesting things pop up and then meddle with genetics from there.

    That being said, maybe it is better to purchase some seeds and do some learning on seeds and seedlings that i have not invested what will amount to a great deal of time and possibly emotion.

    I have really only seen plants for sale and only a few mentions of seeds for sale. Can anyone recommend a reputable place or internet site to buy some seeds?

    Thanks, I know this is now far off topic from the first post and I appreciate the time you have all taken to help me.

    Kerry

  • Karin
    9 years ago

    I've heard good things about nadeau seeds, and apparently parks carries some av seeds as well (rumour is, they are supplied by nadeau).

    Which reminds me, I have some "premies" (2-Month) seed pods I need to try and plant...

    Karin

  • Karin
    9 years ago

    Ok, premies are planted. Cross your fingers (and toes)!

    Attached: these are seedlings from a pod I pollinated last Christmas:

  • judyj
    9 years ago

    Well, Karin, these seem to be doing quite spectacularly! :-) Congratulations, Mom!

    Best,
    Judy

  • fortyseven_gw
    9 years ago

    Karin
    Very nice progress. Perhaps start a new thread, "Karin's Hybrids" for us to more easily track your progress. Exciting update! Joanne

  • riptidefrog
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    I'll give a second to that notion. "Karin's Hybrids" would be a great addition to the forum.

  • cdnanon
    9 years ago

    Glad to see the babies are coming along so well! :D

  • riptidefrog
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Well, for those of you who are interested here is an update photo. Its growing well and now I'm even seeing very tiny flowers forming under some leaves just around the crown. :D

    I can't say how the others here feel but I really like seeing updates or progression photos. It's so satisfying regardless of the outcome.

  • judyj
    9 years ago

    It looks great, Kerry! You're obviously doing the right thing! Can't wait until it blooms and you show us!

    Best,
    Judy