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winemaker1942

'Pearlzwiebel'- Allium ampeloprasum

winemaker1942
18 years ago

Has anyone ever heard of or know source for Pearlzwiebel..

Sometimes it also sold as Multiplier Leek/Argentine Garlic..

Allium Ampeloprasum (Ampeloprasum Group)Pearlzwiebel is what I'm after.

Comments (32)

  • gardenlad
    18 years ago

    I used to grow it, from samples originally given me by John Swenson. Unfortunately, I don't know any sources for it. When I decided to stop growing it I offered some on several lists, but there were no takers.

    Sorry.

    You might check with Blane Bourgeois at Horus Botanicals. He grows quite a few off-beat alliums that are not in the catalog, and he might have some he can spare. Contact is 341 Mulberry, Salem, AR 72576.

  • coho
    18 years ago

    Pearlzwiebel is a very agressive multiplier. I had it last year but didn,t plant any this year. Just one plant had more than 40 bubils. Some very tiny.

  • gardenlad
    18 years ago

    That's one of the reasons I gave it up, Coho. No matter how careful I was, I always missed a few "pearls" and had volunteers all over the place.

  • winemaker1942
    Original Author
    18 years ago

    I realize this is a very prolific plant..but if it's what I grew ..I love it. Tast like garlic..single clove..can use the whole plant "Green"..Coho, did you tast it?? If so, did it have a garlic taste?? Do you know of a source?? Thanks..Winemaker

  • gardenlad
    18 years ago

    BTW, Winemaker, you might also look for them under the name "Portugease (sp?) Onions, which is what they're called in Louisiana and maybe other places.

  • coho
    18 years ago

    No, Never tried it. None of the bulbs had any size. Wasn't worth trying to peel those tiny bulbs. Did give some to a neighbor. She said they liked them. Pretty sure they don't taste like garlic.

  • paquebot
    18 years ago

    There seems to be a bit of conflict here. Allium ampeloprasum is elephant garlic! That propagates by seed and if left by itself to become feral, seems to revert back to its original Los Mols leek form. The true Allium ampeloprasum is more often call wild leek. I always wondered why a plant with viable seeds was only available for vegetative propagation. Those feral patches throughout the South are a testament to that!

    I'm now almost positive that a lot of "wild" topsetting onions may be feral pearl onions. I have them from 3 sources and all 3 are slightly different. Those from Alabama make the largest bulbs but their bulbils are in between those from two different sources in Texas. Leaf shape and color are just slightly different from each other. The differences would probably barely be noticed if they were grown together in a mixed patch. Two of them are close for number of small bulbils, 15 to 20+, while a third has only a max of about 10 larger bulbils. There are also differences in the number of plants which form from a single bulb. Bulbils from the Alabama variety indeed are hardy as seedlings are suddenly everywhere including places where I didn't have them! I could imagine large fields of pearl onions throughout the South 150 years ago. Pearl onions were a popular addition to many old recipes and pre-date the age of planting onions from seed. Thus those "wild" topsetting onions of the South would have to be feral pearl onions.

    Martin

  • gardenlad
    18 years ago

    Martin,

    John Swenson identified it as Allium ampeloprasum, and described it, tongue partly in cheek, as "a miniature multiplying elephant garlic."

    Perlzwiebel is one member of the group of bulbing leeks, of which elephant garlic, Le Mols, and Babbingtonii are others.

    As it turns out, some of our "garlics" are actually bulbing leeks that visually look like garlic. I know about one from Tennessee, for instance, that everyone thought was garlic until a Dna test was conducted. The test revealed that it was unquestionably a leek.

    >I always wondered why a plant with viable seeds was only available for vegetative propagation. Maybe because allium seeds remain viable for such a short period of time? All the multipliers, if left alone, are perennials. The bulbs shrink, over time, when a clump of that variety is left to naturalize. But if you dig a clump, separate it, and grow the plants individually, they will regain their original size, whatever that happened to be.

    Winemaker: Tastewise they are like shallots; sort of a cross between onions and garlic in flavor. But more towards the onion side. Very similar, in fact, to pearl onions. I've never eaten the leaves, so don't know what they taste like. And, as Coho notes, peeling them is a real pain. For perspective, a really big pearl is about the size of your thumb tip.

  • Warthog7
    18 years ago

    I bought from Horus Botanicals last year but none survived.

    Warthog

  • Robert1951
    18 years ago

    Yes they are doing well, even in a northern place like Belgium (Europe), i have lot's of them and they all came from 2 plants that i bought 5 years ago.
    I will save seeds for you ;)or maybe some plants.Maybe we can exchange other specialities.

  • flodhesten
    18 years ago

    Perlzwiebel means pearlonion in german. In german it refers to
    both the Allium ampeloprasum cultivar Perlzwiebel and to the small portugees type of onion, Allium cepa. The two types are quite different, as the last is layered as a normal onion contrary to the first beeing solid.

    It is mentioned in Cornucopia II by Stephen Facciola on page 4.

    In Denmark (quite northern in europe) it was a standard culture grown for pickling but have gone out of fashion. I think partly because of problems with diseases in the material. Nordisk illustreret Havebrugsleksikon (1921), an authoritative work on gardening describes it as follows: (my translation)

    "Perlzwiebel is a cultivar of Allium Ampeloprasum L. var typicum, that is shorter and less likely to flower, and it can not, as commonly assumed, be breed by cutting the flowering stalk of leek. Perlzwiebel is small and white and is only propagated by bulbs, which is formed in plenty.
    Cultivation: Divide and plant the individual perlzwiebel outdoor in early september. Area must be in the sun, soil more light than heavy, loam and a lot of nutrition. Set the bulbs i 6 rows along a bed 1,20 meter (3.9 feet) broad, 5cm (2 inch) between the bulbs and 3 cm (1.2inch) deep.
    The bulbs grow tops soon after setting them, only rootleaves and keeping green all winter, as the plant is completely hardy.
    Growth determines second year around june 23. starting by the yellowing of the leaves. By this sign the plants are harvested and dried on the bed, remembering that it would be
    much more difficult to harvest the hole cluster of bulbs if waiting any longer. After a few days store them in an airy loft, where they later when convenient can be cleaned and sorted, the medium sized for use in the kitchen.
    In early september set again in a new area, the smallest bulbs can be used. In case you have plenty of large bulbs they give a larger crop. Perlzwiebel can be grown on same area for several years without setting by leaving some of the smallest bulb when harvesting. When eventually wanting to grow other crops in such an area it is easily clened by digging it deeply."

    I guess that deep digging is a two level digging, where the upper half of the soil ends ind the bottom of the trench. This will bury the bulbs too deep to grow.

    Sören.

  • ThomasCB
    18 years ago

    I live in North Central Alabama, about 35 miles north of Birmingham. As noted "elephant garlic" grows wild here in Blount County. Any speculations on how this allium found its way to Alabama. I understand that Nichols Nursery claims to have introduced this plant to the American market several decades ago. It is so prolific over so many areas in this region that it is difficult to believe that it has spread so far over only several decades. Prior to the Revolutionary War, this area belonged to Spain and sometimes to France. I wonder if it has an earlier origin in the South associated with Spanish soliders and settlers in the Lower South?
    Tom

  • winemaker1942
    Original Author
    18 years ago

    Tom,
    This may be what I'm looking for..But before I get into more on that..Do you have any stock or know how I can get some???
    I originally got some of this Garlic like stock from a Lady in Ala.. It grew wild in her flower garden.
    Here's how it was... Large.. solid (non-segmented) clove.The leaves were broad/flat..It reproduced by forming smaller bulbs off of the parent bulb.It had a definte Garlic flavor..The (parent) bulb would grow as much as 2-2 1/2 inches in diameter. But again the buld was solid..Not segemented as is other Garlic varities..
    If this is what you have, please get back to me..
    Thanks.. Joey

  • ThomasCB
    18 years ago

    Joey:
    This looks like the elephant garlic you can buy in the gourmet section of the produce department in grocery store. It is segemented and has little light brown "buttons" on the roots that I understand can be planted and over time will develop into a bulb. In the past I have ordered elephant garlic from Nichols Nursery and it certainly looks to be the same plant. Again, this is a poor rural area most folks out here likely have never heard of Nichols Nursery or have the disposable income to buy from them. I really don't think that Nichols is the source for the plethora of what appear to be elephant garlic (Los Mols) that exists in this county of Alabama. Sometimes, the "elephant garlic" will just have a single bulb. This is an anomoly, but I have seen this occur.

  • winemaker1942
    Original Author
    18 years ago

    Tom, thanks for getting back to me..I'm not sure i know what (Los Mols ) is..Is that a variety strain of Elephant Garlic???
    It doesn't sound like what I've been looking for, however..
    You said Nichols probable is not the source for what grows in your county; do you have a source..Maybe it is what i'm after but just never had it mature to a segemented state..I'm interested in getting some to try..If you know of source local ...please get back to me..
    Thanks..joey

  • negi
    18 years ago

    Count me in on a trade! I would love to grow every variety I can find. I have read about this one, but never seen it.

  • ThomasCB
    18 years ago

    Clarification:
    First, Nichols Nursery could theoretically be the source of the "elephant" garlic that grows wild around here. However, it is so widespread that it is hard to believe it just escaped from a local garden, unless it was many many decades ago. It must be propagating both by SEED ( as well as by cloves and bublets on the cloves)which difinitely places it in the leek family not garlic. Secondly, I am speculating that it is Los Mols from an comment I found on the internet. Excerpt form another site:"...Elephant garlic sets viable seed in addition to cloves and corms? I think that I must fly to Spain and check out the reproduction habits of Los Mols Wild Leek!..."

    Whatever the variety of "elephant garlic" we have here in Blount CO, I will be happy to did up some bulbs in late Spring and pass them on. The leaves are poking through the ground now, likely best to wait until finish producing their cloves to dig them.

  • winemaker1942
    Original Author
    18 years ago

    Tom, I still would like to try your "Wild Garlic or Leek" whatever it is... When you think it's ready, let me know and I'll send postage & handling..I keep calling it Garlic because of it's flavor but it definitely grows and looks more like leek..In any case ..I'd like to get some of yours!!!
    Thanks

  • negi
    18 years ago

    Keep me in mind too, Tom I would love some. I would be happy to send postage and handling or to trade any of these for it.
    Chives*
    Chives Garlic*
    Onion Deviding Ultra tough Cepa*
    Onion 1015 yellow
    Onion Ailsa Craig
    Onion Bermuda Belle white
    Onion Copra
    Onion Crimson Forest
    Onion Deep Purple*
    Onion Dividing Local Heirloom*
    Onion Dividing Tough Productive Probably White Lisbon*
    Onion Egyptian Walking
    Onion Evergreen*
    Onion Evergreen Hardy
    Onion Flat Red
    Onion Four Seasons
    Onion Granex yellow Sweet
    Onion He Shi Ko
    Onion I'itois
    Onion Ishikura
    Onion Japanese Unknown*
    Onion Kuronobori
    Onion Mass Producing Japanese*
    Onion Natsuguro
    Onion Potato
    Onion Yellow Potato
    Onion Red Beard
    Onion S1 Productive Redskin Shallot*
    Onion Southern Belle Red
    Onion Southport White
    Onion Summer TS
    Onion Superstar
    Onion Sweet Spanish Contessa
    Onion Tokyo Long White
    Onion White Nebuka
    Onion White Spear
    Shallot Ambition
    Shallot Armador
    Shallot Bonilla
    Shallot Matador
    Shallot Mirage
    Shallot Old German
    Shallot Pinkish
    Shallot Prisma
    Shallot Red
    Shallot Ultra productive*
    Shallot White
    Shallot yellow Skin

    *Proven division and year round survival in my garden.

    -Bob

  • ThomasCB
    18 years ago

    Will be happy to oblige the requests for this Blount CO "garlic". It might be helpful for someone to jog my memory in late Spring, seems I am gettng somewhat forgetful.

    Tom, your fellow alliumphile

  • oneofeight
    18 years ago

    DEAR TOM; I'D LOVE TO TRY YOUR WILD "WHATEVER THEY ARE" TOO. I'LL TRY TO REMEMBER TO REMIND YOU LATER IN THE YEAR; AND SEND SHIPPING AND POSTAGE. LOOKING FORWARD.
    ONEOFEIGHT

  • lillieinal
    18 years ago

    i live in morgan county al zone 7.
    there are so many wild alliums here. they come up everywhere and look like a garlic but have round leaves, many cloves and topset.i would like to know what they are.anyone know of pictures for wild alliums ?

  • lillieinal
    18 years ago

    winemaker i saw a listing for these in "seed savers 2006 yearbook" page 203

  • ThomasCB
    18 years ago

    I have found some pictures of elephant garlic on the internet the url is: http://images.google.com/images?q=elephant+garlic&svnum=10&hl=en&lr=&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&start=0amp;sa=N BE SURE to copy then paste the entire url to access this site to see pictures of elephant garlic. The first few pictures are definitely the type growing around here.
    Tom
    Blount Co, Alabama

  • coho
    18 years ago

    Winemaker,
    Found and transplanted the 4 largest bubils of what could be a stray Pearlzwiebel. Much more likely that it is a wild leek which was given to me 3 years ago. Will know by 1st of July.

  • lillieinal
    18 years ago

    tom thanks for the info.......lillieinal

  • ThomasCB
    18 years ago

    I had to do a rescue transplant several of the "elephant garlic" that I had planted as cloves last year. They were in a very low lying area of my yard that has been boggy now for several weeks because of the rains. The leaves were turning a metallic purple and I suspect the plants were "drowning". These cloves had made ONE BIG Solid bulb, not a bunch of individual cloves making up a bulb.(The orginal bulbs were feral and made up of large cloves.) So I am speculating that I am looking at a 2 or 3 year process: 1) You plant a clove from the mother bulb, 2)That clove forms on large bulb the first year, 3) The next year it forms a bulb made up of individual cloves.
    OTHER THOUGHTS:
    Now, these particular cloves were planted quite late, I had overlooked them and did not get them in the ground till November. Perhaps the late planting had something to do with just geting one solid bulb. I have other cloves that I planted in the Fall, so we will see if they follow suit. I have grown regular leeks from seed and they are biennials. I can only assume these "perpetual" leeks also are inclined to be biennial in their life-span. So I am somewhat puzzled about what is going on here. I believe I have read somewhere that garlic, if environmentally stressed for some reason such as drought, will sometimes just make one big clove.

    Tom
    Blount Co Al

  • coho
    18 years ago

    Tom,
    Nothing wrong with transplanting Elephant Garlic, I do it most years for various reasons. Mainly comes up in the wrong place.
    That said, you planted late and transplanted. Both set the bulb growth back. Rounds would be pretty normal for any of the above. Even planting small cloves usually results in Rounds.
    Plant your large cloves a little earlier than regular garlic and they will end up as regular bulbs.

  • ThomasCB
    18 years ago

    Just a follow up on elephant garlic. I missed a few that were standing in muck among the dock in a very low area of the yard.You might remember that I was afraid they would drown and did an emergency transplant. Well the two I missed have bounced back, since it has dried out some. Guess I didn't need to rescue them after all. Their survival seems to go against what I have heard about alliums needing to be placed in a well drained location??

    Off the subject some: the ramps (Allium tricoccum) that I obtained from West Virginia are up and doing well out in the woods; the Babbington leek bubils are up in the flower box; kurrat seed is up, but looks delicate; and I have three los mol seeds that are up, also looks delicate. I want to compare the los mol to the elephant garlic to check out my suspicion that elelphant garlic is actually los mol.

    Tom,
    Blount Co, AL

  • korney19
    17 years ago

    Any updates on this thread? Please post results/conclusions. Thanks. Mark

  • korney19
    17 years ago

    OK, it's now Fall... Tom & Coho, what did you two discover or conclude?

  • coho
    17 years ago

    Re the "stray Pearlzwiebel" It wasn't. Just one of the 'wild' leaks I was given. They do produce quite a few bubils but nothing like the Pearls.
    Re the Elephants, Nothing has changed for me. Mostly I grow them to divert my "pet gopher" from the other garlics and onions. Seems to prefer them.

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