Shop Products
Houzz Logo Print
billinsc

allium ID help please...

billinsc
18 years ago

Several years ago, I dug these alliums from an ancient home place. They have been very prolific, and I will seperate them soon. Here is the link for ID:

http://home.bellsouth.net/p/s/community.dll?ep=331&folderid=202518&groupid=257811&folderview=thumbs&ck=

Thanks..

Bill in SC

Comments (19)

  • ksrogers
    18 years ago

    Looks to me a little like a chive as the scape (flowers), but with a flat leaf like a garlic grass. I have both growing here side by side, and yours look a bit like both. Its probably neither, but because most onions and chives have tubular leaves and garlic has flat leaves, someone else more knowlegable can probably pinpoint the ID.

  • billinsc
    Original Author
    18 years ago

    It does indeed have flat bluish green leaves.. I will get more and better pics soon. I really would like to know what I have..
    and.. I have plenty of them if anybody wants to trade for a few..
    Bill in SC

  • ksrogers
    18 years ago

    Those flowers will start to form seed heads and soon you can pick them off and replant, or dispose of them. I bet they sprout up everyhwhere like my chives do here. My chive seeds are tiny onion shaped bulbils, but the garlic chive seeds are hard and black in color. The bees go nuts over these too. Wonder what the honey tastes like? Onion flavored honey??

  • coho
    18 years ago

    Looks just like my Elephant Garlic. If you cut off the scapes, you will get larger bulbs. Of course, I always leave a few for the flowers. And, if you cut them early enough(still tender) You can cook them just like any other garlic scapes.

  • billinsc
    Original Author
    18 years ago

    I have a hunch it is Elephant garlic. So you are saying, like with any bulb, go ahead and cut the blooms off to develop larger bulbs? As indicated, I dug these from an old home place, and they have multiplied like crazy over the course of about 5 years. How often do you dig them and divide them? I don't want to sound ignorant, but I know little about alliums. Anyhow, the Elephant garlic is good to eat? I sell plants at the flea market. Could I sell the garlic, or plants? One more thing, when you say if you cut the scapes early/tender enough they are good too.. Is that before the flower opens, or just when it fully opens? Hope I am not bugging you guys too much, but inquiring minds manna know!! (:
    Bill in SC

  • billinsc
    Original Author
    18 years ago

    BTW ksrogers... I have always left the blooms on them till they started dying, completely mature, and them mowed them down. I have never notice any seedlings emerging from them. They just seem to be getting thicker from the bulbs. I KNOW they need digging up and seperating.. What's the best time of year for that. I would guess this fall after the bulbs get through multiplying?

  • ksrogers
    18 years ago

    When my chives 'bloom' its not for very long and they do quickly grow into small round balls of tiny chive bulbs. A year later, the greens can get to about a 1/4 inch in diameter and will usually remain at that size for several years after. Because I pull off all the bulb heads and seperate the small bulblets, they continue to grow well in the same area every year. Right now, mine are sending up a stiff stalk which will form into the flower balls and then seeds. If I allow these to drop where they fall, I get chives everywhere. If you chop off the flower heads before they get a chance to form into the tiny bulbs, you may not see many more the following year. If you want to add more chives, allow these to mature to beyond the flower state (no mowing), and then pick off the seed balls a few weeks later. These get seperated and replanted to an area where you want them to be. I don't seperate mine here as they crowd out weeds, and only grow in a small 3x6 foot area where I keep them contained. If any die off through the years, they get replaced by new bulbs, so I never run out except when the plants go to seed and the greens die off in summer. My chives are actually a cool weather herb.

  • coho
    18 years ago

    Cut the scapes at about 12" tall works for me. When the leaves start to turn yellow, stop watering. When half of the leaves are dry, dig the bulbs. Tie them in bunches of about 8 and hand in a dry airy place for 2 to 3 weeks to cure. Cut off roots. cut off tops at about 1". Store in a cool airy place. Perhaps an onion bag. hanging from a nail.
    This fall, plant the largest cloves 8" apart and about 2" of dirt over the cloves. In two or three years they should be bact to normal size bulbs.

    KS, I don't quite understand what chive proprogation has to do with Billin's question? I have read your postings very carefully and your chives are not like mine. In
    SE Alaska they formed seed heads 2 or three times during the short season. They died back during freezing temptures. Here they do not die back during the summer so long as they are watered. They form seed heads but not viable seeds.

  • paquebot
    18 years ago

    Coho, there is only one variety of onion chives that I've ever heard of. They are almost unique among the allium family for both blossom type and leaves. With no close cousins to mate with, they remain as a single variety. I have no clue as to what is being described as bulbs and bulblets for chives since there is no dying back here, either. Did you catch the mention of chive seeds being "tiny onion shaped bulbils"? That ain't chives, either!

    Martin

  • coho
    18 years ago

    Martin,
    My wife and I have been growing flowers and garden stuff just about as long as we can remember. It didn't "compute' for either of us.

  • billinsc
    Original Author
    18 years ago

    Hello folks,
    I got some better photos for you to help me ID these plants. The stalks have elongated to over 5 feet tall.. Is this indeed elephant garlic?
    Bill in SC

    Here is a link that might be useful: new allium photos

  • ksrogers
    18 years ago

    All I can say is what I describe as chives here and were planted as such don't grow well through the summer months. Most of the greens die off except the small ball of tiny bulbs as a cluster. About mid July, I remove these and break them apart and replant them. I don't dig anything up, and can only harvest greens after the end of september though to about mid June of the following year. My chives are at best about a foot tall for the scapes, and maybe 20 inches long for the greens. Again, I was originaly thinking that BillinSC had chives, but as mentioned, I am totally wrong and will admit this publicly. NO human on this earth is perfect and no human on this earth is capable of NOT making a mistake, so why so much anger??

  • billinsc
    Original Author
    18 years ago

    KSRogers,
    I did not hear any anger directed towards you, just some confusion regarding your comments. Yes, we are all human, and NONE perfect.. God bless you brother!! (:
    Bill in SC

  • paquebot
    18 years ago

    Those appear to be leek plants and leek flowers. Allium ampeloprasum, to be exact. Of course, that could be Babbington, elephant garlic, or Los Mols. The only differences are the shape of the bulbs. When allowed to grow wild and naturalize via seed in the South, it seems that the first two want to revert to the third type. Tasting the leaves will confirm that it's a leek. Digging up a plant, after half the leaves are dead, will give you a clue as to which one. From reports of many such "wild" stands throughout the South, divided bulbs are seldom found, only rounds. Perhaps that may have something to do with why elephant garlic is only sold as cloves rather than seed.

    Also, my chives grow all summer and bloomed right up to and past frost last year. They were quite a hit with the honeybees. As it became colder, a friend's Russians would be here an hour or so before his Italians even thought of flying and still be here an hour later!

    Martin

  • billinsc
    Original Author
    18 years ago

    I'll dig a bulb tomorrow, and photograph it to be posted for viewing.. Maybe that will tell the final tail..
    Bill in SC

  • paquebot
    18 years ago

    Bill, did you ever get a chance to dig some of those bulbs? I finally dug up my assorted "wild" things and still trying to figure out what they are. Those from one source, TrudyJean, turned out to eventually divide into cloves similar to elephant garlic. Some looked like ordinary hard bulblets except larger.

    Those from another source had originally given only nice large rounds last year. Some simply divided in half this year. Of the dozen or so plants, about half did that while the others produced 3 or 4 round bulbs. That was the one suspected of being Babbington leek.

    At the moment, I can't find any viable seeds in the seed heads in either type. Both did produce bulblets on some plants but only one or two. Terribly slow reproduction so I may use up most of them in cooking. For certain, they seem to be much happier in the South.

    Martin

  • billinsc
    Original Author
    18 years ago

    Paquebot, No I never did dig any of them this year. They just died back like they do every summer. They are so thick, I need to dig some and transplant them to other areas.. Do you want me to dig a couple up this weekend, then send you a pic? Do you want some of 'em? Just let me know..
    Bill in SC

  • girasol1
    18 years ago

    I was trying to know more about allium roseum I saw something about split bulb?I know how to split plants but bulb?I have no idea, one time when I try to move my lily I moved the bulb and i saw thw bulb was bigger and little bulbs growing, so how I split my allium I asume will look almost the same but I just separate the little bulb or I have to wait until after flower ? have no idea ...

  • paquebot
    18 years ago

    Bill, no doubt they are small bulbs after having grown feral for so long. Most of that "garlic" that grows in the South seems to a form of elephant garlic. With the wild version still existing, I think that the whole works is an on-going domestication process. It makes sense that only properly divided bulbs would be used for planting back. Anything else would be culled. I'm not certain how long elephant garlic has been around but I'll bet that there are many separate strains. In other words, it's just like an unstable hybrid.

    With the 3 separate ones here to compare, they were all seemingly the same identical variety until the bulbs were dug. Smallish triple or quadruple splits on one, decent but small splits of 5 or 6 from another, but only large doubles or rounds from a third. None are exactly like the normal elephant garlic sold in stores or for seed.

    Martin

Sponsored
Ngrained Woodworks
Average rating: 5 out of 5 stars4 Reviews
Custom Woodworking, Décor, and More in Franklin County