December in a z6/7?

It seems awfully late (or early, depending on how you look at it) Southern commercial growers do typically over-winter the texas-type onion, but they plant earlier, and they are in a much warmer zone.

I'll be interested to hear how it goes, as you are in about the same zone as I am (though a quite different day-lentgh).

Plus totally different growing conditions. Your winters are long and deep. Hers are short and shallow. When you bottom out at the zone temperature it's likely to stay there for weeks. When she bottoms out, it's usually only for a day or two.

All of which can affect growth habits. And is just one of the reasons the USDA zones are next to meaningless for vegetable growers.

Here's a good example: Here in Kentucky I am harvesting things at a time I would just be planting them when I lived in Mass. Yet the zone is the same.

Winter long and deep (which isn't a good description of winter here, BTW) compared with winter short and shallow, if true as an average statement - should definitely show up in the zone. Perhaps I'm mistaken, but isn't a zone measured by the average minimum temp over some number of years?(if it isn't, it oughtta be). So, for instance, it has been below zero here once in the 24 years I've been here - but that wasn't the average min even for that week, let alone all 24 winters. I don't know the actual recorded data off the top of my head, but for those 24 years I'm going to say it is something like 12-15 deg. Our cold snaps rarely, rarely last more than 3 or 4 days together.

Chances are it's a 6b here and where you are because the 'deep' part of the winter is pretty identical in terms of temp. You may well average more snow cover during that time as you are probably at much higher elevation. Also, though Mass is a small state, like Kentucky it spans a good distance east-west and also huge changes in elevation. Thus, like Kentucky it varies largely in climate. Here, in 'tropical' mass, many winters I harvest year-round. Certainly y'all in appalachian z6b have an earlier spring, but I'm willing to bet we in maritime z6b have a later frost date.

So, not to be contentious, but your statement "totally different growing conditions" in general, is fairly off the mark, IMO. Regarding onions specifically, then, conditions regarding climate are about the same. The other very important factor, day-lentgh, is also a toss-up. Such an experiment would likely fail here because day-length shortness at this time would cause most any type of common onion to bolt. The growers in southern georgia and texas have sufficient winter daylight to prevent the adapted short-day varieties from bolting - but thay are grown from seed in sept-oct and kept in the same latitude throughout. Starting them in that latitude and climate and then moving them half-way to long-day latitude and exposing them suddenly to much colder conditions will be quite shocking.

The one long or intermediate-day variety that I know of that over-winters (walla-walla), it is said won't well tolerate our extremes of climate in the east, but I plan to test this for myself.

>Chances are it's a 6b here and where you are because the 'deep' part of the winter is pretty identical in terms of temp.Not so. Let's posit that you reach a low of 8 degrees in each of ten years, and I reach the same 8 degrees in those years. We both have an average lowest temperature of 8 degrees.

However, let's say you drop to 8 degrees on 8-10 days of the year, but I only reach it one day.

We both still have an average low of 8 degrees, even though your cold weather is more long lasting.

That's precisely how the USDA Agricultural Hardiness Zones work. And one of the many reasons they are all but meaningless for vegetable growers.

The only thing the zones tell you is whether or not a particular plant will over-winter where you are with no protection. Being as 99.999999% of vegetables are treated as annuals by gardeners, frost dates are very important. The zone numbers aren't.

BTW, to put a point on it, last year our frost line was less than one inch. I can't remember ever having so little frozen ground when I lived in the Boston area. So one of the things this affects is when directions say "as soon as the ground can be worked." I'd be willing to bet those are different times for me and for you.

What frost lines reflect is not the minimum temperature reached, but how long the temperature remains below freezing.

> You may well average more snow cover during that time as you are probably at much higher elevation.Snow? What's snow?

We hardly ever see snow at all (I joke with northerners that we have a county ordnance against it). As as to elevation, I'm somewhere between 300-400 feet---for practical purposes, sea level.

What I don't have, that you do, is the moderating influence of the ocean---which not only effects your frost dates, but your growing season.

You lived in Boston but were unaware of the tropical cape and islands? A tragedy.

The outskirts of greater boston are a zone 5 - 5.5, I believe. A short distance west into higher elevations can find a zone 4. Probably even now in these warmer times there will be no winter in the boston area where the ground does not hardly freeze, but it happens here it seems like every third winter or so.

So far we had a two nights of Becky

Cape, Mass is too far from tropical. I came from tropical. The summer night of Cape is the winter day of tropical.

Yep, that's good advice. Just keep doing something.

Luong, I was using the word "tropical" in a comparitive sense, not a literal one. Figuratively, one could say the cape and islands are the 'tropics' of new england.

Well the weather is being so weird, who knows how the plants will fare this year. All the onions are sprouted and have leaves about 6-8" high. I still have more of the sets to plant and will try to do that this week. We're supposed to have sun with highs around 50 and lows going from the mid 20s-mid 30s this week.

And if anyone's been keeping track of the Ruling Days, the whole year should be unusually warm. At least in our area.

Becky