Rick, thanks SO much for the recipe and thanks for being so specific. I need that:-). That really simplifies things for me. Yes, it's like a Christmas gift! I think I probably got so many of my choices because I didn't ask for really rare seeds. I chose seeds that many of the members probably already have. I don't have anything suitable for a rock garden except armeria, a helianthimum, some dianthus, iberis, some narcissus species, sedums, and woodland wildflowers; so most everything listed was new to me:-) Hmmm...I just remembered a couple of geraniums, a dwarf blue platycodon, a campanula. If I made a list, I would probably find I've got more that I thought. Anyway...thanks again!

In the method taught in the class the chicken grit or gravel is not mixed into the potting mix. It is put on top, about 1/4 to 3/8ths of an inch thick. The gravel they used was 1/8th of an inch in diameter, that should be the grade of chicken grit you buy. The mix itself was just perlite and peat moss. This method was used for sprouting shrubs, perennials, vines and trees. I don't know if it would be good for true alpines.

The seeds are sprinkled on top of the seed mix and then the gravel isplaced over the seeds. This helps hold them in place so they don't get washed away with water and it helps hold moisture. For seeds that require light to germinate HInkley said they only need an hour or two of light exposure. With those types od seeds he would add the gravel first and then sprinkle the seeds on top of the gravel. They would stay on top long enough to get teh light exposure and then would filter down throught the gravel.

He would start a hundred seeds in one 4 inch pot. Grow these on for a few month and then remove them from the pot and carefully seperate the roots from the mixture and other roots and pot them up individually in larger containers. In some cases he woudl grow them in these 4 inch containers for a year or more until he was ready to deal with them.

I don't think this method would work well for veggies.

Good luck,
jb

Vegangirl,
I couldn't believe there was no exact recipe in the NARGS beginner book (or at least I didn't find one). How discouraging, and no wonder you're confused!

I plant each type of seed in its own 3-4" pot. Different species take varying amounts of time to germinate; if you make a tray with several species, some will come up while others are still sleeping, and you won't be able to cater to their needs as the growth stages will be different. If you have to, it MIGHT work to put species of the same genus together. Be sure to label all POTS, not the bags!

When the time comes, and you are planting seed, you'll only be watering with a mist bottle at first(on mist or sprinkle setting). You don't want to dislodge the seed you just planted. Watering from the bottom is fine, but you'll probably need some from the top too. After the pots have drained for several hours or overnight, seal them in clear plastic bags and keep them in good bright light but no direct sun: things can cook inside those little greenhouses with direct sun.

Because it is a sealed environment, no watering is needed until bags are removed and evaporation begins. Open the bags individually when you see the first evidence of germanation. Don't wait for seeds to be up and unfolded, and don't wait for more than one seed to show germination in each pot. If one is showing life, others(hopefully) are already swelling and well on their way. Because of the inherent nature of alpines, seedlings are more susceptible to damping off disease in a humid environment(i.e. inside the bag). This is why it is important to be vigilant. Try to check them every day. This is also why the seeding medium is less moisture retentive then in the plant's adult world. Besides, removing bags early will help produce stockier plants. After 3-7 days, remove the bag entirely.

Rick

Don't be tempted to overseed in pots just because you may have a lot of seed. Thinning out seedlings later with a tweezers, trying not to damage what you want to keep, really isn't that fun. Even now, I speak from experience. Mostly, you'll find that nearly all your seed will germinate, or none.
Rick

Thanks for sharing your class gleanings with us JB.

I am sure Heronswood plants 100 seeds per pot for nursery purposes, and they have greenhouses. That's not good for us. I usually grow about 6 per pot, depending on what it is. But others in my chapter grow 10-12 and transplant earlier. One member only allows 2 or 3, so she can wait even longer to transplant.

For seeds that need light, he has a very good idea. The hour or two of light is a daily requirement, but once germination begins, light shouldn't be needed. In the technical sense meant here, germination is actually not the sprouting up, but the initial stages of seed awakening.

Rick

Yes you are right leftwood. They seed that many for production purposes. Never intended to imply that was a good idea for us.:)

And the authors of the books is S. Still and Michael Dirr.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was thinking that many, if not most, of the seeds in the exchange are not alpines, no?

jb

JB, I'm not sure. I think (just think here) that about a third grow in alpine regions, but not necessarily ONLY above the tree line, maybe another third do well in alpine gardens but do not natively grow in the high reaches, and a third not alpinish at all.

Being a woody plant nut,I was very excited that seed from the northernmost disjunct population of American snowbell(shrub) was donated. Incredibly special for people who want it. I haven't got my NARGS seed yet, but of all the seed from the 4600 choices this year, that is the one I want most. If I can get that styrax to grow here in Minnesota, the ONLY chance would be genetics from that population.

JB, I have both of those good books, but I didn't realize Dirr's had such a long title. Dirr has a much better book if you are really in to woody plant propagation: The Reference Manual of Woody Plant Propagation.

Rick

Hmm, That's the book I thought I had. Looks like he has two. I had intended to buy the one you mentioned. I'll have to look into that.

Thanks,
jb

JB & Rick, Thanks so much for the good and detailed seed starting information. Very, very helpful. I couldn't find an exact recipe either and kept going back and re-reading thinking surely I had just overlooked it. They really do need to put one in the beginner's book. It's such a basic beginner need:-)

Rick, I hope you get your styrax!!

This has been a great thread! Thank you JB and Rick for all the great information.

Rick I do have 'A Utah Flora', 'How to identify flowering plant families', an illustrated dictionary of botanical terminology and several books on local flora with pictures. The 'Greek' is still way over my head but as I become more familiar with the different types of plants it is becoming easier. I'll try out your suggestions this year while out and about.

This year is the first year that I've had seeds that required GA3 treatment and I'm treating some now. Some of the seeds from NARGS still need 12 wks of cold treatment. Here in Utah we won't have that many more weeks of cold so these seeds are going to have to go in the fridge. My question is: do you suggest using the papertowel method or would potting them up like normal and sticking them in the fridge work better? Hmmmmm I've done the paper towel method several times and it works but mortality rate of pricked off seeds is still higher than I would like. I'm also a bit hesitant to stick a pot of dirt in the fridge... but if it means better success I'll do it. Any other suggestions are welcome.

Congrats vegangirl on receiving so many of your first choices.

The below picture is of most of my 2005 seeds sown.(I'm going to be a busy girl this spring)

{{gwi:369743}}

Saagebrushred, That's impressive!!! How many different varieties do you have there?

Sagebrush, my oh my, you will be and are busy. Are those all alpines in the photo? It's obvious you don't use the same method for initial germination as me. (I don't see any evidence of bags.) How about telling us about it. Of course you have drier air than me or out east; what is your watering regime?

I've never tried GA3, but eventually will. When you get a bit of results, I want datails. Which seeds treated, for how long, at what concentration, etcetera, etcetera.

It is fun, but I've never been a fan of the paper towel thing, and for the same reason. Those radicals(tiny root initials) are so delicate and so easy to damage and thus susceptible to disease. Frankly, I can't see how the paper towel method would work at all for stratification, only for immediate sprouting.

I stratify a lot of my seed in bags of moist peat. I'd say you need at least 4 times the volume of peat as that of the seed. I read somewhere lately on the forums that someone doesn't like to use peat because it holds too much moisture, and that person prefers sand(was it?). That is true. You need to learn the difference between wet and moist peat. Sometimes it's not as easy as you'd think. Sand, peat, perlite, or any combination will work.

Myself, I don't know what is wrong with dirt in the frig,unless it takes up too much room. The pots would be in bags anyway, so it wouldn't impart taste to the food. Otherwise you'll find the medium drying out all the time. You could stack them too, as long as you're not compacting the soil.

Rick

I've really enjoyed this thread, esp. the great seed starting info. I really think some of the info would be good to put in the faq...does anyone know how to do that???
Would like to refer to it in the future.

I'd like to know more about the GA-3 also...where can you purchase it and how do you get instructions for its use?

Good idea, squirrelspur! I don't know how to do it though.

Hi all, I'm new to this thread but have enjoyed it immensely. I use a layer of "Oil Dry" on the top of my pots for starting seeds and have good success. You can also tell when it dries out. I mailed my seed order to NARGS on Dec. 28, and still no seeds, so you are indeed lucky! I have however received my seed from NEWFS and am still potting like crazy. I am fortunate to have a spare fridge--so it is full of pots now, but also have a bunch outside in the cold frame. Last year I placed my NARGS seed in damp peatmoss in the fridge with moderate success. Going to try vermiculite this year I think. I noticed a better germination rate on seeds that had been wintered over outside over those from the fridge tho. So with exception to some seeds I was really thrilled to get, specifically different Dodecatheon species, I am trying to put most of them out--but anything not planted by this weekend will have to go in the fridge. Hope you don't mind me jumping in.
Tommie

Hi Tommie, Welcome! You mean NEWFS has a seed exhange like NARGS?!!! I'll have to check. I might have to join that too:-) I think I might email somebody about the NARGS seeds, if I were you. Seems like yours should have arrived since its first come, first serve. What is "Oil Dry"? I'm still in the gathering stage, trying to get the supplies I need to start my seeds.

You don't have to be a member to buy seed from NEWFS-it is more expensive tho if you're not--definately check out their site-- the seed sale is almost over. They also have good propagation info in the seed list, some may be applicable to your NARGS seed. I just found a really neat site for other unusual alpines a couple of days ago--but am not sure if i can post the name here, and you may have heard of them--they are located in Colorado--e-mail me privately if interested. Oil Dry is used in garages etc to absorb oil, spills etc. It is clay particles like cat litter--only no scent. It doesn't break down when wet either. You can buy a 40lb bag for less than $4 at Sams Club. I have seen mention of this in some literature, but I learned about it from a NARGS member years ago. I find it easier to use then sand--but it is a matter of preference, and also what I am sowing. To me 40lbs of Oil Dry isn't as hard to handle as an equal amount of sand--don't know why. It is great for surface sowing too, since seeds lodge in the "cracks" All they sell for chickgrit here is crushed oyster shells too. But I have found that Quik Crete sells a bagged sand with a choice of small, med or large grains--check your local building supply. I have also used sandblasting sand with good results. Sagebrushred, are you using Ga3 per Deno? If a solution what strength are you using? I will be potting like crazy today!! So good growing all!
Tommie

Tommie, in Canada we lovingly refer to our east coast neighbors in Newfoundland as 'Newfs'! lol
What is NEWFS? And yes, please mention the name of the place in Colorado here... As long as you aren't shamelessly promoting your own web site or product it is okay.

Thanks,
GardenChicken

I think some of this information can be found in the FAQ on the Growing frome Seed forum.

I think I remember hearing that to cold stratify seeds they need to have been exposed to moisture. Just putting them in the fridge in their packets, dry, won't have the same effect in triggering germination. Is that correct?

jb
PS You can post any link as long is it's not your business.

Hi all, New England Wildflower Society:) Their seed catalog is worth the paper and ink to print because of the species specific propagation info. (I usually print it then have it spiral bound at Kinko's for reference) They also have a couple of really great books, they encompass a geat variety of wildflowers, not just alpines. I checked and the members only order period ends tomorrow the 10th, but ordering continues thru Mar 22, so the catalog should be available online to non members on the 11th. I store seed in packets in air tight container in the fridge just to preserve viability. You are right J.B., that isn't enough to stratify them. To stratify I usually place the seed in moist peatmoss in a baggie. However, the moist stratified seed I received from the NEWFS this year had vermiculite in it-- the seed was easier to see so will do that instead this year. I also have planted pots and covered them with a humidity dome (taped shut) & placed them in the fridge--takes a lot of space--(DH wants to know where he is to put the beer--LOL) again that is for special seeds, namely all the Dodecatheons I received from Jim Almond in the U.K. The name of the nursery I just found is Rocky Mountain Rare Plants. www.rmrp.com Their sales period ends in March, but starts in the fall so you can bet I will be back there then, since my seed budget for the year is going into the red zone;). They had some neat neat stuff.
Tommie

Here is a link that might be useful: New England Wild flower Society

Vegan girl I have somewhere between 200 and 300 varieties sown right now I think.

I'm definitly bordering on insane... I need to learn to strive more towards the median in my endeavors rather than the extreme. In the next couple of weeks I'll be writing down all the names and dates sown and trying to get them put into a spreadsheet on the computer. I should have done this as I sowed my seeds... you know what they say about hind sight. At least I have everything labeled and dated.

Rick I use the method much like the one JB describes. I sow the seed in a moistened medium (a mix of soiless mix, vermiculite, perlite, turface, osmocote, sand/grit) top with grit and place them outside exposing them to the devices of mother nature. I suspect I'd have more seed germinate using your method but this seems to work OK. I've been potting up seeds since late November. I've not watered them yet, as we've had a sufficently wet winter this year. I'm not sure how I'll handle the watering once the weather warms up. Last year I only started about 30 different type of seeds and hand watered them as needed. And no they are not all alpines. There are only 10 or so that would qualify as alpines.

As for the Ga3 I ordered mine from J.L. Hudson. They have a basic kit that came with instructions on how to use. And yes I'm using the Deno method. I am using a 500ppm and 1000ppm solution. I soaked 1/2 of each of Penstemon duchenensis, P. fremontii and P. compactus for a day and have sown them as usual. I've decided to place these outside until the weather begins to get too warm and will then place in a baggie and put in the fridge for the remainder of the recommended stratification period. What do you all think? This is a first for me so any advice from those of you with more experience is greatly appreciated.

OK you guys that start the seed in moist peat/vermiculite or sand (I think sand would work great) in baggies, then what. Don't you still have to prick the seeds out of this similarly to the paper towel method?

Good to hear from you Tommie and thank you for the link to NEWFS. Rocky Mountain Rare Plants is a very good source for seed and information.

In addition to RMRP I also check the site listed by JB, www.onrockgarden.com, tomclothier.hort.net, and Alplains cataloge.

This would be great information to have in the FAQS page if anyone can figure out how to put it there.

We can't put things in the FAQs ourselves. But the webmaster (aka Spike) can do that stuff. I am sure there is a direct line, but I don't know what it is. If you post on the suggestions and comments forum, I am sure it will get read by him/her/them.

I have about 150 varieties either sown or in the process--
Gee if we are all successful we should have one heck of a plant swap! I too am prone to extremes. The seeds are just so small......
On sowing in the baggies, I do it only for stratification when it gets too late to start them out. The rule of thumb I use is if they are planted out by Feb (read that somewhere) they will have enough time for germination inhibitors to be removed. Later than that and I use the fridge method. I am pushing that deadline until this weekend tho 'cos I have so darn many. I have had very few actually germinate in the fridge--if they do I just pot them up-but generally I spread the contents on the potting soil and cover with oil dry (unless they need light--then they go on top) The sucess of either method remains debatable tho, guess it just depends on the species, and probably who you ask. I tried Matalea decipiens outside last year and also with indoor stratification, got almost 100% germination outdoors and about 2% from the indoors. Indoors is more controlled, but like you I think some things prefer the natural rhythym of freezing & thawing provided by nature. I am definately enjoying this thread--so many knowledgable people in one place! I appreciate the sites you listed & am going to peruse them along with the one J.B. mentioned this evening. One day off a week just isn't enough!! I am interested in how your GA3 plants turn out. I am new to that method myself. I am trying it on some Erythroniums, but the seed is from last year so not sure how much success I will have. I have had the Deno books for years, but for so long it was very hard to come by the GA3
Tommie

Wow some very experienced seed starters here...150..200..300. And I thought I was good when actually got plants from seeds last year!

Going to email Spike and see if we can add to FAQ.

squirrelspur

Oops! If I had to pick out the seed I was stratifying in any medium, I don't know what I'd do. No, No. I spread the medium with stratified seed over potting soil (or whatever I deem appropriate) in a pot to sprout. If they are non-alpine large seed I might cover lightly with soil.

About the oil dry, Tommie, are you talking about the proprietary name Oil Dry or just any? I would be careful if it was just any such substance, as who knows what other brands might be made of or what contaminates there might be.

And I'm fessing up here: what the hecks a Deno? Does he sing and dance too?

rick

I don't think it matters how long one has been growing or how many seeds have been started, I still am thrilled when the first hints of green start poking up through the medium. To me, there seems to be something so magical about the whole process. I (obviously) can never get enough. In answer to your question Rick, I use the "Oil Dry" brand specifically--sorry my keyboarding skills are not great-- I'm hit or miss on the shift key!! This has worked well for me for years, and for me is easier to handle then sand which even tho the bag says 40lbs, is usually wet and weighs more like 80. Norman C. Deno may sing or dance, I'm not too sure about that;) but what he has done is conduct GA3 experiments on virtually thousands of varieties of seeds. He has self published 3 books with this info. They can be ordered directly from him and are reasonably priced. I am sticking a link in that describes his work--also a valuable tool for using the books since the site references which book has info on which species.
tommie

Here is a link that might be useful: Norman C. Deno Info

Thanks Tommie!

Kinda bummed that there's no song and dance number though. Do you or Sagebrush have the supplements too, or just the first book? And are they adding more species, or more about same?

Rick

Hi Rick, I have the supplements too. They are not as thick as the first book, but include more species as well as more current germination info on some others previously covered. If you look through the info on the link I sent it sorta gives you an idea what info lies where. I have a shortcut on my desktop for it--saves lots of time.
Tommie

I'll just toss out another site for you to visit, they too have GA-3 and a very nice selection of seeds, alpine & otherwise. Good germination information and articles.
This is where I get a majority of my seed from, and the quality is always great.

~GardenChicken

Here is a link that might be useful: Gardens North

So much good information here!!! Thanks to all for aharing knowledge and links.

I was reading a database online and saw that the temperature requirements were quite specific. Like 68 degrees for 2-4 weeks then 24-39 degrees for 2-4 weeks then move to 55 degrees for germination. What do you do about that middle cold period? My refrigerator isn't that cold (it's 40-42 degrees) and my freezer is colder. My basement stays around 57 degrees when we don't have a fire in the woodstove. How do you achieve the proper temps? Does it really have to be that specific?

I have some seeds with those requirements too. Usually they are the ones more dificult to germinate. Some natives are best stuck outside. some species just need a cold moist stratification, but some need sucessive cycles. I know that certain species (Lilium & Clematis)need a warm moist period, followed by a cold damp period-- In the wild it would take them a year to break germination inhibitors. Guess it just depends--in zone 6 like we are you could put them in the house for the 68 deg--in the freezer for the 24-39 and by that time they could probably go outside for the 55. If space is at a premium you might want to keep them in a moist substrate in a baggie then pot up for the final round.I wouldn't take one source as the gospel tho--- shop around for different info (again I recommend the NEWFS site although it is not all inclusive). Why don't you start a new thread & list the species and gather insight from all the people who visit here? In just the couple days I have been visiting I can see there is a lot of expertise here. I'm sure someone will have experience with specific species they would love to share. If you do--I would certainly look forward to reading it.
Tommie

Sagebrushred & Tommie, I'm inspired by all those seeds being started!!

Tommie, I think I will start a new thread when I have time to list the species. Should have thought of that myself :-)

Received my seeds last night. Great selection. Very happy with what I got. Look forward to getting the supplies together, doing a little research and letting them go into the world.

I don't know about others,but I was unfamiliar with GA3. I found a site that has some good info onusing it for germination and propagation.

jb

Here is a link that might be useful: GA3 uses

jb, Great! Glad you are happy with your seeds.

I've been reading the NEWFS seed index while eating lunch. I can see right now that I'm going to have to order some of those seeds before the deadline. Woodland wildflowers are one of my great loves! The seed sowing information on the web site is very good and detailed.

Tommie, about how many seeds does NEWFS put into a packet?

Just depends on which species. Larger seeds like Magnolia tripetala had about 15, the teeny tiny Gentiana clausa seeds looks like about a tablespoon. Of course with my track record with Gentians--I'll be lucky to get 1 plant out of all those! Got my NARGS seeds today--a good selection!! Definately going to have to be a donor to get in on the really good stuff tho;)I had the newfs seed pared down to 2 packages to go and now I have about 25 more. Oh well so many seeds--so little time. Of course it is the house work that suffers, LOL.
Tommie

OK $3 isn't bad for that many seeds. Glad you like your NARGS selection. Yes, I want to be a donor too. I've made a list of NEWFS seeds I want. My coldframe is full from last year so I've got to move all that stuff out...or build another coldframe! I like that idea:-) The Great Solomon's Seal seedlings were still so small last year, I hate to put them out into the big world just yet. Everything else is big enough to be moved out.

They have a great selection at NEWFS. It's $3 plus 4.95 shipping which means for a min order of $15 you get five packets for $5. At first I thought this was kinda high, but then I went to JJA Seeds. Their prices are higher. Ended up getting some acquilegia and arisaema from them. I'll have to peruse the NEWFS list later.

jb

Here is a link that might be useful: jja seeds

Thanks for the link JB, I really shouldn't have gone there--but sure enjoyed myself:) Looking forward to getting my order from them now. I know the feeling Vegangirl-- I put all my seed pots under screens, but other wise out in the open-- I have been raiding screens from everywhere. When my husband gets in off the road--he is going to be-ummmm- a little shocked--(but he won't be surprised). I'm including a link to Jim Almond's Alpine website. He too has some great propagation info, including the use of GA3--and yes--seeds.
good growing all,
Tommie

Here is a link that might be useful: Alpines for the Enthusiast

Well, I just checked out those two links..jja and Jim Almond's. OH MY !!!! You folks are going to be my downfall LOL!

Rick, did you get your sytrax seed?

Such good links! The Archibalds are well known in my neck of the woods. There are a lot of older members in my chapter. I have seed from them through the exchange but had never been to their web site.

I have no exchange seed yet. Placed my order late 'round about Jan 25. Actually, I bought a couple styrax americanus plants from Ellen Hornig of Seneca Perennials two years ago. (She donated the NARGS seed.) Winters have been so warm here lately that I can't tell if they are hardy. But if I could get a bunch of seedlings going, I'd have a much better chance of finding some cold hardy enough genes.

Rick

Oops I made a mistake. The seed starting mix I mentioned was the one for doing cuttings. The actual recipe is:

2 parts peat moss
2 parts potting soil
1.5 parts sand
1 parts perlite

I apologize for misleading people and I hope no one suffered seed loss.

Yikes,
The Red Faced Balloon

That's OK, at least for me. I haven't started any seeds yet. I did find the chick grit!!!!!! In TN the past weekend.

I haven't started mine yet either. So many projects. Last weekend I built a seed germination station. It's made from 4x4 posts with a slatted roof for shade and has a 2x4 tray with a mesh bottom 2 1/2 feet high(less bending...I hope). It's 4deep and 8 feet long. Should give me plenty of room to sow all the seeds I have.

I received the second round list from NARGS the other day. Have to sit down and make 100 selections. You can get up to 80 seed packs in the second round. $5 bucks per 20.

I have read on a few other threads of your difficulty finding chicken grit. I found a 25 pund bag at the feed store here in town. Heronswood gets it's gravel (same as the chicken grit) from the forest service. The forest service grows thousands of conifers and uses the gravel as a topping on the soil. Probably to reduce fungal growth and weeds. Perhaps there is a company in your area that works on reforestation projects and grows conifers.

Good luck,
jb

jb, Your seed germination station sounds great. DH & DS are working on something for me right now and for their pepper and tomato seeds. Ours will have to be in the basement. They are also building a coldframe. I hope we have enough room!

I just looked at my chick grit and even though on the front of the bag is says "crushed granite" it has a lot of other stuff in it. I didn't even think to look at the ingredients until I opened it up just now and smelled the anise. It says "oyster shell, washed heat treated silica, calcite, potassium sulfate, magnesium sulfate, zinc oxide, calcium carbonate, mananous oxide, iron carbonate, copper oxide, calcium iodate, sodium selenite, sulphur, calcium sulfate, oil of anise." I realize that plants need and use trace minerals but will any of these things have a negative effect on my seeds?

Thanks for the tip on reforestation projects. I don't know if there is one going on here but there are a lot of Christmas tree growers that I will check with.

NARGS 2md Round--I got my seeds last week! I got the 80 packs for $20 and I'm very pleased with what I got. Except for one thing which was my fault. I wanted a veronica but I marked the wrong number and got Vernonia which is Ironweed. We have ironweed growing all over our property:-)

Good Luck with all your projects!
vg

jb, Is the mix recipe in your Oops post the cutting mix or the seed starting mix? I would love to have the cutting mix recipe. Is it for alpines only or a general perennial cutting mix recipe?

The oops recipe is the seed starting mix. The other mix I posted earlier in the thread is a general cuttings mix. I'm not sure how well it would do for some alpines, especially those with crown rot or root rot issues.

Yesterday I went to the Greenhouse and Nursery supply place to purchase ingredients. They didn't have the potting soil. They do sell pre mixed bales that have each of the ingredients that I listed. They don't say what the exact amounts are. I purchased two bales of Sunshine Number 1. It looks very similar to what we worked with at Heronswood. I potted up 36 4 inch seed pots and it seemed to go OK. We'll see how it does in a month or so.

jb

jb, I don't know what my problem is but I can't seem to find the cutting mix recipe earlier in this thread:-( I'm going to use the recipe Rick reccomended for my JiffyMix, if I can ever get some sand! I would like to have your cutting mix recipe though. I have several perennials I want to start cuttings of as the season progresses.

Sounds like your seed project is coming right along! I did wash about 20 4" pots but that is as far as I have gone with mine. Did you get your second round seeds ordered? I plan to sort my seeds according to requirements and hope to get them started in the next week or so.

The cuttings recipe was just a 1 to 1 ratio of peat and perlite. Half and half.

I thought I had said that earlier, but I didn't. Hmm, memeory is a funny thing.

jb

Don't worry about it if you don't have sand. For cuttings, jb's mix is probably the most universally used. The important thing is that a very large volume of air is part of the mix as compared to soils that plants normally grow in. So in general, the coarser the texture the better. Using peat instead of the Jiffy mix would likely be better in this respect.

Inside I use jb's half and half or something similar. Because I get a lot of gusty, windy days outside, I switch to pool filter sand, which is very sharp and washed better than any washed sand I have ever seen. This gives weight (ballast) to my pots so they don't get blown into the neighbor's yard. Animals tend to leave them alone too.

The thread below from the Far North Forum might help too.

Rick

Here is a link that might be useful: Cutting Propagation

JB and Rick, thanks for the good information! I'll check out that link, I've been out of town for four days.