Keep posting till the happy ending.
ARIF

Hi Hans-Werner,
It's been 11 days,are they still holding on? Lora

Yes I think so.
Sorry for withholding my photo recordings.
The stem had meanwhile got very soft and a mixture of brown and yellow and I cut it away letting a remainder of only 20 cm.
The stalklets (20 cm of lengtth !)- whose growth was clearly so much stimulated by the growing seedpods on the top - are still very firm, but they are becoming yellowish now as well.

Hans-Werner

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As I already indicated - the length of the remaining 2 stalklets is simply striking. Although I did not initially remove the flowers which had failed the respective stalklets of these dried up very quickly.

Hans-Werner

Dear embryos
Please do not quit keep growing.

Hi Hans-Werner,
I've got my fingers crossed,good luck! Lora

The capsules are slowly becoming yellowish and wrinkled now.
Absolutely within the normal time schedule.

Thank you for your good wishes -
I am absolutely confident.

Hans-Werner

Hi, Still waiting to hear if your seeds appear to have viable embryos in them. Pretty incredible, if you ask me!
spiderwoman

Thanks for your patient waiting.

The first capsule has split and I harvested exactly 66 BIG dark seeds with common plump embryos inside. On the other hand the count of underdeveloped seeds ("chaff" = without embryo) was surprisingly low, indicating that this cultivar is although not a strong but an efficient seed producer.

That is now very good news - please consider that the darkest hippeastrum I possess is one Royal Velvet.
However I blame this hybrid for its very unsatisfying flower shape. Sorry - even the photo on the advertising website of the firm LUDWIG is not convincing - exhibiting such a lopsided bloom.
It is difficult for me to express it more closely - but in my eyes it has no real "hippeastrum face".

Now, the cut flower on the photo on the left side is not beautifull either, but it is far more dark - and the pollen donor, this spotted dark purple - this one has hippeastrummateous character the way I "see" hippeastrums and therefore this kind of crosspollination was so important for me.
I already took a Photo recording - YePp.

Hans-Werner

Hooray for you! I eagerly await any more photos! Lora

Thank you for sharing your incredible experiment with us! I am thrilled to hear of your success.
I have a new dark amy this year, named Black Pearl that has two fat buds emerging now and I am most anxious to see them open. The bulb was the largest that I've ever had at 40cm and I paid an outrageous price for it at after the holiday sales. I wonder if you have any thoughts about fertilizing the blossoms? I have pollen of Pink Impression (my new favorite this year), Red Lion, and Exotic Star. Thank you for sharing your success with this experiment and helping to educate us all.
spiderwoman

I have been following along with this too. Hans congratulations on this experiment working out for you. Now all we have to do is wait 2 year to see the blooms from this cross. :-)

Sierra

Hello
Congratulations. A performence unheard of. I am sure they will grow,
ARIF

hello AMA-friends,

I thought this message gone, but found it back on my computer.
If I remember correctly I posted it in march 2003 ...

I 'ld like to inform you of the following:
On my birthday end of january I got some cut-flower amaryllis cybister. Now at that time I had no other amaryllis in flower, so I couldn't cross-pollinate.
The cybister-stems looked strong, and I took old pollen from the fridge, and put it on the stigma to see what would happen.
I placed them in daylight with some chamomile tea ( against rotting and funghi ) added to the water, all in a glass vase so that light could fall on all of the green parts of the stem.
Two of the seedpods were swelling !
Three months later the part of the stem under water was still strong and looked healthy, above the water it was dehydrated and shriveling: the seedpods were ripening.
I collected 9 (!) good looking nice black seeds in all ( though not as flat as usual, they were more 'rippled' ) and after one day of drying I floated them on water with again a bit of chamomile tea.
Now, 2 weeks later, the first root is showing !!!, although now I think only three of the seeds have possibilities ( they are swollen - 6 other stay flat ).

Next year I think I will try this with allmost all of the stem under water, and see what happens.

That last remark: I didn't do it.
One of the bulbs was eaten by a narcissus bulb fly, the other two have not flowered yet.
At that time there was discussion about chamomile-tea and its uses. It was said to help seeds germinating, and to act against rotting and funghi-development. - I did NOT need to cut the stem, so that all the energy in the stem would be available to the development of the seeds.

Anyway: Hans Werner: congratulations, and thank you for reminding me of this experiment.

Jaap

Congratulations, Jaap!

That is great experiences with this Kamillen-Tee.

The time demand of your Cybister seed pod formation - that is simply astonishing. 3 months eq. 13 weeks - that is clearly more than the maximum of 9 weeks I experienced when my Hippeastrum aulicum v.robustum develops seed pods in winter.

Hans-Werner

Hans-Werner,

Thanks for sharing your pics in this thread and another I asked you for a pic in. After seeing your seed pod pics I realize how they are suppose to look when cross polinating works. I have a couple of pods now and if I had not seen what yours look like I probably would have though I failed again and cut them off before they got this large.

Thanks!

Ok Thank you Mrbrownthumb

Now I have harvested 44 seeds from the second capsule. Besides this lower count I observed a comparably higher count of undeveloped seeds to have originated in that pod.

I like to include one photo from the first "harvest" -
I found theses seeds to be appearing particularly "beautifull" - but clearly my enthousiasm about this fortunate success plays its part in that estimation, too:

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Hi Hans-Werner
That is a fascinating experiment that you did. I have yet to come across any cut flower hippiastrums at any of the local florist but will keep my eyes open. I just wanted to mention that I used to work in the wholesale cut flower industry in Miami and two things that were always stressed when handling flowers 1. Cutting and re-cutting the stem every couple of days. Importantly this operation must be conducted using very sharp instruments while the stems are submerged in water. This latter step is important because air gets trapped in the vessels upon cutting and it hinders the uptake of solution. 2. The use of a good quality floral preservative. I used to run experiments for the company I worked for. The preservative feeds the flower substantially increasing its lifespan. From what I have heard a mild citric acid solution is helpful as a pre treatment before going into the preservative as it makes the flowers thirsty so they will absorb more preservative. The preservative we used was a product called "crystal". I don't know if it is available where you are but it was the best of the ones we tried. Don't ask me what the other brands were because that was over twenty years ago and I just donÂt remember. By the way temperature is also an important factor. You were obviously very successful with what you did but maybe some of what I have mentioned will help to give a higher number of viable seed the next time you do it. Mind you, I donÂt want to step on anyoneÂs toes. You are definitely one of the experts on this hippiastum form and my experience comes from work with other flowers.

Hello Hans-Werner,
Contgratulations !!!
Here are a few helpful tips for the next time you try this.
I have not tried "Crystal" reccommended by Garden colors, but when I was working out the parameters for growing seeds on scapes in vases I found that changing the water EVERY DAY
repeat EVERY DAY worked as well as Flora Life. I tried both
distilled water and tap water at room temperature. Our local
tap water is treated with both chlorine & fluoride.
I have taken one scape from the stage before the buds emerged from the capsule all the way through blooming and
to seed formation. The seeds sprouted and I let them grow 3
months before terminating the experiment. I recommend using
distilled water which I buy in the grocery store, but well
water and good tap water will work. The key for me and the
people in the Amaryllis Study Group has been changing the water EVERY DAY. We have only tried this with large flowered
tall scape and short scape varieties. However, the entire class of Gracilis type amaryllis is founded on a cross of species just after World War II as related by Traub in his books and articles. It is a fascinating story and showed the same difficulties with a race to get mature seeds
before the scapes rotted.

In the USA less than 1% of amaryllis bulbs are used to produce scapes for the florist trade. In Europe 30% of bulbs are used to produce commercial cut flowers. These figures are from 1994, the last year I have seen figures
for.

This is a very useful technique for me as I often give seminars to Plant Societies and Garden Clubs. In moving
blooming or seed pod growing plants I often break scapes
which I finish in vases. I just cut them at the break
and change the water every day. I try to make my protocols
simple and minimal. I have not had to worry for instance
about air bubbles in the hollow scape when I change the water. The scape will draw it up.

Cooler temperature may slow your flowers down, but you don't want this for your seed pods.

I have noted very long seed maturing times in a couple of
cybister/papilio hybrids.

Hans I would like to understand the characteristics you do
do not like about Royal Velvet. I am not arguing. I just
want to understand. Is it a diferent petal shape, flower
outline, petal tip, or profile?
Bill Warren amstgrp@yahoo.com

Thank you for the many additional informations and recommendations.

Now as regards to Royal Velvet - the buds are so plump similarly to the more extreme Minerva, and the blooms are simply plump too, and lack any elegance.
I have seen this very beautifull photo of one "Royal Velvet" in a recent thread here - this is one other hybrid I am sure.
A characteristic of Royal Velvet is these almost black veins - which are absent in the displayed bloom.
Royal Velvet tends to form petaloid extra structures from the upper segments on the right and left - and this is a feature the mentioned Minerva is well known for.

That taken all together I believe it indicates that I have a specialized way to see the beauty of an amaryllis. I do not like irregularities and therefore the double forms do not mean anything to me. There are even many of the modern single hybrids with narrower segments and a very "clear" structure which do not find appreciation to my eyes.

I got so aware of this fact when I watched the image taken from an RHS amaryllis exhibtion, displayed in Veronica's book.

Among these manymany blooms I found only ONE - on the right side in the background which I found to be the incarnation pardon inflorification of a real "knight star" - indeed I already had a strong mental association with a veritable starfish (I shall post the respective section of this foto showing this bloom).

It is an example for my idea of hippeastrums with "character" meaning that the single bloom (or the entity of the flower umbel) bears a strong symbolic POWER.

My discussion on these "fangs" previously elsewhere was not a joke at all but an example for symbolism in and vision from an amaryllis flower (The flower being a head and having a face).

Actually the one with the highest symbolic force is still this one from the PapDonAmb nest:

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it reminds me of old style german letters or simply a "Gothik" ornamental symbol

If I regard in comparison Appleblossom or Royal Velvet I have to state that they are majestatic. But their majesty is static - or "dead" and, while Appleblossom is so very regularly shaped it is like a monument of stone:

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and I would be agreeing with Royal Velvet if it had a comparable degree of (still life) perfection like Appleblossom but it clearly has not.

Hans-Werner

Hans,
you may find this interesting. I like Royal Velvet as the first Black amaryllis and have acquired for the people who attend my seminars and the botanical shows I display at Benfica, Black Pearl, Red Pearl, and Black Beauty; all
Black/Red amaryllises in the last 2 years. My intent is that they (especially Black Beauty) will be available to
potential breeders in the US for the next 20 years. A year
ago a friend told me that he liked them as they started to shrivel and turn crispy as they finished because of the dark light absorbing black color. Two more people in the
last month and a half have said the same thing. Amaryllis
are amazing in so many ways. Bill

I have once seen this Black Beauty in trhe Keukenhof exhibition, Lisse, The Netherlands.
Black Beauty has only 2 blooms per scape and I guess that this is the reason why it was not been widely commercialized.

But this rather old hybrid surpasses easily the more modern Royal Velvet in its far better symmetry, color intensity and silky shining and with its far more light and airy appearance. Since I saw the blooms of Black Beauty I was always dreaming of a copy of that cultivar...

Hans-Werner

There are even many of the modern single hybrids with narrower segments and a very "clear" structure which do not find appreciation to my eyes.

I got so aware of this fact when I watched the image taken from an RHS amaryllis exhibtion, displayed in Veronica's book.

Among these manymany blooms I found only ONE - on the right side in the background which I found to be the incarnation pardon inflorification of a real "knight star" - indeed I already had a strong mental association with a veritable starfish (I shall post the respective section of this foto showing this bloom)

Look here - this one small flowering half in the background on the rigt side - that is virtually a starfish

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{{gwi:379281}}

Yes a striking color pattern.
I am under the impression that Royal Velvet was registered in 1956 and Black Beauty in 1999. You are the second person that has said that Black Beauty has been available in Europe
for 15 years or more.
Black Beauty is slow to mature (the opposite of Donau(Danube)which I had many t.c. clones bloom at just under a year with one scape of 2 blossoms). It should bloom with 3
and 4 flowers per scape after being in the garden 2 to 3
years. I don't know about pot grown.

If you want to grow your hybrids outside all year in cold
climate, put a substantial layer, 10 to 26 inches, of hay or straw over the bed on October 1 and remove it March 1.
This will give them the advantages of the deeper roots they
grow in the garden(more offsets, bigger bulbs sooner, more scapes sooner,etc.) Your intent is to raise the soil freeze line above the bulbs.
Bill

Hi Bill:

Meanwhile I have some suspicion that we are talking about different cultivars.

"Royal Velvet" is a modern hybrid; Breeder Ludwig & Co (The Netherlands); Date of registration 1996; Classification: Leoploldii.

"Black Beauty" was created by A.Chapman, gardener to Lt.Col. George L.Holford of Westonbird, Gloucester, Great Britain, around 1900, beside the other dark reds "Black Knight" and "Black Prince", for the famous Westonbirt collection.

This is the informations I extracted from Veronica's book, from the pages 63 and 46, respectively.

However, thank you for the outdoors cultivation hints.
Unfortunately this is impossible in my region...

Hans-Werner

Hans-Werner
I'm going to try this, I have two stems that came from a Florist... When they've opened a bit more Please may I send you a photo of them?
Thanks

Bitteschoen, immer her damit!

Liebe Gruesse & beste Wuensche
Hans-Werner

HUH?????????????
Pardon

Easy there,Ninecrow. It translates out to "your welcome,I am here for you. Warm greetings and best wishes. Lora

My Apologys Hans-Werner...
I don't know German and It was late this end, coming up to Midnight...

One of the Cut Steams is Salmon, I think, the other... It's just opening and I can't really tell right now...

Today I inspected my "Salmon" because the bulb stuck so loosely in the pot.
The outer fleshy scales where in the progress of serious rotting. Only few new fresh roots were visible, which was not surprising because I had forced this bulb under a very low temperature.
I have self pollinated all open blooms and cut both stems off, cleaned the bulb and put it into fresh substrate and transferred it to my main growing-area with a metal halide high pressure discharge lamp.

Needless to say: Both cut stems are designed for the same procedure as described above...
So I wish you, ninecrow, and myself good luck (...again)
The premises for my second experiment are far more awkward because both stems are considerabliest weaker than the previously purchased stalk.

Hans-Werner

Thank You Hans-Werner for your Good Luck Wishes... Same to you too

Hi Hans-Werner,
I'm sorry to hear about the rot problems :( Do you have acsess to Indole-3-butyric Acid 0.1% ? My H. johnsonii arrived without any viable roots so I cleaned it and gave it a dusting. It had a grip on the soil in 3 days. Liebe Greusse, Lora

It was an unpleasant surprise - although to a certain degree foreseeable because I know that often bulbs of inferior quality are appropriated for the preparation of pot plants.
Fresh coco and elevated temperature will do it (I am confident inthat - by experience).
Until now I haver used growth hormones, guess!
However be sure I shall keep that in memory

Kindest regards
Hans-Werner

Something swallowed one part of my statement:
Until, now I have never used... plant growth hormones (nor other growth hormones *LOL*)

Hans-Werner

Hello
My biggest problem is root rot specialy in potted bulbs.I blame over watering for it.It has happened in substrate of pure coco,sand & coco half & half and garden soil.
Eucharis Amazunica is effected the most.
I may be wrong in my assumption.
Any advice.
ARIF

Hans-Werner, I Selfed my Cut stem today, the one I Think is Salmon, I'll let you know how it does...
The other I think is Apple Blossom

Hans-Werner~

Look at this from Hadeco.

Looks a bit like the one from your 22Feb. post of the pic from Read's book, doesn't it?

Here is a link that might be useful: {{gwi:379272}}

Hans,

Hope all is well. Haven't heard from you lately, hope this is because you are busy doing things you love, not things you have to do.

Plant_Guy

Here is a link that might be useful: My Amaryllis Page

Will this work on a cut seedpod with the pedicel attached to it? I (Arrgghhhhhhhhhhhh) accidentally hit my GilmarXWedding Dance seedpod while cleaning the glass of my patio door. I heard a "click" sound and there rolling in the floor was the seedpod. It detached from that place where the scape and the pedicels (stalklets as Hans calls them) connect. This seedpod is scheduled to be harvested in a week or 2. It is now in a small dish with the cut end submerged in water placed in a bright window.

Maria-let us know if this works! I am still wondering how Hans' project trned out...Hans, where are you Mr. Giggles??

I surely will. I measured the circumference of the seedpod just now...13 1/2 cm. I'll try to measure it every day as I change the water.

Yes it can be done. The seedpod was fine in a few days and eventually started to dry up. Eventually it cracked open and 39 viable seeds were harvested. Now this seedpod was due to ripen ina week or two as I already mentioned. I just don't know if it will also be successful with younger seedpods. By the way, I had to make a clean cut off the end everytime I see a red coloration to make sure no rot would invade the seedpod.

Tonight I just cut off a scape of Emerald that I have pollinated last week. I placed it in a jar of water to try this method. I did this not to try an experiment but to save my Emerald (newly purchased) bulb. It has shrunk so much after putting out 3 scapes. I was thinking, the pollination would definitely not take in this situation anyway. So, why not cut the scape and try to continue the pollination process using this method. At the same time, I would be giving the poor stressed bulb some chance to survive.

Wow, you guys reminded me of something. Dec 25 I had to make an unexpected exteneded trip out of country. I cut some beautiful blooms from some plants and placed in a bucket in garage for my neighbor to pick up. Someone here forgot to call her. So in late Jan. when I returned for a week before heading out again I noticed the "dead" flowers had seed pods. Gone away again and just didn't think to check them until reading this thread. I'm not sure who these are and of course who mother and donor are. I can narrow it down, though, to those that I ordered from Scheepers. Is there any hope for them? I cut off as much rot as possible and have them in water with a bit of unprocessed sugar? BTW... they were in a cool, dark area of garage, that is heated but that area ranged from 40-75F over the past 3 months. Should they be in light now? Thanks, geekgranny=alice

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Geekgranny...cut away the red part at the end on the pedicel/seedpod stem and place in water. Change water everyday. Place in bright window. If you see the red coloration again, cut again. Don't cut too much so would have enough stem/pedicel to go till the seedpod matures. You have nothing to lose but everything to gain if you give this a try.

Alice,

I'ld keep them dry for now, and let the energy that is left in the pods be absorped in the seeds.
If you put them in the light now they could get 'sunburn', I wouldn't do that; not too bright anyway.
temperature: I don't know: when cold they would ripen slower,
hotter: stored water evaporates faster: I'm inclined to say not warmer than they used to be.

All this is guesswork, and logical thinking.
You could give different pods different treatments: You've got a chance to do this little research ( helping us all )

Yours, Jaap

Update: I went ahead and opened up the largest, most mature pod, the only one that still had a small part of stem attached to it. Below are pics. The others I have removed from water and placed back near where they were for so many months, neglected. It is not getting as cold in there now; temps range mid 60s-80sF.

Now, on to do a search to see what to do next. geekgranny=alice

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Sir Hans, I would love to know the results of the "invitro" fertilization attempt. Have the seedlings flowered yet? I see great potential in the two crosses that you have made. =)

The seeds had been looking good, but, I presume that there had been something not in order with that batch of coco fiber substrate I used to embed the seeds. In short, I received but two seedlings, and these were weak, and then I gave up on that grex. Now, considering the dark parental colors I must state "what a pity" - particularly considering that spectacular and so well documented start "in vitro" - On the other hand my preferences have clearly shifted. My main interest is focused on these few seeds I receive, occasionally, from pollinating H.papilio with large-flowering TETs.

Love It!!! Thanks so much for resurrecting this highly informative and entertaining thread from way before my time on this forum....

Donna