Hi Everyone! This is just an up-date on my pollinating of my Papilio!! They are looking good, the one on the left is the size of a walnut, and that is with Tres Chic, and the one on the right, a tad smaller, is a "cocktail" of about 5 different pollens, so if I get viable seeds with the second one I may never know who the Daddy is. This is very exciting, they are nice and firm and green!! Thanks for looking!!
Donna
{{gwi:383824}}From P A P I L I O S

How FUN!

I love IT!!!!!

SHOULD I BE EXCITED!!??

Donna {{gwi:383825}}From P A P I L I O S
{{gwi:383826}}From P A P I L I O S

Yes!

Cheers, Blanca

Donna!

You did it!

Yep! They will make it! Now, all you have to do is to make sure there are no tan colored dots on the seeds. Those, you can toss. All of the totally dark ones, you should try to sow.

Way to GO!!!!

Ann

Yayyyy!!!
Well done Donna!
Congratulations!!!

Thanks Everyone!! Thanks for your encouraging words, I will post pictures when the pods open!! Donna

Hi Everyone, This is just an update. I am worried about the stalk on my Papilio and the seed pods are taking "forever" to ripen!! I mean I think it's taken several weeks longer for the pods to mature and they still haven't turned although they look like they may be starting. The scape looks like a stalk of rhubarb!! The stalk is still nice and firm, but what about the red?? "The plant is where it always has been, hasn't been moved, in a very sunny bay window. Thanks,

Donna
{{gwi:383827}}From FLAMING PEACOCK

Donna

I wouldn't think color of the scape is an issue, but firmness would be. If you sense any mushiness, cut above it and ripen the seedpods with the scape in a vase of water. Don't forget to upend the scape and fill it with water before you put it in the vase. Put your finger over the end to trap the water in before you submerge the end so there are no air bubbles. I ripened a couple of seed pods this way. DON'T CUT UNLESS YOU HAVE TOO, but if the base turns mushy, you may have to.

You've come this far...my fingers are crossed for you!
Kristi

Donna, for what it's worth, I did notice that the seed pods on Exotic Star seemed to take longer to ripen and they kinda remained pretty green. They finally did open a crack and I am growing some cute little ES x Pink Floyd seedlings now. Just a little different than the usual hybrids we're used to I guess. Good luck! Alana

Thanks Kristi and Alana, the stalk is still very firm, but I AM watching it closely!! My fingers are crossed too!! Thanks, Donna

Well, the moment I've been waiting for had arrived!!! Hmmmm! I harvested the first pod Papilio x Tres Chic and kind of got a mixed bag. Most of the seeds are pock marked with white, but a few of them are black on both sides. Even the pock marked ones feel like there is a seed inside! I am soaking them all for now, any suggestions as to whether I should remove the bad ones? If you view this picture at 150% you can find a few good ones. What should I do?? I await some advise. The other pod should be ripe in a few days!! Thanks in advance,
Donna{{gwi:383828}}From P A P I L I O S

Just pick out the good ones Donna. The ones with tan marks, chaff seeds, will not germinate as the embryo inside is undeveloped.

I do see some good ones...precious!

Donna I would soak them all and leave them soak for a good long time (weeks even). A lot of my seeds from Appleblossom showed that white, but had seeds in them as you've said, and they all germinated and grew for me.
Separate them from the others but still let them soak until you see roots. What's the harm in letting them go for a while?
PS - I always removed the chaff and soaked the white seeds in water.

Donna,

I agree with Jackie!

Separate them, just in case they decay, but try them all. You never know.

Go for it, and let us know!

This is quite exciting!

Ann

Thanks everyone!!!

OK GUYS, HOLD ON TO YOUR HATS!! ARE YOU SITTING DOWN??
I just harvested the second seed pod on Papilio and it is chock full of fat seeds!!! Granted a few of them are pock-marked, but there are at least 3 times as many good fat black seed in this Pod!!! The seeds have a different look than the others in the first pod, the seeds are much much fatter in this one!

Now this is the one I dabbed with a "cocktail" of pollens consisting of Lady Jane, Limona, Exotic Star (these 3 pollens had been stored for several months) and Tres Chic (again) and Grafitti, both fresh at the time!! Now, I mixed them all together so there would be even distribution and I'm leaving it up to you guys to tell me who would have been the most compatible! I seriously don't think it was Tres Chic again, because the seeds look sooo different, there is virtually no chaff, and I'll bet there are more than 30 good seeds!! {{gwi:383829}}From P A P I L I O S
{{gwi:383831}}From P A P I L I O S

When you view this bump it up to 150% and you can see the thickness of the seeds!! I'm excited!! All opinions as to who the Daddy is will be appreciated!!!!! Thanks!!!!

Donna!!

Exotic Star and Graffiti. Both has Papilio in it's genes.

But then that's just my thoughts. And I am NO EXPERT.

I know this is probably a dumb question, but could there be more than one pollinator or does it all come from just 1 grain of pollen??? Now the Grafitti pollen was much fresher than Exotic Star hmmmmmmmm
Thanks!!

One tiny pollen grain into one ovule, which resides inside one ovary,is what it takes to make one seed.If you used mixed pollen you could have seeds from each of the pollen donors,except where there is complete incompatability.Some breeders,including myself use pollen of a known easy pollenator, to cause a pod to develop,and not abort,while at the same time using pollen from a variety which has otherwise refused to pollenate the female of choice. The weaker pollenator gets a free ride. Upon growing out the seedlings,most of the time, one can tell which was the pollen parent. Sometimes, this won't work,sometimes, it will.
Fresher pollen could make a difference, since whichever pollen grain grows down to the ovule first, is the one which fertilizes the ovule. Younger, healthier,more vigorous,just like in humans,and so many other things.
Del

Thanks Del, So it is possible that in this second pod there could be 3 pollinators?? Tres Chic, because it took the first time, Exotic Star and Grafitti!!! Limona and Exotic Star were the oldest, now that I think about it the Lady Jane was fresh also, as I have 3 bulbs and had a constant supply of flowers for many many weeks, I had forgotten that. They are all soaking now, the good seeds separated from the bad and we'll see what happens!! Thanks!!

Donna

Hi Everyone, I am not having any success germinating my Papilio x Tres Chic, they still haven't rooted, still floating but no roots. But, my other Papilio x maybe Exotic Star or Grafitti, have rooted, quite a few of them! The problem is, there are a few seedlings that are quite red! I am worried, it this a serious problem and should I get the red ones out of there, what causes them to be red and have they contaminated the rest of the seedling? In the past I have have maybe a little red on a few seeding and have ignored it and just planted them and never really followed up on their progress. But with these I am concerned, what do you all think? I'd appreciate any and all thoughts!!

Donna {{gwi:383833}}From FLAMING PEACOCK
{{gwi:383835}}From FLAMING PEACOCK

Look at these pictures at 150% and you can really see the red!! Help!!!!!

Donna, Use a double to triple strength fungicide solution,such as captan, and dip the red seedlings for a few seconds, Then plant them in a container seperate from the rest.The red may be harmless,but to be more sure-. I use 4 inch pots,but any size is fine for now. Do not leave the sprouted seedlings which have sunken to the bottom,in the water. Plant them,root down,leaf up,whichever is showing.They need more oxygen than they can get under the water. Young seedlings must be kept quite damp,even after they are transplanted to soil,until they attain a bulb size sufficient to carry them a couple of days,like 6mm-8mm or appx 1 quarter inch.Then, if you overwater them,they will rot.
The red on hippeastrum is a curative dye,created by the plant itself in response to damage to its tissues,according to some recent studies.However since we don't know if it's from tissues swelling too fast or a pathogen,I recommend the fungicide. If you were growing it invitro,I would also recommend antibiotics. It depends entirely how important the seedlings are to you.
Del

The red on hippeastrum is a curative dye, created by the plant itself in response to damage to its tissues, according to some recent studies.

Del, you are so knowledgeable. I would love to read more. Are the studies available online?

Thanks!
Carol

I don't remember where I read it,but I've read it more than one place. It probably was a paper,published by a prof or grad student at one of the universities around the world.
Del

Del, Thanks for the information, I removed the red streaked seedling, there were four, and soaked them in water that was laced with Captan, I just dumped in about 1/4 teaspoon, for several hours, then planted and marked them. I also potted up about 5 or 6 others that looked pretty good. I still have a few more germinating, should be about a total of 10 or so before I'm through. It will be interesting to see what, if anything, the red ones do.

On the other hand, the Papilio x Tres Chic did not germinate, they are still soaking but I fear they have all turned to mush. Oh Well, but I did so want just a few that might have had some red in them. Hopefully I will get another shot next year. Good luck with your Papilio x your red double!!

Donna

How are these seedlings doing now ? :)

Hi, My Papilio seedlings are growing, but won't be setting any records. I have 4 4" pots with between 4-6 per pot and unfortunately, 3 of the pots were with my plants, (inside) that came down with a case of the "thrips" !! They were sprayed along with the other 5 plants and seem do be doing OK. They are all due for another spraying, hopefully this will take care of any further problems in that department. I am currently foliar spraying them with a weak solution of Miracle
Grow, will increase the strength as they get a little larger. I'm thinking that Graffiti is the Papa and maybe that is why they're rather on the small size. I have other seedlings planted about the same time that are two to three times this size. I'm happy they are still green and growing, but I won't be handing out any cigars anytime soon!! Thanks for asking,

Donna {{gwi:383836}}From FLAMING PEACOCK

I'm open to any suggestions as to what I could be doing for them. They get several hours of sun a day (through a window) as do all my other seedlings, so far no fungus gnats!

Hello Donna;
thank you for documenting.
The Rhubarb color is pigment formation - so, the light conditions at your windowsill must be quite good. The same color can often be observed on the bases of the outer (older) leaves.
The "good seeds" bear EITHER the parentage of "Exotic Star" [DIP]. OR, provided that "Graffiti" [DIP; at least did I conclude this instantly, from the appearance of the flowers (Thanks to MARIAVA for showing)] does produce viable pollen (what I do not know yet) THEN you have a mixture of both crosspollination results and them seedlings thereof now, respectively, THAT I congratulate you to your success!

Nice looking babies Donna!

If you compare them with your other seedlings, and they are looking to be almost just half of their size, this would confirm that Graffiti is "Da Papa". Although leaf/plant size can be passed on to siblings by the pollen parent, some of your seedlings will also inherit papilio's size or a mix of papilio's and Graffiti's size.

Sir Hans...Yes, Graffiti does produce very good pollens and will be accepted by some "universal" varieties. My pollination attempts from my 20 plus Graffiti bulbs using both TETS, DIPS and "universal" pollens this season has all failed or been rejected. It is possible that Graffiti is a triploid like a lot of sonatinis are. We'll see what this beauty holds in the next seasons.
{{gwi:383837}}

EPIC, amaryllogenius AWESOMENESS!
Thank you for showing. That is a beautiful venation to behold, on the flower segments.

Btw. Although I largely neglected my collection in the last 2 y; I !do! have them, actually, a number of genuine seedlings of H.papilio x "Exotic Star". Small but healthy. Approx. 12 strong specimens with hazelnut-sized bulbs among approx. 40 seedlings in total.

Hi Everyone!

I think it is time for an update on these papilio seedlings. I have 5 pots with 4 to 6 per pot and all are growing well. I have 3 bulbs, one in each of 3 community pots that are huge..I mean I wouldn't be too surprised if they bloomed next year!!! (a bit optimistic I'm sure). Even the 4 red ones that Del suggested I soak in Captan, which I did, are alive, albiet the smallest.

I will take pictures in a day or two so you can see that I'm not fibbing!!..With the differences in sizes for all these seedlings, I am really hoping to have more than one daddy.The unfortunate thing is that when I re-potted them to larger pots I didn't want to disturb the roots, so I just left them snuggling..and I mean snuggling!! So far they seem happy with their companions..but if and when they bloom, I will have to do the dirty deed and pull them apart. And another thing.. the pictures of papilio # 1's first bloom are nothing compared to the beauty of this flower the next year..that one I will post now as I have them in my album...so it goes to show if you are disappointed in the flowers the first year give it another year before judgement... Stay tuned..

Donna

Here she is the second year..I know I've posted these elsewhere before, but I just want them to be on this thread for future reference..
{{gwi:383838}}
{{gwi:383839}}

she was kind of gawky the first time, but now she's curvy and sophisticated...

The pot of papilios that I lost to the NBF(4 bulbs) was not this one. It was another from a different vendor on EBay that was equally as beautiful (sob)..

Donna

By the way, last year I went crazy with about 8 papilio flowers to play with and I pollenated everything that was availible..not much luck I have a couple with Naranja, but they just don't look right..the leaves seem too thick to me (as all other pap crosses have been narrow) so I might have goofed. But, I do have some.. believe it or not.., Benfica x Papilio!! I did 3 pods on Benfica..one was a self which I gave away, the other two yielded a small amount of seeds, of which I gave a few to a friend and kept the rest. I now have about 8 tiny well formed seedling of this cross and there is no doubt in my mind that I didn't goof on this one! For the longest time they looked like blades of new grass and stayed that way for months..finally a few months ago they started to grow and they are perfectly formed "tiny" bulbs with 3 to four leaves! About 6 of the seedling look great the other 2 are not vigirous. They look exactly like seedlings of Santiago x Chico given to me by Rebecca..also she gave out some Pap x Chico which look the same also, although they are much much larger even though they are at least 6 months younger..Well, I guess I've bored you enough..Thanks for reading..

Soooo pretty! Sorry you got NFB! :-(
See your email for a personal note from me!
K

Hi Again,

Here are the pictures I promised...It's hard to see them since they are sooo crowded, but here they are..

{{gwi:383840}}

{{gwi:383841}}

This was taken in early Sept and I thought I detected a little rot so I powdered it's behind with captan...

{{gwi:383842}}

Nice growing, Donna! Beautiful photos, all of them! I just love Papilio! She's so flowing and gracious, and her coloration is so unique!

I'm an NBF survivor, myself, Donna... so I know the devastation involved. The worst part for me was losing the mother bulb of Minerva, the very first bulb I ever bought. I sobbed when I found her too far gone to save. I had kept her alive and flourishing for over 11 years, and losing her was like losing her namesake, the American Bulldog I had named Minerva... who started my whole interest in bulbs to begin with.

I had been Christmas shopping over 11 years ago, and when I saw the bulb display, I thought I was reading the name on the box wrong. It couldn't be possible that a flower was named the same thing as my beloved bulldog! It's such an unusual name! I had to have it, and bought it right then and there... for a whole $3.

That bulb made three moves with our family, survived neglect, my ignorance in culture, and gave me so much joy in blooming! In 11 years, she only took 2 years off from flowering, to rest a little more, I expect.

I do still have her daughter bulb, and I'm hoping she's going to make it. She feels firm, but that's not always an indication that everything is fine.

I didn't mean to co-opt your thread and change subjects, Donna... your mention of NBF just brought back the memory, and I wanted to share...

Your bulbs look marvelous... and I hope to see future photos of more lovely blooms!

Jodi,
Not to worry about changing the subject during a thread, I do it myself all the time when something pops into my head..most of us do... Did you only have one daughter from your Minerva after all those years? I seem to remember that you posted their picture..maybe when you seperated them? I'd have to look it up. If you only have one that is unfortunate and I do hope she survives..you probably should keep her under lock and key.;-) Isn't it strange how you can become so attached to some of these bulbs that mean something special to you..Most of them can easily be replaced but some of them are so special that you only want that one!! Hope daughter Minerva flourishes for you...

I probably won't post any more pictures on this thread until something monumental happens..and I'll have to go searching for it.. as it once again.. slides into oblivion...

Donna

I enjoyed rereading this thread and your update, Donna.

Though I don't post often I still read postings frequently.

I saw some Papilio bulbs at a local nursery but they were all a bit soft so I did not buy any. I will keep looking as they are so beautiful.

Thanks, Donna... yes, there was only the one large daughter bulb produced... so far, she seems ok. I'm keeping an eye on her. I just hate to see such a strong genetic line fade away... I doubt I'll ever find another Minerva that can thrive under such harsh conditions, especially with the commercial world progressing such as it is, with quality pushed aside for the sake of profit.

Well... whether you dig up this thread or begin another, I'd love to see your beautiful Papilio when it blooms again! :-)

I ran across this thread today. Very interesting to see the photos of the babies and of course the mother plant is gorgeous. Please update us if any of the seedlings bloom this year.

Hi Everyone!
Still no blooms but I have two bulbs that I feel are pretty darned close!! I have a total of 17 bulbs growing from this cross in 4 seperate pots. All different sized rangeing from a good sized plum down to an extra large grape! I'm hoping that there may be at least two fathers.. since there is such a variation in the sizes. Here are a few pictures taken today..
The two pots with the largest bulbs stayed in all summer in the sunny bay window, the other two I put out on the deck..more sun...I didn't put any of these in the ground and I won't.
When I see the first bud emerging you'll most likely hear me holler whoopie where ever you are!!

Donna

This is my largest one in pot # 1...

{{gwi:383843}}

This is the largest in pot # 2...

{{gwi:383844}}

the rest are walnut (in shell) sized or smaller. Also, the 3 seedlings that showed red on the roots were soaked in a captan/water solution and then planted and they lived!! They are the large grape sized ones! Good advice from Del that was taken and it worked..!!

On another note, I also have 5 seedlings from a more recent year of papilio x either Sweet Nymph or Lily Star..I have pictures of the seeds of pap x Sweet Nymph and none x Lily Star and somehow I lost the label and am going by my pictures of the seeds which I have labeled. Is it possible for Sweet Nymph to have taken on papilio?

Anyway, they are half papilio so what ever they end up being they should be interesting. I also have only a few of my Benfica x papilio..I made the mistake of planting them in the ground and something ate most of them..I won't do that again with any pap seedlings. A whiskey barrel would be safer as I didn't loose any bulbs that were planted in them. I'll have to go searching for the Benfica seedlings, I haven't seen them in a while..

Also, I made a cross of Estrella x Fairy Tale and Estrella x a large beautifully shaped white from a nursery..(I stole the pollen) and I lost all but one of the Estrella x Fairy Tale (they too were planted in the ground) but the remaining one looks good. I have a handful of the Estrella x white...

....I just found a 5th pot of my above pap cross with 4 more large grape sized bulbs so, there are a total of 21...

I can't find my Benfica x papilio though...

I am curious to see the flowers of your papilio cross, Donna!

I have 3 papilio seed pod in the 5th week now, hope that i'll have some viable seeds in the next few weeks. Your succesful with papilio cross encourages me so much!

Hi Donna! Your seedling is beautiful !!!

Best wishes,

Elena.

Thanks Elena, but I like yours better!! You got a more cybister shaped flower and 4 flowers, I only got the two. Donna☺☺

Children Papillio always beautiful)) but naughty! My this it's year not bloom.

Best wishes,

Elena.

I love this Hippeastrum , this is one of the first hybrids I discovered on this forum , unforgettable !

Hi Donna,

Gorgeous color!!! I'm sure the picture doesn't do it justice and it's stunning in real life. Congratulations :-)))

Fred

Very beautiful Donna! Thanks so much for sharing! That inspire me so much!

This is one of those hybrids that makes me want to go out and dab everything with papilio pollen!! - J