Hi Angela,

I think you found the answer! I just googled voodoo (naughty lady) and most of the pictures match yours. I'm also glad to learn the ID since all 10 of the seeds you sent me are merrily growing along. I'm hoping they will be true, but one never knows, but whatever they are, I'm sure they will be beautiful.

You have such a beautiful home and garden! Do you live on one of those waterways in Fla where alligators occasionally walk up on your lawn??

Donna

Donna, so glad your seedlings are growing along well! Interesting that you mention naughty lady - is it definitely another name for Voodoo? Or are they different? I have another pass along that up until now I had been calling naughty lady, but it is very different. It has evergreen, very neat clumping foliage, whereas the voodoo foliage dies away reliably on its own each year and is narrower. And this other one does not have a red throat, and is a much more brilliant shade of orange/red than the voodoo, and blooms 2-3 weeks earlier. So now I don't know its name, but it sets seed well and I'm growing many of them. It is especially nice as a border plant because the foliage stays neat, and doesn't die away and leave empty spots. Here's the now mystery plant I thought was naughty lady (same one that in the other thread is reflecting its curling petals in the water):

{{gwi:392693}}

It is so amazing how many varieties there are! I selfed this mystery one, and also crossed it with my unknown red star, to try to increase the number of blooms per stalk it has and flower size, but keep the neat foliage characteristics. Can't tell yet if that cross is going to take...

Lol - haven't seen any alligators on my lawn yet, but not out of the question. The pond behind my house is a man made retention pond for storm water. But it is connected to a natural lake across the street which most certainly does have alligators.

Angela,

When I googled Voodoo many hits came up with both names. I don't know for sure at all as I was just going by what I had seen on the Internet so, unless someone knows for sure that they are supposed to be the same flower I'll just call mine Voodoo for now. ;-) And, of course the flower you are calling Naughty Lady is different from your Voodoo.

Maybe someone will read this who knows the answer!

Donna

I agree Donna. I am going to start calling the red throated one Voodoo. And I will go back to calling the other one NOID=) Regardless of what it is called it is a gorgeous bright color, and its early bloom helps extend the hippi bloom season.

About the Voodoo/Naughty Lady "issue": I will try to keep it short. (I never can, tho')

The Hippi commonly known (incorrectly) as "Voodoo", is really 'Naughty Lady'. But the two names have become so hopelessly mashed up, that I believe there is no correcting the error at this point.

There *was* (or is, actually) a similar-looking bulb named 'Voodoo' which was a 1960 Ludwig introduction and probably began being sold in the US in '61 or '62. It came, had it's turn in the marketplace and eventually went off the US market.

'Naughty Lady', which was a much earlier introduction, was originally sold in the US plant trade and over the years, was passed around all over the SE US and elsewhere. Hundreds were grown in the ground and shared and shared, usually without a name at all.

And by that, I mean *mostly* shared without a name attached. Gardeners weren't much into what a plant's name was (and in fact, on the whole, most *casual gardeners* still aren't that keen on it. As we gardeners get older, the memory fades, tags get lost and many even stop caring so much about the name thing.)

Anyhow, when 'Voodoo' appeared, all those people with 'Naughty Lady' who wondered what their bulb was called, naturally misidentified their bulbs as "Voodoo", there being a close resemblance between the two. To the casual observer, anyway.

[BTW-- Ludwig's 'Voodoo' doesn't have the dark markings in the throat that 'NL' does. That's a sure way to tell them apart, that is *if* you can ascertain that you actually have a true Ludwig 'Voodoo'.]

You can see the "true Ludwig Voodoo" in Read's book in Figure 4-11. That is a Ludwig stock photo. It's also the 3rd pic down the right-hand side of the dust jacket.

Now here's where it all goes to hell: I wrote to a Lugwig contact in 2008, about the Voodoo/Naughty Lady conundrum and found out from him that Ludwig sold all their stock of Voodoo (as well as 'White Bianca') to another grower in the mid-1980s. Here's a quote:

"this company [the one who bought Voodoo] started to grow these 2 stocks in large quantities and also changed the names of them to Naughty Lady and White Goddess. this has been done in cooperation with the KAVB and they are now on the marketed under these names." (I corrected some spelling.)

Yes. The KAVB can OK the sale of named bulbs under other names whenever they see fit.

That means that a whole new bunch of people will have "officially sanctioned" Naughty Ladies that are in truth, the original Ludwig Voodoo!!!!! Hell-hell-hella-hell.

Knowing this, I bought a bulb a year or two ago under the name 'Naughty Lady' hoping that what I got would be Ludwig's original 'Voodoo'. Alas, what I got turned out to be 'Lilly Star'. :-(((

As far as I know, the KAVB cannot claim ownership of the true 'Naughty Lady' (the one "everyone" stateside calls "Voodoo") and they do not propagate it for sale. I believe that 'NL' came from the early bulb trade in the US, possibly from one of the many Florida growers of times gone by.

Yes, the true 'Naughty Lady' shows obvious striatum heritage. (Pronounced striations, deep red color on filament ends and the more triangular shape of the flower, foremost.)The true Voodoo not so much. I won't swear to it, but it seems to me that "Ludwig's Voodoo" is a true red while 'Naughty Lady' is an orangey-red.

There may be other differences, but without a true Ludwig Voodoo for comparison.........

BTW-- there seems to be more than one "strain" of 'Naughty Lady', the difference being the amount and intensity of the dark blotches at insertion. This difference could come out of NL rising from a seed-grown original stock rather than one single bulb. In the early days, seed strains were common in propagation. Bulb-splitting came into general use much later. Off-setting took too much time for the nursery trade. It was only after WW2 that the Dutch "took over" the bulb market and scaling was the method of propagation.

So, to the OP, the bulbs labeled "Voodoo" at the botanical garden are a shining example of the real 'Naughty Lady'.

If the Dutch ever send us "Naughty Lady" (which, again, is Ludwig's 'Voodoo') officially, the true names will actually be totally reversed and will no doubt become forever confused with few knowing the difference. It probably only matters to me, LOL.

Now, a question: is the current 'Bianca' the same as Ludwig's 'White Bianca'......

See, I told you I can't keep it brief.

R.

This post was edited by raydio on Thu, May 23, 13 at 22:36

Interesting. I have Vodoo from years ago.
It bloomed earlier this year...reliably. Wonder how it compares.
K

Hi, Angela,
In the photo at the top of the page ( from Leu gardens) for that variety does not look like Vivaldi,imho.
I have a hippeastrum acquired in the local market, "grandmother" as we say, and so it is similar in color to yours.
It would be good to highlight these in a separate topic, perhaps by joint efforts have been able to find out something?

Here's the link that includes a poor photo of my Voodoo.
K

Here is a link that might be useful: Stuff in my yard, including H. Voodoo

Hi, Kristy,
I was referring to the second photo flower coloring similar to H. vittatum.

Oleg,
I was just posting a photo of my Voodoo, as that was one of the questions, and I mentioned that I have one that blooms every year.

I agree with you that the white bloom with thin red stripes looks like an H. Vittatum or hybrid thereof.

K

Wow raydio! Thanks for that wonderfully detailed description. Seriously - I printed it out and added it to my "plant o pedia=) So I now believe my red throated blooms to be Naughty Lady.

Kristy's also has the red throat, so hers may really be Naughty Lady then too, right?

What about this one then? It is similar, but distinct from Naughty Lady in a couple ways. It does not have a red throat, it is a brighter red, petals recurve more, its foliage is wider and more evergreen, and it blooms 3 weeks earlier. Does the true Voodoo have any other defining characteristics? Is this one perhaps Voodoo? I acquired it as a pass along plant.

Here's a close up:
{{gwi:390156}}

And here's a one that is more representative of how dark orange/red it really is:
{{gwi:392694}}

oleg9grower - I'd be happy to have another thread discussing the one labeled here as Vivaldi. I'll start one, and you can chime in=) Love all the "grandmother" plants that you find in old gardens!

Oh, and btw, my Naughty lady with the red throat set seed prolifically, if anyone wants some, I'll send them out for postage.

Hello everyone, I am Nindy, have been reading this forum more than a year already but registered only today. I wonder if what you mean by "grandmother" plants are species or hybrids also but just left on the ground untended.

I have H puniceum as hedges for decades, have a lot of them already as self supporting plants. Even if I am just new here, i am interested to have some of your seeds. thank you so much.

"Grandmothers" - there may be species, but more often it is a hybrid of unknown origin, quality as the old and not so, the name of which is lost. They are a good reproduced, is relatively resistant to the disease, and therefore kept many flower lovers are often passed down from parent to child - and because
called "grandmothers" :)

Hi Angela,

Well, I finally got around to transplanting your Naughty Ladies AKA red-throated straitums to their permanent home. They look great and are quite good sized considering their sparse leaves which I also noted yours have. Most have several small bulblets also so I know these will clump up nicely and in a few years I'll have a pot full of blazing blooms! I also like the variety in your pictures above.

Well, now you will probably be inundated with orders for your seeds ;-) Thanks again...Donna

{{gwi:392695}}

Donna, those are looking great! So glad you had success with them! Thanks for sharing the picture of your progress.

Great description of "grandmother" plants. I agree, they are those hard wearing plants that have stood the test of time. And often their identity has been lost to time, but they populate the gardens of grandmothers who pass on the love of gardening to their children.

Nindy, welcome! Do you know what the regulations for sending seeds to your country are? Any restrictions? Punecium in hedges sounds awesome! Do yours set seed? Maybe we could exchange? Send an email to me by clicking on "my page" and then "send me an email". Since you don't have email turned on, be sure to include your email address in your message so I can reply back. We'll see if we can set up a trade.