Hans-Werner, the flowers and habit of [ApBl x white] x [Don x Amb] are exquisite, and your documentation of its lineage is both instructive and inspiring. Thank you.

Do you know what, in Apple Blossom's lineage, causes the cherry ring in the throats of its offspring?

Amanda

Thank you Amanda!
The ring might be due to parentage of H.vittatum.
Now, "Appleblossom" has a subtle fragrance. AS subtle AS to not being perceived, by everybody.
I am yet to learn, HOW the flowers of H.vittatum are scented. If it is the same fragrance, then I would not mind to assume that H.vittatum is an ancestor of "Appleblossom".

I vividly regret, that the lineage of the famous TETs such as "Appleblossom", "Minerva", "Piquant", "Red Lion", "Royal Velvet", "Susan" and particularly, that of the "big" white! cultivars such as "Ludwig's Dazzler" and "Christmas Gift" are not accessible.

My next project is, to dust "Ambiance" with pollen from this hybrid (4 further Scapes of "Ambiance" will bloom soon). I have flowers in mind, with a broad white stripe throughout the whole flower segment, and better veining (longer veins) than performed by "Ambiance". That's the vision!

I like your seedlings very much.Good luck with the further breeding.
Del

BRAVO, sir Hans...BRAVO! I think you have created some flowers that I envy! The 2nd to last is especially stunning photography and subject.

I wish I could detect the fragrances in amaryllis but they are way too subtle even tho I have a sensitive nose.

I like your seedlings very much.Good luck with the further breeding.
Del

Those blooms are all stunning, Sir Hans. Thanks for sharing them with us.

Last year, I attempted to cross Appleblossom x Vittatum (back for forth) and I got viable seed pods on both of the plants. I sowed the seeds, too, and now have got very healthy seedlings growing.

This year, I tried crossing that "red & white" bloom which you explained as an "heirloom" plant with Apple blossom but it didn't take :-(. However, it took the other way round, ie the "heirloom" plant is now carrying some seed pods!

In my climate, I can smell Apple blossom easily, ie its fragrance is not that mild at all.

Xuan

Sir Hans,

Your images are breathtaking! I particularly love the close-up pf the jagged red star in the throat in the third photograph..as well as the picture of the luscious buds. I know I enjoy the opening of the buds as much as the final flowers. And your end results are just gorgeous..

Xuan, I'm glad to hear that you were able to get viable seeds from your Apple Blossom that have grown on well. Last year I did too, Apple Blossom x Lady Jane and they too are growing on well. I agree that you don't have to have a sensitive sniffer to enjoy the lovely scent of Apple Blossom. This year I am trying to set seeds again on my special Apple Blossom that gave me the seeds last year,it will be interesting to see if I can do it two years in a row on the same plant. My other bulb of AP has never set seeds for me....so some of these Apple Blossoms must be special, maybe they are a result of tissue culture (just a guess) that allows them to grow seedpods when the general consensus is that Apple Blossom is seedpod sterile most of the time...:-)

Another difference I've noticed between my 2 bulbs of AP is that one sets bulblets like crazy ( the sterile one) and the fertile one has never set any...

Donna

Lovely pictures, I like the second of1, the most.

Dear Hans-Werner,
These are all remarkable!!
Minerva is showing her presence...I see bits of newer hybrids (I can see where they came from)...and see that Appleblossom may have had a role in Candy Floss, Summertime, etc.
The Bold Green throat and Large red eye in the 3rd photo is interesting!! The outside of the blooms are nearly as lovely as the insides!
I'll be in touch with you off list!
:-)
Kristi

Hut ab Hans Werner!
I am always impressed about Your exactness and patience!
Verry fine breeding!
Another reason, why the dutch will kidnapp You soon! :-)
Best regards

LOL thanks for the warning!
Due to my further, very sophisticated and very secret breeding projects, I moved (me, and my 4-corner-treasures) into the subterrestrian concrete bunker.
Don't tell ANY!one, plz, pschschscht! - but at this hidden location, I just pollinated all them 8 flowers - with H.papilio!

{{gwi:392790}}

{{gwi:392791}}

WOW! With eight seedpods you might have a lottery and the winner gets a few of your extra seeds!! ;-)

Hans, they seem to shimmer in the light. Beautiful!

These are really really lovely! They sparkle with the light stripes in them...just love the effect!

Flowers started to wilt soon after pollination.
I used the last opportunity, to create a picture, for comparison of the shape with an older hybrid that I purchased as "Cantate" around 2000 and that grows like weed. 8 strong Scapes from 5 bulbs!
As far as I remember, I already referred to this hybrid elsewhere, saying "Once you got it, you will have it forever"

{{gwi:392792}}

Hans, you are such a phenomenal grower and your hybrids are absolutely fantastic! ;)

Thank you!
Everybody can create great hybrids.
It requires a little bit of strategy though:

1)You can build up a stock of valuable "material" through one "major coup" iow a single step procedure namely by crosspollinating each and every TET that you possess with H.papilio in either direction and/or crossbreeding a TET with a TET or TRIploid Papilio hybrid such as "Ambiance" - (DIP papilio HYBRIDS) do not have the same "power" of transferring the papilio shape into their progeny.

2)You are NOT as likely to create hybrids with spectacular/ uncommon complexion if you solely crosspollinate "common" TETs with each other. You will rather produce offspring that these look like inferior copies of such common hybrids that already exist.
Look at the very first picture:
White x Appleblossom (TET x TET) would yield a majority of flowers that looked like heirloom hybrids.
The pale flower with the full, broad segments, on the right side of the very first picture, was already a "rare" result, and btw. it is the same seedling that its flower is shown on the left side of the second picture. (Somewhat more colorful, due to forcing outdoors).

If you consider to (further) breed from your own seedlings then be aware to use NOT those with conspicuously narrow "butterfly segments". Progeny of TETS have a tendency towards a disproportion between the flower segments, that is, the 3 segments of the inner circle are likely to become too narrow.

DIP Papilio hybrids with broad butterfly segments look like this:
{{gwi:380801}}
("Exotic Star")
{{gwi:381721}}
("PapDonAmb2")

TET-Papilio hybrids look more like this:
{{gwi:392795}}
{{gwi:392795}}
PapDon2

{{gwi:392797}}

{{gwi:392798}}

Hans-Werner,

OMG!! That last photo is "off the charts" in beauty..I just LOVE the colors and the shape and the lines. It's a cheerful, happy flower that make me wish I could just pick it off the screen! What are you calling this beauty....?

Now, I'm not sure if I understood you correctly, you are pleased with this beauty aren't you..?

Donna

Thank you Donna!

It is the weaker clone from just TWO viable seeds and seedlings respectively, that I obtained after dusting H.papilio with. "Donau" (Danube). The picture shows the first scapes out of three small daughter bulbs. Thus, "twin-sets" only. From a bigger bulb this hybrid will produce the regular "4-corner" umbel, though.

If you obtain but abnormally few VIABLE seeds out of a particular crosspollination, then consider these as "precious". A general incompatibilty that it leads to the general abortion might indicate uncommon events that these make survive SOME embryos and this might lead to "uncommon appearance"
In the case of PapDon1 and 2, it was a regeneration of full TETraploidy from crossbreeding DIP x TET that normally should have produced TRIploids.

PapDon1:
You certainly agree, that this hybrid does not look at all like an "ordinary" TET hybrid
{{gwi:392799}}

Hans,

Beautiful! PapDon1 & 2 are both very unique characters! It has just enough personality of H. papilio!

Do you have any crosses of your own that you think should be on their maiden bloom this season? I can't wait to see what you have in store ;)

I just revisited your thread on LP where you have all your enchanting pictures of your crosses posted...I am always inspired when I visit that thread..and now this one...

Hans-Werner, congratulations on your extremely successful creations of new remarkable specimens! I am now encouraged to add H.papilio to my pollination attempts as well. You mention above that Ambiance is a Triploid - did I understand that correctly? I have done my own attempts at Ambiance crosses this season and have only been successful with Athena pollen so far (though I have yet to see if the seeds are viable).

Alana

I presume that "Ambiance" is a TRIploid. The same applies for [the true version of] "Melusine"
My only records (in 2008 and 2009) of "Ambiance" EVER producing seeds was with "PapDon1" (30-40 seeds per pod) .
My only trecord of "Melusine" EVER producing seeds was with "PapDon2".

Both "PapDon"s are self fertile and crossbreed with other TETs in either direction. Thus I think that I can rightfully consider them "TET". The only inexplicable failure occurred with "PapDon1" x "Appleblossom".

Hans-Werner,

Please keep us apprised as to the progress of your treasure (from under the ladder) with the 8 flowers x h. papilio that you moved to your secret subterranean concrete bunker...I hope they are doing well!! :-)

Donna

It is rather unlikely, that "UnderTheLadder" will produce seed pods with pollen from H.papilio.
However! I pollinated two flowers of "PapDon2" with "UnderTheLadder", two further flowers with "Red Pearl" and I selfpollinated the remaining two flowers. Come-what-may, even if "UnderTheLaddder" might entirely refuse to become mother, I SHALL have TET seeds with "Papilio inside" in abundance: "PapDon" are reliable seed producers!

Hans-Werner,

I want to thank you for sharing your photos, the pictures of your hybrids are one big reason I've gotten inspired to try hybridization. Specifically your Pink Floyd hybrids with Giraffe and Papilio.

AJ

Thank you all, for your great feedback.
NOW! As "suggested", my precious "UnderTheLadder" WOULD actually refuse, to produce seed pods upon pollination with H.papilio. The same applies for "Red Pearl" that I pollinated with H.papilio.

But, as to "PapDon2": Speak me, of reliabilty!
Two seed pods � time: With "Red Pearl", with itself, and yes, with "UnderTheLadder" YEAH!

{{gwi:392006}}

In a spell of genius or insanity I don't know YET - I even pollinated 8 flowers of Ambiance with "UnderTheLadder" but the fate is yet to decide IF or IFNOT.
I have striped flowers with a broad white midrib in mind!

Hans,

I am trying to follow along but I am confused by:

Look at the very first picture:
White x Appleblossom (TET x TET) would yield a majority of flowers that looked like heirloom hybrids.
The pale flower with the full, broad segments, on the right side of the very first picture, was already a "rare" result

Which photo is "the first picture"?

...it is the same seedling that its flower is shown on the left side of the second picture. (Somewhat more colorful, due to forcing outdoors).

Which photo is "the second picture"?

Do you mean starting at the top of this entire thread? Or specifically your post of Sat, Mar 12, 11 at 17:19? Neither of those sets of photos seem to fit your descriptions. I can't find the two flowers/photos to which you refer. I would really like to play along - really, I would!

Thanks!
Carol

Yes, at the very top.
The first two images show some specimens of the offspring out of crossbreeding "Appbleblossom" x "White".
The pale flower of the flowers in the bowl, on the right side, is from the same bulb that produced the rose flower in the second picture, on the left side, and the striped flower is the specimen that would produce "UnderTheLadder" after pollination with ["Donau" x "Ambiance"] shown in the following picture.

Hans,

I am especially interested in the third picture from the BOTTOM :) I love the H. papilio shape with the candy coloring, do you have any more pictures of this one? Do you have any other pictures I may see? They're beautiful!

This is PapDon2 Yes - I have images - tons of these even.
Fortunately, my Bilder-Hoster, photobucket.com allows for a display of my entire album on one page. THUS, I can extract all relevant pictures EASILY.
I shall compile them in a new thread for you.

"Ambiance" x "Under-the-Ladder"

The maiden bloom of this first seedling tries hard to look like "Piquant". The flowers are smaller though (16 cm in diameter) and they produce the same subtle fragrance that it is being revealed from "Appleblossom" which is a surprise since both parents are "odorless". 5 Individual flowers, on a strong scape, and they are showing slightly upwards:
{{gwi:392800}}