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haxuan

Could someone please educate me on Dips and Tets

haxuan
13 years ago

I've been reading posts on this forum many times about "Dips" and "Tets", but because of my being non-English speaking, I couldn't understand clearly :-(

Could some experts please help me in this with "amaryllis language for dummies". What is a Dip and what is a Tet and what do they do in my attempt to make cross polinations?

Thank you very much for your inputs.

Xuan

Comments (12)

  • houstonpat
    13 years ago

    Come on y'all. Add me to the student list.

  • socalgal_gw Zone USDA 10b Sunset 24
    13 years ago

    Dip is diploid, tet is tetraploid. It has to do with the number of sets of chromosomes (diploid has two sets, tetraploid has four sets). I can't help with how it affects crosses.
    Ruth

  • anna_in_quebec
    13 years ago

    This is from a Daylily site:

    Ploidity:
    There are basically two type of Daylilies. Tetraploids & Diploids. I have no intention to get into all the scientific Mumbo jumbo of their difference, Basically the difference is in the number of chromosomes each type possesses. Tetraploids contain 44 chromosomes and Diploids contain 22 chromosomes. Tetraploid Daylilies have been heralded by hybridizers as having significant advantages over Diploids. Tetraploids tend to exhibit larger blooms, more intense color, sturdier scapes and heavier substance in both the bloom and foliage. The leaf, stem and blooms exhibit greater vigor and vitality. It took 35 years of struggle in the face of skepticism for the promised potential superiority of the tetraploid to emerge from it predecessor, The Diploid. Many of the Hybridizers who made today's hybrids possible did not live to see there vision vindicated.

    The greater number of chromosomes contained in Tetraploids greatly increases the possibilities of of future crosses today. Today there is a chemical process which one can actually convert Diploids into Tetraploids. Any former Diploids Cultivar names listed in our Daylily Database is preceded by the word "Tetra" i.e. "Tetra Becky Lynn" etc. Any siblings produced by these converted Cultivars will be Tetraploids. Tetraploids and Diploids are not normally compatible in terms of cross pollinating. I have crossed Tetraploids and Diploids successfully but is an exception to the rule and is rare.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Ploidity

  • dondeldux z6b South Shore Massachusetts
    13 years ago

    Xuan, (Swan)

    The bottom line is..pollenate anything and everything your heart desires. Someone we all know gave me that advice last year and it it good advice!! Many times, and I can attest to this, you will get a pod full of seeds even though the ploidies didn't match and you may get lucky and out of 50 or so seeds you may only get a handful that look good. And, out of that handful, you may get some that do germinate and go on to grow as normal seedlings. Happens quite frequently..especially when using h.papilio which is a diploid. You can still get a few unexpected surprises.. so no matter what anyone says, give everything a try..what have you got to loose?

    And, if you can live without knowing the exact parentage..you can make a "cocktail" using several pollens of different flowers. I did this last year on my last of the season h. papilio flower and I got about 15 really good seedling out of it and they are all growing on just fine. I may or may not be able to tell (when they bloom) who the daddy is but in some cases, it doesn't matter ( to me anyway)

    If you haven't read the new thread "My Papilio is NOT virused"..read it..both this year and last year I had some strange successes with using h.papilio..

    Good luck, you're well on your way to amassing a wonderful collection!!

    Donna

  • cindeea
    13 years ago

    It is still clear as mud to me!! Right now it is my Exotic Star in bloom...I have yet to find a correct pollinator or recipient. I do not know WHO is a Dip, Tet or Trip......Xuan, it is not a language barrier, it's just very confusing in any language! lol

  • haxuan
    Original Author
    13 years ago

    Okiedokie... I am now very "happy" that I can just be a dummy and cross anything I like. Thanks so much for that Donna and Cindee.

    I re-read that post by Elizabeth a few years back(addressed to you, Cindee) and what I have tried to remember, so far, is: put a big bloom on another big bloom and a smaller one on another smaller one. Very simple, right?

    But now, my venture can even go further with what Donna has said. Very pleased that I asked the questions in my thread.

    Many thanks again, friends. It's so interesting to cross-pollinate, and wait three years for the blooms to boom as they do to me now from the crosses made by Elizabeth and Cindee!

    By the way, Cindee, I've found my Exotic Star didn't have good pollen... it seemed the "antlers" (?) were rather dry! :-(

    Why so, do you know, my friend? Is there anything I can do to improve the quality since there's another scape on the bulb about to bloom.

    Xuan

  • brigarif Khan
    13 years ago

    Listen to Donna

  • joshy46013
    13 years ago

    Xuan,

    Donna is correct, pollinate EVERYTHING with whatever you feel, if it takes it takes, if not, it doesn't!

    The problem with ploidy is that without the correct DNA analysis we'll never know ;)

    Some species like H. striatum are very small yet most are tetraploid, some pentaploid!

    I think the best idea would be to make a log of your own to use, that way you know what took and what didn't! You can use that for future reference.

    Sometimes crosses CAN take but they don't because of environmental conditions so if your heart is set on a cross, TRY, TRY AGAIN! :)

    Josh

  • radarcontactlost
    13 years ago

    If only records were kept like the AHS does for daylilys.

  • haxuan
    Original Author
    13 years ago

    Thanks, everyone, for having enligntened me on this interesting subject.

    Xuan

  • elizabeth_jb
    13 years ago

    Xuan,

    First of all, thank you for showing pictures of the crosses that I gave you. I have been even more thrilled to see them growing and blooming for you than I would have been if I grew them myself.

    As to ploidy, do try different crosses, but take the time to jot down what works and does not work. Some of the small ones fool you and are Tets.

    I like knowing which are most likely diploid because that makes my success rate higher. Josh is correct in that you don't know for sure without DNA, but if you are doing a lot of crosses, you can pretty much determine for your own purposes which are diploid and unless you want to create a miracle like Hans-Werner, you can avoid crosses that are mixed.

    Just have FUN!!!!

    Ann

  • haxuan
    Original Author
    13 years ago

    Ann... I'm having more and more blooms from your crosses each day these day.

    Thank you so much.

    Xuan

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