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what's the difference between rare and gardening H. papilio?

TigerFox
11 years ago

Dear all

I would like to ask a question is

how to distinguish between the rare species native from Brazil and gardening H. papilio?

Thanks in advanced!

Tiger

Comments (17)

  • TigerFox
    Original Author
    11 years ago


    I hope anyone can explain clearly from the flowers the size of fat or thin, stem height, color depth, leaf color differences, flowering bulbs size comparison between rare and gardening H. papilio.
    3ks so much!
    Tiger

  • npublici
    11 years ago

    A seed resulting from a pollination of one papilio species to another papilio species is a clone of the species papilio,unlike any other clone of papilio.Even though the seed is the true species papilio,it is unique and different enough to pollinate a papilio which will not self pollinate.There are variations in every species,including man.Some of these differences are expressed strongly enough to be named.Papilio is no longer rare,but to say it is is a marketing ploy. People desire the rare.There are people selling hybrids which have papilio in their parentage,which they are claiming as a variety of papilio. Papilio improved and papilio improved miniature are two of them. Some say papilio improved is a cross between papilio and the species aulicum.Often species clones are named after the people who collected from the wild.There is much more to say,but this is long enough.
    Del

  • blancawing
    11 years ago

    ...and you said it very well, Del.

    Always,

    Blanca

  • amaryllisstudygroup
    11 years ago

    If you get a Papilio or.Papileo or Improved Papilio bulb that came through the Holland bulb markets it is a clone of the same BULB which is a.selection of papilio from the same grower in Holland or even the ones grown in Brazil and sold through The Holland flower markets. I think there are only. 2 species dealers selling. AAA different selection of. papilop. All the pnesin lists and cataloguesof bulb resellers are still that one selection with a different ad copywriter. This could change with bulbs from Australia Thailand etc. Bill

  • amaryllisstudygroup
    11 years ago

    If you get a Papilio or.Papileo or Improved Papilio bulb that came through the Holland bulb markets it is a clone of the same BULB which is a.selection of papilio from the same grower in Holland or even the ones grown in Brazil and sold through The Holland flower markets. I think there are only. 2 species dealers selling. AAA different selection of. papilop. All the pnesin lists and cataloguesof bulb resellers are still that one selection with a different ad copywriter. This could change with bulbs from Australia Thailand etc. Bill

  • hippiris
    11 years ago

    Del you mention in your reply to Tiger, that Papilio will not self pollinate. Can you clarify self pollnation for me please. Is it using the same one flower to pollinate itself, or using another flower off of the same individual flowerspike or just outright using a pailio to another papilio?

    Cheers, K

  • TigerFox
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    Thanks for you guys' enthusiastic reply!!!
    Some information said the rare papilio is diploid, the Dutch gardening papilio is tetraploid��
    the rare papilio's flower is more slender than the Dutch gardening papilio,
    the rare papilio's flowering bulbs size is a little bit small than the Dutch gardening papilio,
    the rare papilio can pollinate itself,but the gardening papilio is difficult to pollinate itself or self-sterility,
    Are the above statements correct or not?
    From practical experience to talk about your views,thanks a lot!
    Cheers,
    Tiger

  • amaryllisstudygroup
    11 years ago

    Please ignore that info about ploidy. Not that it is not true. But it is not accurate. If you have a papilio, pqqollenate it with its own pollen. I have aquired them from 3 different Holland importers and 2 specialty importers and of coeurse seed from Mauro. When I did do some self and cross pollenating for technique developement with Papilio,they the same flower and other.flowers same plant and separate plants readily. What I did note was that the day the pollen was accepted the flower would shrivel and pod growth would start. If you don't get pollenation get some pollen from another plant. Someone here perhaps. It should.not be a big deal. Bill

  • npublici
    11 years ago

    No species papilio in commerce is known to be other than diploid.Possibly breeders have, for easier crossing,produced a tetraploid by chemical induction,but I don't believe it is marketed. Self pollination means pollen taken from any flower on a plant and placed on the stigma of any flower of the same plant.Others have told me that they successfully selfed papilio. I have not had it happen for me yet.
    Del

  • joshy46013
    11 years ago

    H. papilio is a diploid species from Brazil, it is very endangered due to habitat destruction.

    Some bulbs are self fertile (produces seed with it's own pollen), some are self sterile (you need a separate clone), it depends on the specific clones of this species. Each clone has usually miniscule differences. I have a clone that has a white background as opposed to a green one, I have one that opens quite flat and one that hardly opens at all.

    Most papilio on the market are true species, some are sold as a clone with a "higher" bud count, this is usually untrue OR it is indeed a hybrid.

    The only thing I would think of that could make H. papilio "rare" is having collection data from a wild location.

  • TigerFox
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    dEAR All :
    Thanks for Bill,Del and Josh
    I see, Thank you for your very detailed description of this species of H. papilio.
    Makes me have a deeper knowledge and understanding of this species of H. papilio.
    Cheers,
    Have good time and happy gardening
    Tiger

  • hippiris
    11 years ago

    Thanks for the explanation on self pollination npublici, I am one that has successfully self pollinated a Papilio, just the one spike for me a few years ago, so out with the tweezers I went,(hubby thinks I'm mad)sure enough a massive seed pod holding 100+ seeds appeared.
    Cheers,K

  • TigerFox
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    Dear Kerrie

    Wow, you're the man!
    May I ask you how to get a massive seed pod holding 100+ seeds appeared??????????

    Bye for now,
    Cheers and happy gardening
    Tiger

  • hippiris
    11 years ago

    Hey Tiger,

    I'm actually a woman, and it's not the first seed pod that has produced a massive number. Last year a random hybrid was blooming, I self pollenated it...It took and formed a pod, then much to my horror my husband was gardening and came in the front door with the stalk in his hand waving it about ."is this anything important??" OMG!, I snatched it from him and expected it to be ruined as it hadnt seemed long enough to be any good. He ended up drying it out in the shed when one day he hit his head on it as he walked past, he was showered in seeds. Out of 90 seeds all but 2 sprouted. Just seem to have good luck with getting good numbers I spose.

    K

  • TigerFox
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    Dear Kerrie
    Sorry for your misunderstood the meaning of what I wrote "you're the man!" I means you are great.
    Thanks for your patience and detailed response!
    Cheers
    Tiger

  • kaboehm (zone 9a, TX USA)
    11 years ago

    My Rosado x Papilio had ~100 seeds as well. So far I have floated and sprouted about 48/50, so the sprout rate is 96%. Since I now have many many Papilio bulbs of bloom size (THANK YOU H. Pat) I hope to have lots of fun crossing with Pap pollen this fall!
    Kristi

  • hippiris
    11 years ago

    I currently have 8 papilio flower spikes up..So with my good luck getting many seeds from each pod, I am expecting a huge population explosion very soon.lol. Will be saving some pollen, well trying to, to have the chance to pollinate anything that will flower later in the season, fingers crossed something does.

    Cheers, K

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