ps. forgot to add, the ph of the little bowl water Betta came in was a very low 6.0 as it turns out all the water at the store (I live nearby and filtered tap ranges from 6.5 higher during summer, so now I age filtered water with high pump with chemical remover pads and lots of carbon,and correct ph) The betta was adjusted by very slow drip method over two days to 6.5 then again to 6.8 ish... The temp in bowls was also extremely low, sorry state for this wonderful fish as to how they are treated in stores and by some who purchase them.

Sherry - wow! What a novel! LOL

Okay - in my experience, I've kept bettas in community tanks without any problems. It does depend on the personality of a betta, but I've never had any super aggressive bettas. I've even kept two male bettas in one community tank. They established their own territory within the 75 gallon tank and co-existed peacefully. In this tank there are angels, gouramis, rams, tetras, loaches and cory cats.

Ick is visible as tiny spots... like a sprinkling of salt. Is this what you are seeing? Or are you seeing a white spot that is larger than that?

Try not to do too much with various treatments or combining them. That can put more stress on the fish than the disease.

Sorry - I don't have a clue about your sand cleaning question. I would think you will have to clean as often/much as you would gravel?

You can use a magnifying glass to get a better peek at the "white spot". What kind of tetra? not that it matters to the betta, but I have kept small tetras with bettas no problems, however it may want to taste it. Any fish can be aggressive toward another fish for any reason. Betta's are a little closer to 50/50 then most community fish. Keep an eye on it, if there's a problem isolate one of them. "The water the betta came in was very low 6.0" Was the betta kept in a cup? Even if not, the water in the bags usually gets acidic even after only 15-20 min. I guess its lack of Oxygen and possible ammonia build from fish poop. I always notice a little poop in the bag when I get home, guess its part of the stress??? Stir up sections of the sand when doing PWC's. You can't vacuum sand like gravel (plunging in and shake, while lifting tube) but skim the surface to remove poop and debris. I'll give you a link to an article on sand substrates and then another about using under water jets to avoid the surface "vacuuming". Even if you dont do "jets" a few low flow mini-pumps can help move crud toward your filter intake and help keep things tidy.

heres the link for jets. I just noticed I forgot the link for sand substrate. OOOOOps

Here is a link that might be useful: Jets

Here Tis'

Here is a link that might be useful: Sand

Woesime, thanks, was wondering if the tetra would go after the Betta, lol... thanks for sand info, was thinking myself to put little pump to swirl stuff along so intake can get to it... will try all above thanks much again.. I did have magnifying glasses on... just like a dot about the size of the periods here. but white.... will watch, maybe overly concerned... the store is only two blocks or so away but none the less they are kept in horrific conditions, small teeny bowl in not so warm conditions... well he will probably be ok seems fine ... thanks Sherry

Skygee (re novel, lol I think I have no one to 'share' with and worked hard on this tank...oops)

Thanks to you as well, no not typical ick, just one dot about size of period as I mentioned or looking again slightly bigger definately not a really small spot...(kind of reminds me when a flat panel computer screen blows a pixle - hard to see but once you notice it can't seem to forget it's there) so time will tell..

Thanks for reminder about over medicating which I do know, but forgot to say, tea tree was first prior to meds and salt and very dilute anyway but did change h2o today and only salt and ick med's since mouth looks fine.. In my experience salt does ok with most medications save for cories so on... I have a feeling it's nothing but just want to be sure, most of the tanks at petland or petco forget which, tend to have lots of ick...

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I myself only use natural therapies (degrees in science and nutrition) for me and my cats and was wondering about same for fish along lines of tea tree oil and one night somehow came across web site that used herbs so on.. will try to find as I know I must have saved it. Best and thanks much Sherry

Thanks so much for links, exactly what I needed... same thought but this link on jets is much more sophisticated then what I was thinking of (glad I don't have to reinvent the wheel) Fantastic and again thanks... (I just love the internet and sharing resources) Sherry

My betta also had ICH and Velvet (that OO parasite) I treated ICH with nothing but salt and raising the temperature. If you raise the salinity gradually to what equals 1 tsp. per gallon (that may not be accurate measurement, let me know if you need it) and the heat, then reduce the salinity and heat gradually over a 15 day period it works. It is less costly and you are not using chemicals that are known to cause cancer. To add the left over salt is tasty with a shot of tequilla and lime.

I always try frequent water changes first, then salt (depending of course on the fish in the tank as some are more salt sensitive than others), and try only to use meds when I absolutely have to. Fungus med that I've found works for me is Aquarium Pharmaceutical's Fungus cure.

The link below is to one of the better sites out there. It's specifically to the Disease page - with photos! I remember when she was collecting photos from people to show diseases.

Here is a link that might be useful: Pandora's page

W and S:

Water (aged and filtered for several days) changed each day during treatment or every second day (less then 5 days so far into treatment) I have an old Dr. Innes book (way back in 40's) which uses salt and as a child that's all I ever used, even for one gourami (of two) that leap out of the tank and when I came back from school, they were dried on one side like leaves. did experiment and treated one with salt other without, fungus and death on one other recovered and lived. (I did try to catch up with fungus one but to far gone as I am not intential cruel but did want to see how well salt works) (I have an old water cure book from Zen monastary, and salt water is great when you have stomach or food poisoning, too much drinking so on, drink and purge then when done swallow a little, stops everything instantly)

This research shows this and that is what worries me a bit - that the dot might be something else...

(The most common way of diagnosing ich is by close observation of the infected fishes. The presence of small, (.5 to 1.0 mm) white dots scattered about on the fishes' skin. This is not always proof that the fish is infected with ich as several other infections can have a similar appearance. Proof positive can be obtained by removing one of the spots and observing it under a microscope. Ich has a small micronucleus and a prominant crescent-shaped macronucleus.)

Well thanks once again for all of your marvelous help and time will tell (wish I had a microscope)... best Sherry