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botanical_bill

125g tank

botanical_bill
17 years ago

When I get my house in the near future I am planing on installing a 125g tank in the wall. What I want is a free flowing filter system, DIY, below the tank. I drew up my blue prints, and I think it will work fine except the size fo the filtration tank and the GPH. I am going to have an anti syphon out take the is dependent on the waters return. (A)Then Im going to have a 5-10g tank with 3-4 compartments, one with brick, gravel and sand. This will filter the water. (B)Then it is going to flow down through a 5g bucket with media balls for bacterial filtration. (C)Then its going to flow down one more to a 5-10g tank that is going to airate and heat. (D)Beside that will be the overflow tank, a 30g bin that will have a return pump. The 30g bin will be able to hold all the water incase of power outage.


My questions. Is 500gph going to be enough for this set up? In A, what would be a good size tank for this filtration process.

Thanks
-Bill

Comments (13)

  • garyfla_gw
    17 years ago

    Hi
    I'm guessing you're talking about fresh water?? If so, will it be planted and what type of fish?? If SW that's a whole different story lol
    First I'd suggest a larger tank if you're going to build it into the wall.125's are so narrow they're tough to landscape.At least 18 inches wide,24 even better. Make sure that you place it so that it's easy to get to.A back entrance is great. Not so high that you can't reach the bottom, without a stool is best.
    Second instead of an elaborate trickle filter,I'd go for a self contained water change system designed around the tank. Water changes are far more important than filtration.Make it as easy as possible. You could use a regular canister filter for particle filtration and as a bio filter. Easy to service and infinitely variable .
    The usual rule for FW is 3/5 times per hour and 10 to 20 for SW.
    So tell us what type of tank it will be and mnd I could be more specific. gary

  • birdwidow
    17 years ago

    Gary is right. Water changes are SO much more important than filration, that with a 10 - 15% water change daily,
    you could keep a perfectly healthy tank with no filtration at all.

    But the biggest filter in the world won't help, if the only fresh water the fish receive is from top offs.

    A tank filter can remove particulates and as Gary suggests, a canister filter will do that nicely, but an aquarium is still a closed system and the fish are still swimming in their own chemical wastes.

    An interesting article on water changes a few years back calculated the amount of fresh water the fish actually receive with weekly as opposed to daily changes and concluded that just 10% daily was better than 50% weekly: 50 vs. 70, with continual fresh. It made sense.

    Which leads to the thought of a pair of holding tanks below the aquarium; one for old water, the other for fresh, and an automatic, slow, continual change. Or, a very large holding tank filled with fresh and the old going directly to a drain, which would be even better.

    Running fresh directly from a faucet is the ultimate, if the water is suitable. Otherwise, you would need online cartridge filter to treat it.

  • botanical_bill
    Original Author
    17 years ago

    It is going to be a FW tank. Im planing on planting very heavy. I tend to like the plants about as equal as the fish. So with that, my theorie is that if I have enough plants, they will pull the nitrogen out of the water keeping it very clean and crisp. This theorie works very well for my 20g tank, wich I only have heavy airation and a hang on filter with tons of plants. My fish will be very simple tetras, nothing requiring specific water conditions.
    I realy dont like the daily water change system due to the fact is I can not use tap water, its too hard and the ph is just short of lye (joke). So I will have to invest in a reverse osmosis system, I have found some that do 50g a day for around $200. If I move up in tank size, cause I did notice the 125g is narrow, Ill probably go with a 180g. So I would have to run a 50g water change daily. With the waste water out of the reverse osmosis, thats 150g daily, 4500g monthly. I cant afford that.
    Would the set up I described work will for a heavy planted aquarium, I mean heavy?
    I like to build things, so that is why I would rather build the filter sysem over buying one.

  • garyfla_gw
    17 years ago

    Bill
    A heavily planted ,built in tank with tetras my idea of the most beautiful tank lol You don't necessarily need a RO system just a convenient way to age water. Another tank or even a garbage can will do. A plumbing run to get the water into the storeage tank and a way to get rid of waste water.All without having to carry the water.
    Think 20 percent of the display tank on a weekly basis
    So the container could be around thirty gallons placed anywhere convenient . In tanks that size weekly or even monthly 10 percent changes are enough. Of course you could always take advantage of your hardwater and go with a "rocky" African Cichlid display not many plants though lol
    Tank doesn't need to be larger just wider front to back.
    IMO 4-6 foot long is ideal while the width can't be too much lol. 24 inches gives a much more interesting presentation. Cubes are good for 4 sided viewing but in the walls rectangles are best unless you can afford those "fish eye" or cylindrical tanks
    Now that you've saved a fortune on filtration lol,think about lighting and substrate. The MOST important aspects of "planted" tanks.
    Last March I set up a 150 in the shadehouse with waterfall ,rain water collection system and using natural sunlight. So far it's been runaway my most successful tank.!! Almost no work,the plants grow like weeds fish sparkle in the sunlight and the Lace plants not only broke dormancy they flowered and set seed!!
    Keep us informed as to your progress. gary

  • birdwidow
    17 years ago

    Bill: A "Dutch" style Amazon tank? Ummmm. You can have some real fun with a 180 Dutch type, especially if you like tetras. 2 or 3 small tetra species of at least 30 fish each, and you would have flashing schools. Add at least 10 each of a few cory species, and they too will school, for a tank with happy little "communities".

    Easy, cheap "Amazon" water: Take a zippered cotton pillow protector, fill with garden peat, drop into a large plastic garbage can and fill with water. Let it sit for a few days, or until the peat has become totally saturated and the case has sunk.

    Remove case, squeeze out water, strain nice, natural black water through extra fine mesh and add just enough to the clear, treated tank water to achieve desired ph. Yes, it will give the tank water a slightly golden hue, but the colors on your fish will more than compensate.

    And Gary is again correct: get your substrate right before you add the first plant, let alone fish. The time and effort to set it up will make all the difference in the end.

    Ah, you lucky subtropicals. I have to do it all in either a heated greenhpouse or basement. If I tried to set any tank larger than 125 anywhere on the floor joists in this old house, it would end up in the basement anyway- the hard way.

  • james_ny
    17 years ago

    I have a 240 gal tank in my 1920's built house. Just make the floor joyces run perpendicular to the long part of the tank.

  • botanical_bill
    Original Author
    17 years ago

    Thanks for all the advice every one. Right now I have a 20g planted tank. Prior to planting the tank I had a crapy sand/gravel substrate. I kept that and put in plants. The plants did ok. I recently changed out the substrate with eko complete and holysmokes, the plants are rooting like crazy! So I have the green thumb part for the planted tank. I have only delt with small tanks with hang on filters. So then when we buy a house, with in the next 6 months, one of my top prioritys is the tank. Like I said, I like to build my own stuff, so even if its an almost an over kill, I would love to have a DIY filter system, as long as its cheaper or not too much more than the canister filter.
    Birdwidow, I love the idea of large schools.
    So my plan for now, is to us 4x4 posts every 3 feet for the support with some 2x6s tied in. All of the houses down here are concrate base, single stories, no basements, so I realy do not have to worrie about the base. My guess is to put the center of the height of the tank at eye level. That would make the bottom of the tank some where between 4-5 feet off the floor. I always hated to have to crouch down to look into a tank. As for the lighting, I think I posted something about how I modified my 2x18" bulb fixture to an electric ballast and added a fixture to it, now it holds 3x18" bulbs (my sisters thinks Im a real geek), I think Ill be safe on the lighting. Im going to shoot for 2-3 watts per gallon, possibly 8x40 watt bulbs or 4x92 watts, t8s, natural light. Ill set up the tank with the gravel/substrate, fill it up, get the lighting running and let it run for about a week before putting plants in. THen get the plants going for about a month before putting fish in.
    I think Im going to go with my plan, I guess my orginal question is how much water needs to be cycled per hour. I guess 3-5 time a hour is a safe bet.
    Again, thanks for all the feed back. When I get this all set up, Ill post a bunch of pictures of the process.
    Thanks.
    -Bill

  • garyfla_gw
    17 years ago

    Bill

    You might check out mongabay.com.Lots of advice on all things aquatic. Very good article on selecting tanks.Sizes materials costs . My advice would be to shop around especially for large tanks and used if you can find a good one. I got my 150 free because of a cracked glass but I fixed it for under 50 bucks.
    Another is the KRIB especially for planted FW.
    gary

  • birdwidow
    17 years ago

    JAMES: The only places on the first floor of our home where a very large tank could be sited, would be in conflict with the joists and location of the support posts in the basement, so I must be content to keep my big show tank in our lower level rec room, on vinyl over concrete.

    BILL: If you are that handy, have you thought about building your own tank? Check out Glasscages. You can buy the frames cheap, and the glass locally. As long as it's cut to the correct size, putting it all together is easy. http://glasscages.com/

    Or, with a built in, you might not need to use glass for any but the front. A lot of very large built-in tanks have been made with glass fronts and marine ply faced with thin, solid vinyl for the backs and bottom. As long as you calculate and allow for the pressures generated by the weight of the water, it's amazing what a reasonably competent carpenter can construct, with great results. And, don't overlook angle iron for reinforcement, especially if it's all hidden anyway.

    I'm glad to know I'm not the only one who doesn't look at a very large tank and see only a few huge fish, as opposed to a small, self contained habitat in which many small fish can exibit a more natural behavour.

  • botanical_bill
    Original Author
    17 years ago

    Birdwidow, I have thought about building my own tank. I thought that after you buy the glass, braces, glue and all the stuff, it would be about the same price as buying a tank. About this marine ply with vinal on it, how would I go about that. Is there any decent blueprints that you know of online? That sounds like an option. Ill have to see the house Im going to buy and make sure that the tank cannot be viewed from both sides from two rooms. That is an option Im going to play with.
    If I do buy a full glass tank, Im going to shop around for my tank. I may take a used one. My guess is to make it to a big city and look at there stores. Miami or Tampa are both 2 hours away from me, so I may try there.
    Again, thanks for the feed back. This is realy helpful.
    -Bill

  • garyfla_gw
    17 years ago

    Bill

    You have the right idea check on the cost of the materials first. The 24x72 x1/2 glass for my 150 was 175 dollars and you can get a new tank for 350. lol Went with a vinyl pegboard glued over the cracked glass for under 50.
    For building from scratch I'd go with structural acrylic
    eliminates all the long term problems with marine plywood.
    Again be sure to check on the cost of materials.Price has really soared along with oil lol.
    There are a bunch of sites on DIY.The KRIB ,reefcentral.com and many others. Overall used is probably the best bet, but check it out carefully. Often if you buy from hobbyists you can get a bunch of equipment thrown in.
    Another problem with DIY you need tools,and a large area to work in
    You should have went shopping right after Frances and Jeanne . There were crashed marine systems for a song lol
    Could of bought a 6 foot acrylic hex including a steel stand. for 200 bucks!! gary

  • birdwidow
    17 years ago

    Bill: Start surfing eBay. Set the search for the distance from your home to Miami or Tampa; both are estate sale gold mines.

    Gary may be right about the acrylic, but it is very expensive. The material I was describing is just thin sheets of solid vinyl, glued to 3/4" marine ply. The ply is sealed with an acrylic varnish and isn't exposed to water anymore than a wood stand under a tank.

    There are usually aquarium plans listed on eBay, sold as PDF docs. at fairly low prices; under $15.00, but as Gary suggests, check on the cost of materials first and with the Internet, it's become easy.

    However, glass is one material you don't want to pay to ship, so once you know the thickness you will need, just call local glass suppliers for their per sq/ft. price and cutting charge. Compared to cast acrylic, even thick glass is really not all that costly.

  • james_ny
    17 years ago

    Having the center of the tank a eye level will look very odd, and will be hard to clean without a ladder. I would go for a 150gal as its taller than the 125. I had to replace my 150 Perfecto after 17 years about 2 years ago, cost was @ $400 delievered. If a used tank leaks over your floor or carpet you'll regret not buying new.

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