Bobites (african fern), Aponogetons, Anubias, Java ferns, For a few. I have never had trouble with any plant near a filter return, as long as the roots are anchored down and the leaves aren't too delicate. Your flow is pretty strong, but it may be manageable. The only trouble I see is with the high flow is low CO2 levels. If you can some how diffuse the return via spraybar, tee it off a few times, etc. To lessen surface agitation it would benefit. As for fish are you considering tropicals (assuming this is for an outside pond) or coldwater. I guess any riverish would be ok, try to create a few "dead" spots with rockwork though. Maybe rainbows for a tropical? They are slow flow rivers though. Maybe anything that has a slender or similar body shape. Hey, Congo tetras if you can find them, I "think" they are in the faster parts of rivers.

Is this for an outdoor pond? Water cress would work well.

Hi
Guess I didn't explain myself very well lol For this question I'll just say that this is a standard 18x72x28
150 glass aquarium..Located in a shadehouse with a 1200 gph flow rate. I'm using a PVC pipe with 30 quarter inch holes 72 inches long just under the water surface. Still the current is so strong as to disturb the gravel. Don't think I'll be able to keep rooted plants ?? Would think floating plants will be shredded?? I might be able to protect some areas with rocks or driftwood as you suggested Could shorten the spray bar to the 18 inch side and maybe the far side would be calmer. ?? Submerged plants are not too important anyway as the main purpose is water for the orchid wall. Thought some attractive rocks would suffice for the aquarium but would like to have plants if possible.
This tank will be heated to a minimum of 60 so tropical fish would probably be best.?? The tank will be tied into a rainwater system so will be soft and somewhat acid.
The only thing that concerns me is the flow rate.
Congos would be good if they can take the flow??
How about some of the Danios or Barbs?? Was thinking Giant or Rosy??
Thanks for the suggestions gary

You'll be using the tank as an overflow or as a reservoir to pump water to spray over orchids?? Just realize you're in Florida - what a great project!

What type of orchids and how are you mounting? Or are these non-terrestrial type (oncidiums? Epidendrums? Cattleyas?)

If the flow is really strong, it's going to shred a lot of plants unless you think about cattails or brooms.

60 degrees? That's actually quite cool for tropicals.

Sorry - I'm having such a hard time visualizing exactly what you're planning! But what I do have in my head is pretty fantastic! Which I was in warm climes that I could do something similar. :-)

Anyway - think of fish that are used to strong currents - if danios, only giant danios. Maybe Australian Rainbows?

If this is

Garyfla,

while researching low level plants (light and or maintenance) I came across a site that mentioned the anubias that are rooted on rocks (near waterfalls in and out of - spray keeps them moist when emersed) I will try to find the site as I save them all (thousands, so will have to search) This one showed the plants in the original environment. So any of the types that root to wood, rocks... apparently thats why they are 'built' that way. What a project, kind of like the one I started, with hypertufa rock/water fall so on... (indoors)

Also, how about he types of catfish in family or others that need schools and fast water... (and often large tanks).

for cooler water, how about some type of native species, minnow carp family? (haven't done any research just memories from reading and old Dr. Innes book on native species that are suitable for 'capitivity'... I am sure you can find some cooler loving 'white water' (ok a bit of exaggeration) types. Photos when done please... Best Sehrry

hi
I know it's hard to visualize and I see it every day lol.
It is so complicated that it would take a book to explain the whole project. Boiled down it is an attempt to convert the shadehouse into a climate controlled, landscaped terrarium large enough that you can walk in it. An attempt to organize 30 years of plant collecting into a central area with ease of maintenence. Eventually it will be 25x25x10 feet high. I've divided the changes into sections
that will integrate into each other. I decidede on Rain forest as a theme as I'm crazy about epiphytes and most of my collection is these types and since I will have climate control I can move into much rarer types.
The start is the "Orchid wall" The waterfall will provide a boost of humidity,watering source and it's interesting to look at lol. I'm using expanding foam to make a rock face that will extend from just above the aquarium to the roof line of the house. This section will be around 9 feet long and 10 high. All the plants will be growing epi on this wall. I'm creating growing areas as I go up the wall. Naturally I had to get the waterfall going to be sure it worked. It is 3x6 feet. This is where the aquarium comes in. Had planned on using a hidden tub for the water but got the aquarium so instead of hiding it I put it in front. I chose a pump that is too large for the needs so must live with it. i hadn't planned on an aquarium
so did not give a lot of thought to decorating it. But at very least it will have rocks and hopefully some fish. Sure provides a great source of water for the falls lol
To answer your questions .All the orchids I have are epi.
except for 2 terrests. I'm using pots held by the foam. I'm using some new methods for attaching them. So far I've placed med light.Cats,Epicats ,Phals,reed and terete vandas.
4 kinds of fern and 5 epicactus .Anturiums and converted oxalis. I'm stuck here until they establish and I can move into the dry zone.
In the "stream " area I'm placing my aquatic bonsai alocasia and my beloved mosses lol. Anubias would be a good choice but already have no room there. The current would certainly limit submerged culture
So what is needed is submerged plants for the aquarium
Water Cress will tolerate a lot of current but how would I start it??
Also the 60 is just a min temp lol That will last about 10 minutes in Jan . the rest of the year we're talking eighties I'm sure lol. Thanks for the suggestion
gary

Garyfla, I finally found the site I had remembered. It is complex, maybe you have heard of it. Has all sorts of biotypes, nature of environment, types of set up, plants, fish, water flow so on.

You have to scout around as there are many many types, from all over the world. Amazing guy who set it up based on his research and travels. Best Sherry

http://www.mongabay.com/fish/biotope_thai_creek.htm

(3) Rocky rapids [pictures]
Use bright lighting and position filter outflows to create moderate to strong water current. Use a sand or fine gravel substrate and place several large river rocks around the tank. If plants are desired, use Vallisneria along edges of tank and bunches of smaller robust crypts in center. It is important that plants are tolerant of strong current or protected from the current by river rocks.

http://www.mongabay.com/thai_waters.htm

(Waterfall, Khao Sok - Cryptocoryne in waterfall pool picture to left)

http://www.mongabay.com/fish/biotope.htm#African%20River%20Rapids

Also read that Anubias does well in faster moving water (while looking for this site - would think it depends on type, ie longer tapered a's rather then bunchier types??? ie plant so goes with flow of current)

I went more in direction of Asian (he mentions many rainforest types, subdivides them into river areas, many to choose from) (they don't show as links here, but are)

http://www.mongabay.com/fish/data/ecosystem_index.htm

BIOTOPE AQUARIA

Below you will find links to lists of freshwater fish from ecosystems. These lists have been generated from Fishbase.org - an ambitious project to provide indexing and links for all known species as the baseline dataset for studies of global biodiversity. All content for these pages is copyright Fishbase.org.

Biotope aquaria:

African River Rapids
Lake Tanganyika
Lake Malawi
West or Central African River
Southern African Swamp
Southeast Asian River
Thai Creek
Southeast Asian Blackwater Pool
Southeast Asian Mangrove Estuary Indian/Burmese River
New Guinea River
Northern Australia Rainforest Creek
South American Whitewater River
South American Clearwater Stream
South American Blackwater Creek
South American Blackwater Stream
Central American Rocky Lake
Central American River

Then a long list of fish from different regions by biotype.

Partial Sample: (too long but from around the world)

South America : Amazon River
South America : Araguaia River
South America : Madeira
South America : Magdalena
South America : Maranon
South America : Orinoco
South America : Para-Tocantins
South America : Paraguay River
South America : Parana
South America : Rio Negro
South America : Sao Francisco
South America : Uruguay River
South America : Purus

I read somewhere where cork can be used to cover areas such as back of wall, or other objects, and then attach plants to that for stability.

http://www.sfbaaps.com/articles/barr_01.html

Valisneria was mentioned in link in previous post as a good plant near fast rapid movement of water. (in photos was lying down on its side flowing with current)

hello
thanks very much for the links. Will certainly check them out. I reversed the divergent pipe tothe short wall just below the waterline .Cut the current in half on the far side!! I put in 4 ,inch long swordtails and not only do they not seem to mind the current thay seem to be surfing lol..Have been putting pieces of ribbon on rocks in various places and the current seems almost perfect in at least half the tank. So i guess the problem is solved Thanks
gary

you're done with this project. I was at my local garden center yesterday, and they have a wall with orchids with falls as well! They have pots hanging off the wall (fake stone) though - because the display is for plants offered for sale, as well.

What will you be using for the wall? And have you considered maybe growing Vanilla?

I was an avid orchid growing over 20 years ago... still have some plants from way back then. But gave many away as I started to travel and do other things in my life. Just now started expanding on my orchid collection - but mainly terrestrials like Paphs and Phals. I also just love the true terrestrials like the Jewel orchid. I don't really have enough light in the winter for the higher light requiring orchids.

Good luck on this project. Really would love to see photos after you're done!

hello
The "stone" wall is attached to the house wall and is made of an expanding foam painted with acrylic . I'm also using cork bark and PVC pipe for "trees"
I quit growing vanilla because of several drawbacks. In the right conditions it will become weedy. The vine muxt get around ten feet long to flower.Flowers are small and insignificant ,for an orchid lol.
I grow several Jewel orchids as underplantings for the Bonsai.Mostly Ludisia and Macodes. They are terrests but I find they grow much better semi epi in sphag.
Pafhs and Phals are actually semi epi.For me they grow best in crushed lava rock. The ones I put on the wall I'm using fir chips for ease of replacement.
have you considered a terrarium for growing orchids.??
Solves the light and humidity probles for most people.
okay back to the aquarium lol
Since I seem to have solved the current problem and I have such a deep tank I think i might try some Lace plants
or Madagascar algae magnets as some people call them lol
I will be able to have 6 inches of substrate and still
have 22 inches of water.May revert to pots for the dreaded dormant period.Maybe some of the aquatic ferns as I can attach them to drift wood before placing in the tank.
I've been taking pix as the project has progressed.My first roll came back blank lol,Hope the project turns out better than the photos lol
Thanks again gary

With the fir bark - do you think it will change the ph of the water that falls back into the reservoir?? Might not be bad for water plants, but wondering about the fish?

I used to grow many of my orchids in osmunda - not sure if this is easy to find anymore?

I guess I always wished I could grow vanilla just for the beans! LOL I'm just too far north to grow most orchids well without some sort of supplemental lighting. That's why I do fine with phals and paphs right now. I love dendrobiums, but really don't have enough room (for the big reed type) or the light. At one point grew a LOT of miniatures. Love the species plants - but right now about all I have are hybrids (with the exceptions of the terrestrials)

Take more photos! Then we can all be envious.

Hi
Since the water tank(aquarium ) is right out in front I'll be able to remove anything tht falls in. Fir bark especially in small quantities wouldn't do much to the water. I'm more concerned with the top soil I'm using right above the falls.Want to grow Mendinilla and Anthuriums and they need a heavier media.Once they establish roots there will be no problem.Hoping there will be no heavy rains until then.lol
one thing I really want to grow is New Guimea shingle plant.Have tried before and failed .Difficult to establish.
This should create many micro climates for the true rainforest type epis.
In order for Vanilla to produsce beans it must be hand pollinated.. Requires a long time for the bean to ripen and then there's the problem of processing. Easy to see why Vanilla is expensive.
Thanks again for the sites.Almost anything I'd want to know lol
gary

Gary - not so much stuff falling into the water (which could then be removed) but the water as it passes over and through it?

Now one of my favorite orchid has always been epidendrum pseudepidendrum - something that apparently still is expensive for a tiny plant! LOL You really need light for this plant to bloom. I had this plant in the past - but it never bloomed for me. :(

Here is a link that might be useful: {{gwi:375671}}

Hi

Well, the water won't be passing through the orchid media. Most orchids require a drying period.They are planted to the sides of the waterfall or above it. I've arranged it so the fert runoff will be diverted to the ground. The great advantage to the waterfall is the boost in humidity along with a very handy source for water. Attached to the aquarium I should get a source of weak fertilizer. Plants that grow in the falls should get a hydroponic culture . The Phals had started to spike but transplanted anyway as I need to get them established before summer rains. of the three only one seems slowed down but looks like it will recover.
I particularly like green orchids have several green catts one that has a purple lip. The flowers are downright gaudy lol
gary

Gary I'm blaming you entirely. I found a resource for an epidendrum pseudepidendrum... and I think I'll be ordering it soon! At least 20 years later I can now afford expensive orchids that are sold in small pots, need years to mature before blooming, but all in all will give me great satisfaction in the end! Now I need to think about the best place for it since canes grown between 4-5 feet!! ack!

So with the orchids - not planning on fertilizing?

How are the fish doing? I've found swordtails do a bit better with salt in the water.

Hi
Not too sure about fertilizing. The aquarium water will provide some naturally. Have no idea if it will be enough.
Would certainly be easier to maintain with out
What I have planted is doing great so far in spite of the drought and cool weather. I think within a month I'll be able to start on the upper canopy which will help with the shade problem .Way too much sun.
The swordtails are doing fantastic.Don't seem to be bothered by the current at all I put a total of 5,4 adults and one new born. These came out of the shadehouse pool. As a guess I have around 2000 in two pools lol. Started with two pair in 85 so they are all related lol. They manage to stay ahead of the herons raccoons,egrets and turtles. Had one large die-off when the temp fell to 27 for an hour but enough survived to start all over again. Very tough fish lol. Have never used salt in any of my FW setups. Certainly wouldn't want salt anywhere near orchids lol.
I planted around 20 types of plants in the aquarium to find what works. have never kept an aquarium in sunlight before.As expected I'm getting some fixed algae and greenwater.Naturally it won't rain to fill my collection system and our tap water is terrible,lol. Was depending on large water changes in the initial cycle,Oh well the whole thing is an experiment anyway.
Good luck with your orchid Sounds like you'll be building that greenhouse soon lol.
Still have at least 6 Catts I want to put on the wall and the dends will go in the upper canopy. haven't bought any plants so far except for aquarium types. Got my eye on several types of epi's when I get some more shade. Want to try some of the radial orchids auch as Cishweinfia ,Harella
, Liparis and Angraecum. Should have some ideal micro climes soon.
gary

The angraecum leonis is one of my survivors of my old orchid collection. One that I couldn't give up! The flowers smell incredibly heavenly!! I had to look up Cishweinfia - beautiful!

In my pond in the spring I always get a first bloom of algae that turns everything mucky green. After a good 50% water change, it clears up beautifully. I'm one that is hesitant to put any type of chemical fix in my pond. It's an established pond and pretty nicely biologically balanced.

Did you put swords in your pond for insect control? Way too cold up north for other than carp in our ponds!

hello
Actually i put the swords in the pools as a "temporary" home when I had a tank leak. I was told they wouldn't survive outside lol Was also told they would die off from imbreeding.Can you imagine how many generations I must have by now ?? Only thing that's happened is other colors have shown up.Red Wag is still dominate though.
Can't keep goldfish outside due to herons..Swordtails seem to be able to evade them or maybe just out produce them??lol Also keep some tetras and danios.Unless exceotionally cold they will survive and once summer arrives reproduce.Some types much more than others.
Eventually I want to tie in the 5x10 lily pool into the aquarium. I want to grow some giant Clown loaches maybe even have them reproduce..I'm hoping to be able to keep it warm while providing some heat to the shadehouse.
I think it will work lol
gary