Glenda,

I am so sorry to hear that one of your orandas is sick and can't say for sure what caused it, but if they have been feeding on dry flakes floating on the top of the water, it could be bloat, caused by gulping air along with the food.

Tetra flake food is okay, as commercial mixes go, but always wet it before feeding. Holding a pinch in your fingers and releasing it under the surface does the trick.

However, to remain healthy, Goldies need more than dry mix and one of the nicest things you can do for them is to provide them with fresh veggies.

The easiest is a slice of zuccini, zapped for about 10 - 15 seconds, held onto the glass in the tank with a veggie clip.

You want to zap it just long enough to get it hot, but not cooked. They also love fresh peas that have been slightly steamed, or also zapped on a wet paper towel for just a few seconds, but then need to be sliced in half.

A slice of fresh orange is wonderful and gives them a Vit. C boost.

But while you are at the pet store, look for small sinking pellet food. One of the best I've ever found for Goldies is made by Ocean Nutrition, but it's hard to find in retail shops. The Hakari brand is good too and widely distributed.

Ken Menard (kensfish.com) has recently been selling a no carb, sinking pellet that is particularly fine. I bought some for my Wakin and they have responded as claimed with increased depth of color and activity and although it's a bit small for such large fish, Goldies will eat from the bottom as well as top or mid-water, so they get it all anyway.

As for the oranda on the bottom with a closed dorsal; unless you know what's wrong, it's hard to treat. I wish I could give you something exact but if it is bloat, you may have to simply wait it out and hope it recovers.

Meanwhile, keep water changing. No amount of fresh, conditioned water is excessive for Goldies.

Thanks Birdwidow,
Also on closer watch today he is moving eratic way and then even hiding straight up in a bush or staying on the bottom. I will try the zuchini soon as I can get some, I got some peas today but he wouldn't touch that , also got blood worms and he went after that, but that sure is gross!
I have a little 10 gallon tank that I thought about fixing for him as the bigger fish is worrying him a lot and I could leave a pea in there for a little while and see if he would eat it in time. I can't do that now because big boy will scoff it right up!
Any more suggestions on any of this would be appreciated.
I am not familiar with a veggie clip to hold the zuchini in the tank?
Thanks,
Glenda

Glenda,

By all means, put him in the 10 ASAP. If you start with clean conditioned water and change it 50% daily, you don't need a filter and if you medicate, don't want one anyway, although an airstone would be good, to keep the water as oxygenated as possible.

But don't feed him anything yet. First, get him swimming normally. A day or two sans food won't hurt him.

Once he is hopefully swimming normally, feed him all he wants but in small amounts, as often as is practial for you until he is fully recovered. If your local pet store carries it, buy a package of the frozen Goldfish food sold in the little cube packs. It would be a great treat for both of them several times weekly in any case.

Among the reasons to keep a sick fish in a bare (no gravel) unfiltered tank are: if you need to medicate, you shouldn't filter as it destroys the medicinal properties of the treatment, it allows you to monitor their stool and it's easy to syphon out all muck.

So set up that 10, fill it with fresh conditioned water the same temp as the main tank and to avoid any additional stress to the fish, scoop him out with a bowl or small pot, not a net. Then prepare to syphon out half of the water every day.

Add equal amounts of both Melafix and Primafix to the water per instructions on the bottles. When any FW fish is sick and you don't know for sure why; the best treatment is clean water and a combination of Melafix and Primafix. If your fish is suffering from a septic condition, being chocolate, you may not see blood in the fins but with Goldies that tends to be a common problem.

If it is a septic condition, a powerful antibiotic might be more quickly effective, but unless you are sure, it's best to avoid using meds that can kill as easily as cure. Melafix and Pimafix are both safe and pretty effective, especially if you catch it early.

If your fish is still trying to eat, you may pull him through. Just don't delay.

Septicemia is just about the most common issue with Goldies and why I and any other Goldie lovers will always press clean water, and MORE clean water.

Good luck. I know myself that while we may keep a vast variety of fish as pets, if we develop anything akin to an emotional tie, it's more than likely to be with a Goldie, or in your case; a Brownie?

I think anything is too late now.I found him this morning kind of floating at the bottom. If he's not dead he's like comatose. I put him in a bucket with a little salt sitting under a fan until I can clean out the other tank but I think he is gone.

I am going to print out all your information so hopefully I can do better. ...and yes I was already attached I named the other one smooch(has big lips):o)and this one bubbles.
I did not know I could put him in the 10 gal. without gravel and a filter or I would have yesterday.
I had bought some pimafix and was unsure about putting it in the tank with smooch.
Where did you get your veggie clip?
I fed smooch a pea this AM, how often would you give them this? Other than that all I have is the flake food and graules. I'll look for some of the other tomorrow.
I just hate feeling that my stupidity has maybe killed this pretty fish.
Thanks,
Glenda

Glenda,

If Bubbles is still alive, gently move him about in a normal swimming motion, to see if you can force oxygen through his gills.

If it's too late and he is dead, then so be it, but make it a point to keep both Melafix and Pimafix on-hand at all times, along with a small air pump. The smallest is enough to run an airstone in a 10.

You can safely put either or both Pimafix or Melafix in any tank, but need also to remove the charcoal from the filter or it will remove the medicine. But DO NOT add salt to the water. Goldies are strictly fresh water carp. A salt water dip may be beneficial when a fish's slime coat has been damaged due to injury, but only for a short time. Otherwise-never put a strictly FW fish into salted water.

The veggie clips are sold in just about any pet shop. They are really just all plastic clips with suction cups to hold them on the inside wall of the tank, to allow the fish to nibble at foods too large for them to eat whole. Lacking hands, they can't hold it down themselves.

I am very sorry about poor Bubbles, but we often learn from our mistakes, so don't abuse yourself over it.

But from here on: If you haven't already been doing it, water change the Goldie tank at least 50% every week and use a gravel cleaner to remove the muck that has sifted down into the gravel at the same time.

If a septic condition was the problem, it may have been due to gravel, as gravel without a large load of live plants to use up the nutrients may be the primary killer of Goldies, especially when there is an undergravel filter in the tank. Even with regular water changes, the water may look clean, but there is poison hiding below, just waiting to burst out and kill the fish.

I don't recall if you previously wrote that you did have a UG, but if you do, get rid of it and replace any small gravel with stones too large for either Smooch or your syphon hose to pick up. It will make cleaning a lot easier and allow you to get rid of the muck trapped beneath it every time you water change.

I use large river stones in my Goldie tank; just enough to cover the bottom and hide the weighted bases of the fake plants, but easy to move around to clean around them.

Another substrate cleaning trick, and a very old one, is to remove the media from the filter before you water change and replace it with only floss, then stir up the substrate for the floss to catch. Then, do the water change and install fresh media in the filter. A great filter floss is also the cheapest, the 100% poly sold for stuffing pillows. I buy it in large boxes at Wal-Mart, but for just one tank, a small bag will do.

I've killed some pretty nice fish myself over the years, not from stupidity any more than your own; but simply from well meaning ignorance. You don't come across as being in the least stupid, just not yet fully educated. There is a huge difference. Ignorance is easily addressed by education. Base stupidity is, alas; a permanent condition.

Feel better now? I hope so.