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Fin Rot-Fancy Goldfish

Posted by ketel1 Denver (My Page) on
Sun, Apr 30, 06 at 11:23

My largest (3") fancy goldie has shredded fins. This just showed up within the last week and may have coincided with my adding 2 new mates to his tank (he seemed fine then).

Should I treat the whole tank for this? The new tank mates are fine.

I did water tests and pH is at about 8 (too high?), salt at .04%, nitrite and ammonia at 0ppm. Temp is approx 74 degrees. I do have an under gravel filter (no gravel, I know-pretty!) and a HOT filter. Tank is octagonal, about 40 gallons.

THanks! This is the only goldie who survived my previous issues with dropsy, so I am trying my darndest to save him!
Beth


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Fin Rot-Fancy Goldfish

What are the nitrates? How many fish do you have total and how big are they? Did you quarentine the new fish before introducing them to the new tank? Do you mean HOB filter? Is he still active and eating?

8 is not to high for goldfish and you shouldn't attempt to change it. I think there are two possibilities: The new fish brought home finrot from the petstore, or it could be you have an aggressive fish.

Watch them to make sure there is no harrassment. Do you always keep the salinity at .4%? If you want to keep a constant salinity in the tank, go with .1%. For rot, lower it down to .3% for the rot. For now, I'd recomend keeping your water as clean as possible and add some melafix. If it is really bad or the salt/melafix combo doesn't work out, do large water changes and add carbon to get rid of the salt and melafix. Remove carbon and dose with Maracyn and Maracyn2.

I hope your fish feels better soon <3


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RE: Fin Rot-Fancy Goldfish

I did not check nitrate, will see if I have a test kit for that. I have 3 fish- 2 new, look like babies (fantails) about 1" each. Fin rot goldie is about 2.5". No aggression, the new guys are teeny and they all get along fine. I did not quarantine.
I do not always keep salinity at .04% (it is not .4%)....I added slight salt when I moved the big guy into the new tank. The little guys came about 3-4 weeks after big guy moved in.
Should I ADD salt to get it to .3%? Should I treat all 3, in same tank? I have melafix and will start that today.
Thanks.
Beth


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RE: Fin Rot-Fancy Goldfish

Oh,yes-he stil is active and eating, though he does not swim as well due to his troubles. Beth


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RE: Fin Rot-Fancy Goldfish

If you added the salt all at once it could have stressed him into rot, but I think the rot started only after you brought the new fish home, right?

Do you have a salinity test or did you just calculate it on your own? .4% is 4 teaspoons of salt per 1 gallon. Its a lot easier to go up than down without a salinity tester. I think if you change 1/4 of the water and add fresh you should be around .3% but I'm not too sure. I'm bad at math ><

If you are treating only with melafix and salt it should be okay to keep the newbies in the treated tank. If you go with the maracyns, its up to you to separate them or not. It is generally a pretty gentle medication, but if the new fish are having trouble adjusting or are extra sensitive and are not exhibiting signs of illness that the maracyns can treat, its a good idea to move them and keep them in a separate tank for a month before re-introducing.


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RE: Fin Rot-Fancy Goldfish

Yes, the rot started after the new kids came home. I noticed later today faint red streaks in his tail, so that's bacterial, correct? His fins are tattered looking, almost shredded, like they were wet tissue paper.

And-please note-the salinity test said I had .04% (not .4%). Big difference. Minor salt. Should I add some?
Thanks.
Beth


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RE: Fin Rot-Fancy Goldfish

Ooops, I'm sorry I mistook the place of the 0. Since you are seeing red streaks in the tail, I advise you go for the maracyns instead. The salt and melafix combo may work, but the red veins indicate severe stress and it can get bad fast. Better safe than sorry.


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RE: Fin Rot-Fancy Goldfish

I suggest some water changes and continue using salt.

How often are you changing the water at this point?

With goldfish (and their relatives) I've found that salt is the best cure.


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RE: Fin Rot-Fancy Goldfish

Skygee- do I add salt to .3% as littlehippygirl states?
I have done no water changes since adding the tankmates 1 week ago.

If so, do I do a water change first?
Beth


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RE: Fin Rot-Fancy Goldfish

I suggest water changes first. I like using salt because it boosts them with electrolytes - which is supportive during times of stress.

I've found that finrot is usually a sign of water conditions. With goldfish, even though they are small, they do still produce a bit of waste.

I know you've been having problems getting your tanks to settle down! But just know that my sister never had luck keeping her kid's tank with just two goldfish. She and her husband went overboard to keep a 30 gallon tank going to take care of small goldfish. Finally they gave up because it came down to their water. Just too hard to work with to make it for easy fish keeping. Goldfish are NOT easy fish to keep. I think they're harder than tropicals.

Here is a link that might be useful: koi vet


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RE: Fin Rot-Fancy Goldfish

You are not kidding! I used to have tropicals and I never had the trouble I have with these guys.
So- I hate to admit it but I got so busy this morning, I did not check on my big guy. I added the meds to their water last night, took the carbon out of the filter, had lots of water moving, air flowing. All looked good.
I will do a 25% water change and then add salt. Should I get it to .3%? When do I do the next water change? Then do I add salt again?
Thanks,
Beth


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RE: Fin Rot-Fancy Goldfish

Follow the directions in the link below if you want to bring the salinity up.

But I think you should try water changes first though. Add 1 tablespoon of salt for every 5 gallons... and replace that salt when you do water changes by using the same ratio (like if you're removing 5 gallons and adding clean water, add another tablespoon)

If you find that water changes aren't helping or you see things are getting worst, then look into maybe using meds.

I use meds as a last resort. I hate killing off the stuff in my filter.

And be very careful about mixing OTC meds with salt or with other meds!


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RE: Fin Rot-Fancy Goldfish

I did a 50% water change last night and added 4.5 T of salt to the tank (it's 48 gals). Big guy looks more active, swimming better but still ragged. I am confused though-do I do another 50% change tonight and add BACK that salt, and increase it incrementally to get it to .2%? Or-do I just add salt only (the koivet article does not state doing water changes with every salt application).
Then, do I repeat tomorrow to get it to .3%? I did have meds in the water (now 50% diluted). Should I do a water change for that reason alone, to try to get it out of there?
Thanks.
Beth


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RE: Fin Rot-Fancy Goldfish

The finrot most likely is due to poor water quality (with my goldfish tank, I have to do weekly water changes. I can be more lax with the tropical tank, but the goldfish tank doesn't let me get away with being lax!) And from the stress of the water quality, you have fin rot.

Upping the salinity to .3% is to rid the fish of parasites... which I don't think is the issue with your goldie.

Adding salt (1 tablespoon per 5 gallons) is supportive and maintenance care. So what you're mixing up is trying to combine these two aspects in using salt.

What I _think_ you should try first is supportive/maintenance care... to see if your goldie responds while at the same time letting your two new little ones settle into the tank. Don't attempt to up the salinity to .3% at this point in time.

I would do a 25% water change every other day, or at least change out 10 gallons a day. For every 10 gallons, then you'll be replacing 2 tablespoons of salt. That way the math is a bit easier for you.

See how the goldfish does with these water changes first. If you think that things are NOT improving over the week, then consider the next step.

Overall, I've found that if the fish is healthy to begin with, then fin repair is a rapid process.

If you wind up using any OTC meds, you may wind up needing to do a big water change to reduce the salinity of the water. Some meds do not mix well with salt. Use carbon in your filter to take out the rest of the meds.

One of the reasons I only use meds as a last resort is getting everything back in balance in the tank. With antibiotics you wind up killing all the bacteria - bad and good - in the tank. And sometimes after that the tank crashes and have to start the cycling process all over again.

Koi vet also has a board that is koi/goldfish related.


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RE: Fin Rot-Fancy Goldfish

I am having a very similar problem. I adopted two feeder goldfish a couple of months ago. One had a fuzzy nodule on his head, and Trisulfa by Mardel cleared that right up. My other has very, very persistent fin rot that I cannot seem to get him to shake. I am going to try your salt combo with Mela Fix and see how that works out. I trimmed the necrotic tissue off of his fins this morning, so hopefully that will give him a jump on getting rid of it with the salt/meds combo.


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RE: Fin Rot-Fancy Goldfish

Okay-now upon CLOSE inspection, he looks like he has ich. I see the tiniest of tiny spots all over. I used to have tropicals and this is much smaller than I recall with them. I also notice a small bulge in his belly near the front fins.
Now what? Koivet says SALT and raise temps to about 80 degrees. Shall I do water change and then add more salt and increase temps?
Goodness!
Beth


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RE: Fin Rot-Fancy Goldfish

Poor little guy :(

If its ich, .3% salinity should kill it, and a higher temp will shorten the lifespan. It will also kill many other parasites if this is not ich. Do both, but only raise the salinity .1% every 12 hours. I'm not sure how many tablespoons that is, but .1% is 1 teaspoon/gallon, .2% is 2 teaspoon/gallon, and .3% is 3 teaspoon per gallon. Add 1 teaspoon of disolved salt per gallon every 12 hours until up to .3%.

The bump worries me too... is the skin erodded, white or red in any way? Does it look like a pimple? Or do the scales look fine and its a lump under the skin? A photo would help a lot.


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RE: Fin Rot-Fancy Goldfish

I just did the math and I did not put nearly enough salt in. In 2 days I have only put 9 tablespoons in, which equals 27 teaspoons for 48 gallons. I will add another 7 T tonight (gosh, that sounds like so much!)I posted photos on the gallery, I cannot get up close. I think it IS ich- and his scales are quite dull, not shiny. Note the bump on his belly near his front lower fins. All my other goldies before died of dropsy symptoms-he does not seem to have those, I am convinced what he is showing is something the new ones brought in.
Thanks.
Beth


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RE: Fin Rot-Fancy Goldfish

Raise the temps for ich - that will definitely help, but do keep an eye on the high temps. Even fancy goldfish don't like it that warm. The higher temps will also increase the amount of waste, so keep on with the water changes.


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RE: Fin Rot-Fancy Goldfish

Day 2 of salting water: Big guy is sitting on the bottom of the tank this morning but he does swim frantically to get to food, then 'falls' back to the bottom. He looks 'naked'-does that make sense to anyone? His color is dull and his scales lack that shine, almost as if he had none-maybe this is from the ich (if that's what it is?)
He is breathing rapidly before and after feeding. Other 2 fish seem as energetic as always. I add more salt to get it to .2%. Water temp is at about 79-80 degrees. I test water after latest application and it reads approx .24%. My tank must actually be about 40 gals (its hexagonal, 12" sides x 30"H). I am adding salt for a 45-48 gal tank. I take some water out and add back fresh to try to get the salt a little lower.
That's all for now. I am disheartened by him being on the bottom. This guy has been through a lot and I hope it isn't too late. (his name is actually Ellis -'LS' for Lone Survivor)
Thanks.
Beth


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RE: Fin Rot-Fancy Goldfish

Like I said - Goldfish are not easy fish to keep. So don't beat yourself up.

I think in many ways I'm lucky. My water source is from an aquafer. And it's suitable for a lot of different types of fish without having to worry about pH issues or hard or soft water issues.

A lot of times we don't really "see" that a fish's health is failing until the outward signs are there. And then at that point it's not necessarily just one issue, but many.

With the history of your other fish, I was hoping this last one survived simply because he had the strongest constitution and thus would make it through!


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RE: Fin Rot-Fancy Goldfish

Skygee- Yes, he was the hardiest but he has sure been through a lot.
I have an interesting hardy goldish story. I got a goldfish on Halloween back in 1993. I named him Weenie (for halloween). He lived in a 3 gallon bowl for all but 2 weeks of his life. This bowl did not have aeration for the first 7-8 years! I also was not great about cleaning it often. I did not overfeed him, thank goodness. I think he was never 'healthy' but he hung in there and stayed as active as a fish alone in a small bowl can be.

When we completed our pond, I thought it would be great to put him in and let him have all that room to roam. He was quite old at this point-about 9-10 years old. He LOOKED old and acted old. I thought that if he died in the pond, at least he experienced that freedom for a while.

We put him in it and he swam and swam. He did not dive much, probably could not dive deep anyway. But he covered that whole pond. We did not see him much after that. 2 weeks later, we found him dead. I'll never know if putting him in the pond killed him or if he died from old age. I like to think he had a great last 2 weeks in the big wide open. That's what I would want myself!
Beth


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RE: Fin Rot-Fancy Goldfish

Hey Beth, do you have a strong air pump in the tank? Even though aquarium salt will improve gill function, high temperatures drastically lower the the amount of dissolved oxygen in the water. It may not be the case since the others seem fine, but if he's breathing heavilly, extra aeration should help him out at least a little. How sudden did the temperature rise to 80*F?


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RE: Fin Rot-Fancy Goldfish

After adding salt to get to .3% last night, big guy is still on the bottom this morning. He did eagerly come up to eat but then sank like a stone to the bottom. I noticed his tail is much more red-streaked now. I am very worried that he has a bacterial infection and decided to proceed to treat that with meds. I read somewhere that I should not mix meds and salt, but I am very concerned about him. He responded well once before to antibacterial treatment so I am hopeful, though he is much worse now than he was back then. BTW- I still saw what appears to be ich all over him. It is not affected by the salt-yet.

Should I start doing water changes anytime soon?
Any other words of wisdom?
Thanks.
Beth

(There is a strong air pump in the tank, but perhaps I should add another. I 'lowered' the temp to 78, the water just felt SO hot at 80-big difference, I know ;))


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RE: Fin Rot-Fancy Goldfish

If you have another air pump, go ahead. Smaller bubbles are better. Tall tanks have less dissolved oxygen, and its important to get as much aeration as you can with goldfish.

As far as mixing salt with medication, it depends on what you buy. You are using aquarium salt, right? Not table etc? I know you should never mix quick cure with salt...there are others, but I do not know them. Hopefully some one else knows? You want to buy an anti-parasite medicine designed to fight ich. Not all parasitic meds will fight ich, and avoid anything with copper if you can.

But it seems like he could have bacterial too... I say treat ich first, since he definately has that. The red streaks and rot could be bacterial, but could also be severe signs of stress too. Sorry I can't help more :(


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RE: Fin Rot-Fancy Goldfish

Do a water change before you do meds - just to be on the safe side. Either that or call up the manufacturer of the meds you're using (there are usually phone numbers listed on the packaging to call if you have questions) and ask.

I agree, the red streaks could be bacterial or from stress. Also usually is the sign of poor water quality (which with all your water changes, shouldn't be the reason in your case!)

If he is still eating, there are medicated goldfish food out there. I've gotten some in the pond section at Petco. The trick to get fish to eat medicated foods is to feed these first thing in the morning when they're hungry.


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RE: Fin Rot-Fancy Goldfish

Ummm Sky...did you see the pic in the gallery? :-(


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RE: Fin Rot-Fancy Goldfish

I just looked. Beth - is this the shape of your goldie? Or is it thinner than what your others looked like? The photo is a bit out of focus. There are so many hybrids out there, not sure eactly the sort of goldie you have. There are comet shaped goldfish and then the various distorted body type (like orandas, lionheads, moors, bubbleyes, pearls) which sometimes I think people are crossbreeding because some of these goldies I've seen in pet shops don't look like anything but mutt hybrids.

If it is emaciated as Sierra is seeing,and he IS eating - it could be fish TB...


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RE: Fin Rot-Fancy Goldfish

Can one of you guys please assist? my poor little dud (goldfish) has been sufering fin rot, i know this cuz half his tail has rotted away. My question is now its begining to look burnt at the ends, you know darkish brown, at the very end tips, like someone took a lighter & burnt him... is this a sighn of healing, kind of like a scab or is my little dude getting worse? I have also been tx 1st w/ salt, then maracyn, then tx for 4 dys with both maracyn 1 & 2 & nothing, now i am on the sinking tablets, called fin rot, that turns your hospital tak green....


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RE: Fin Rot-Fancy Goldfish

Check the ammonia and nitrites in the tank. They should be at 0. The dark edges could be a discoloration associated with finrot, or they could be ammonia burns. Ammonia burns are actually invisible, but once they start to heal, they darken, sometimes to black. If there is ammonia in the tank it could be what caused the rot in the first place. All those medications probably threw off your cycle, and my bet is that there is ammonia or nitrite in your water.


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RE: Fin Rot-Fancy Goldfish

Thank you. Its been almost 2 weeks, i see healing in his tail, the black is almost gone, unfortunatly he looks like "little nemo" now, with one teeny tiny left fin & the right one is normal, weird but cute.... thanks for the tip. Right now theirs no amonia, & i'm happy to report i just bought 2 babies that i am treating in a hospital tank BEFORE I INTRODUCE them 2 to their family... exciting. But i think thats the best safest way if u get new fish.


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RE: Fin Rot-Fancy Goldfish

Sorry for the late response, its usually more efficient to start your own thread. However, I'm glad you fish is doing better now, and just as happy to hear that you are quarentining new fish. His fins should grow back, but maybe not as long or beautiful as before.


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RE: Fin Rot-Fancy Goldfish

We have a wonderful goldfish diagnosing and treating expert on our website. Come on over for ongoing education in the care of fancy goldfish!

Here is a link that might be useful: AquaPuppies - A goldfish Community


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RE: Fin Rot-Fancy Goldfish

Nice looking site!


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