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oceanbubbles

New discus still adjusting?

oceanbubbles
18 years ago

Hey all. Two days ago I bought two new discus. When I was at the store they both looked very healthy and swam right up to the front of the tank to get food. Now that they are home.. one is still like that, right up in front when its time to eat. The other always hides. He only comes out when I turn the lights out or not by the tank. Could he still be adjusting? Im afraid he wont get enough food because he always hides in the back when everyone else comes up to eat.. I dont know whether hes too shy to eat with all the others yet.. or if hes scared of me. ( didnt seem like that at the store). Should I just give him time? Or mabey feed them at night? Any suggestions please!

Comments (38)

  • hosta_miser
    18 years ago

    It is likely the fish are still adjusting, but you don't give enough info to make that determination for sure. What are the water parameters? I assume you know discus do best at temps of 84-88F, and most other fish do not like it that warm. Any other fish in the tank? How about the landscape-are there plenty of places for them to hide comfortably? the last discus I got took about a week to fully adjust to their new surroundings.

    Hope this helps.

  • bullheimer
    18 years ago

    what you feedin em? mine like frozen worms or brine shrimp

  • oceanbubbles
    Original Author
    18 years ago

    I feed flakes and bloodworms. He has many plants to hide under and a huge peice of driftwood. My tank is 60 gallons. He is in with 4 other discus, 2 bala sharks, 2 gouramis, a pleco and a couple mollies. Water conditions are great...Im afraid since he hides when I come up to feed the others.. he wont get enough to eat. He seems timid of the other fish.. even though he is one of the two biggest. Any suggestions? Should I feed at night? ( he seems to swim around a lot more when I turn out the light)

  • sierra_z2b
    18 years ago

    Hi oceanbubbles,

    I can see a couple problems with what you have said in your above post.

    First of all.....your tank is simply not big enough! Discus get rather large, balas get very large, depending on what kind of gouramis you have...some get large some don't.

    Second of all, the fish you have listed are NOT compatible.

    If you want healthy discus, they should be housed in a tank by themselves. They thrive in a temp of 86F. A hiding discus is usually a sign of either illness or that it is being picked on. Another reason is to low of temp or poor water quality. You can try feeding at night but I don't think that will really solve what is causing the problem.

    Please do some research on the fish that you have.....although shops will sell mollies in fresh water...they do prefer some aquarium salt in the water.

    The balas will get very large.....I know from experience. They are beautiful.....but your tank is way to small for them.......the larger they get the more jumping they will do as well. They may jump out of the tank or hurt themselves hitting the hood.

    You don't mention what kind of gouramis or pleco you have...

    Sorry I don't like to give bad news.....

  • oceanbubbles
    Original Author
    18 years ago

    Well, I have not lost one fish since I have had all these guys. My water quality is always up to par.. I guess this discus is just shy. As far as tank mates go.. all my fish seem to do great. I did do research before I bought the fish. The Bala sharks I have are small.. I heard they usually dont grow too big in captivity, at least thats what Ive read. And all other fish are fully grown exept the discus. I know how big they get and before I bought the last 2 I made sure I asked many questions. They didnt advise me that I had too many. Plus, there are alot of plants and driftwood in my tank. All and all, I think Im having good luck, all healthy fish and getting along.. I guess thats why Im nervous about this new one.. Hopefully he will come around.

  • skygee
    18 years ago

    Definitely remove the gouramis - kissing fish get very big and they are one of the more aggressive of the gouramis.

    Don't think that because a fish is confined to a set tank size that they will stop growing. If you are providing ideal conditions (aside from tank size) they will continue to grow to their genetic disposition!

  • sierra_z2b
    18 years ago

    oceanbubbles.....I like your name here....by the way!

    I am sorry you didn't like my response.....but I was just trying to help you and your fish. I have a Masters in fish breeding and write for several fish magazines. I also have well over 20 years experience keeping and breeding fish. I also spent time as manager of a fishroom in a petstore.

    The bala sharks will get big.......I owned 3 and had them in a 60 gallon.......I spoke from experience....when they got to 12 inches I had to find them another home......They went into a 250 gallon aquarium and were quite a bit happier. They are very beautiful fish...but if as you say you have good water quality and are feeding them properly, they will grow.

    You mentioned that you lost a discus in another post.....which indicates some sort of a problem. It may have just been a genetic problem with that particular fish or it could have been some other problem. Without seeing the situation....I can't be certain.

    You have just added two new discus to your tank....did you quarantine these fish for a while before adding them to your community? This is a very important step.....to make sure you don't bring in parisites or disease to your already existing community.

    Please understand that discus are NOT just shy...this is an indication that there is a problem. If you don't find the problem and fix it...you may lose this fish. Plants and driftwood will NOT make up for very unsuitable tank mates.

    Are you telling us that the kissing gouramis you have are already 6 to 12 inches? The pleco can also cause problems..as I am not sure which type you have....if you have the common type..they can get anywhere from 12 to 19 inches. At night in the dark...discus will lay flat on the bottom of the tank to sleep. Plecos are active at night and can cause problems for the discus.

    The only suitable tank mates I can think of that will take the same water conditions and temps are cardinal tetras. And even then, there is a risk that large discus will eat them for lunch.

    I am not sure where you purchased your fish, however there are many uninformed people working in pet and fish shops. They may just tell you what you want to hear, to make the sale.

    A pretty good book to have a look at is: Baensch Aquarium Atlas or any of the older Axelrod books.

    Good Luck

  • skygee
    18 years ago

    It's really unfortunate when pet stores or chain stores have unknowledgeable people working in the fish dept. Even in some LFS they aren't always that knowledgeable. I'm not saying they're strictly there to make a sale, I think sometimes they really just don't care one way or the other!!

    That's really interesting to know about discus and their sleeping habits!! I've never tried my hand at discus because their water requirements seem overwhelming to me!

  • skygee
    18 years ago

    They are very beautiful fish! There really is a discus craze around me... but I've shied off from trying my hand since the water where I live really is perfect for African cichlids! Seems like every LFS is selling discus these days... and even some chain stores, too. In my situation, all I could think of if an emergency came up that required massive water changes discus just wouldn't survive with me.

  • oceanbubbles
    Original Author
    18 years ago

    I appreciate everyones knowlegde.... Unfortunatly where I got the gouramis the people are not as informed as i thought. I will take them out. Thanks for everyones help! I am new at this and dont really know much except what I read and hear, and also what the "experts" tell me. I didnt know Kiising gouramis got that big. They said 5 inches max! Yikes! Oh well , Im taking those out anyways. So keep the suggestions coming. Oh yeah.. today my new discus was out and eating with the others yaya!

  • oceanbubbles
    Original Author
    18 years ago

    Sierra and Skygee- Should I take the bala sharks out too?
    Let me know you guys are smart. haha

  • sierra_z2b
    18 years ago

    oceanbubbles,

    I am very glad to hear that your little discus is comming out more today and eating....that is a very good sign!!!

    Yes take out the bala sharks. And definately take out the pleco. At this point, I am more concerned that the pleco will cause damage to your discus. If you want a replacement for your pleco...for algae cleaning .....try an otocinclus or two. They stay smaller and keep the tank very clean. However that will also depend on the temp of your water. They prefer temps between 68 and 79F.

    ___________________________________________________

    Skygee,

    Good for you for considering the fish first!!! I know some people have a RO machine.....but using that or having to buy and lug water is a lot of work. Its just easier to find out what the water perameters are that come out of the tap and find fish that are suitable.

    Hmmmmm discus in chain stores....scary thought!!! Haha the discus craze has been around for more that 20 years.....Just remember that the other fish are just as beautiful to.

    Are you keeping cichlids? Also some livebearers like hard water, and goldfish will do well in hard water as well. But don't put them all in one community LOL! I know you know that! :)

  • skygee
    18 years ago

    I do have cichlids (talked into keeping them by one of my good friends... hmmm...) But I'm not really an african cichlid person. They're just way too aggressive for my tastes!! I prefer the south american cichlids (which are in my community tank)

    I love my community tank - and yes - have goldfish (indoors) AND koi in the pond outside. I sort of like the more peaceful fish and I've been trying to convince my friend to TAKE my cichlids since she loves them so much and then I can have another 55 gallon for another community tank (or for the goldfish).

    Inre the otos... they LOVE to school in large groups. So if you have a long tank, and have them in groups larger than 5 they are a trip to watch schooling back and forth.

    OceanB - I thought that kissing fish could get as large as 10-12 inches??? I know they can get a whole lot bigger than moonlights - and I have one moonlight that is 6 inches long. I don't know about balas.

    If anything DON'T get a chinese algae eater. These are great when they are babies, but don't do a thing with the algae when they get larger... and they also get more aggressive when they're larger, too.

    I thought maybe some species of corys could do okay in soft water?

  • oceanbubbles
    Original Author
    18 years ago

    Oh man.. I didnt know the kissers got that big. Makes me mad. I wish they were more informed at the store... or at least not leave info out just so Ill buy! ( I should never have gotten the bala sharks or the kissing gouramis! :( Grrr. Now, I have to take them back its so unfair for the fish. I feel bad, I just want them all to be happy. From now on.. If I get any more fish... Ill only go to wher I buy my discus. Its kind of a ways away.. but worth it because they are so knowlegable. But all my discus will be just fine for now. They are my favorite anyways.. their well-being means a lot to me!

  • hosta_miser
    18 years ago

    Oceanbubbles, you might want to look into seeing if there is a local aquarium society near you. I know there are many in CA. There are also several renown discus breeders in CA; Bing Seto pops into mind. You may want to do a search on the net and see if you can call them for their advice on discus.

    Also, as Sierra said, having good books on hand is the best way to learn. The Beansh Aquarium Atlas series is excellent, giving maintenance and breeding info for almost every fish pictured. Axelrod books tend to be good for pictures and not much else.

    I did notice that someone said discus like soft, acid water. There are many breeders around now that successfully breed and raise discus in hard alkaline water. If you are serious about discus, you should find a breeder that has water conditions similar to your own tap water so you don't need to spend a fortune conditioning the water for the fish.

    Joel

  • sierra_z2b
    18 years ago

    Skygee,

    I don't care much for african cichlids either. Some of them are sure pretty colorful though. :)) I have only kept them in species tanks, never as a community.

    What south american cichlids are you keeping?

    Ahhhhh a goldfish fan! What types are you keeping now? I think my favorite is the ryukin. They all seem to have such personality. When I had my indoor pond, they would follow me from end to end.

    I also find rasboras to make an interesting and different community tank. Although they arn't the most colorful fish. LOL

    Yup your right the otos are a schooling fish, but arn't quite as sociable as cory's. And can they ever eat algae!!! Once the tank is clean, algae wafers/pellets will have to be added to their diet.

    The chinese algae eaters are very nasty fish!!! Not a community tank fish at all.

    Cory's do well in soft water.....the problem is that they DON'T do well in higher temps that discus are kept in.

    _____________________________________________________

    Oceanbubbles.....You are learning....we all had to start somewhere...and learn a lot from our mistakes.

    Is there an aquarium club in your area? If there is, some of the more experienced members would probably be willing to also help you with information and where to find a reputable fish store. You may also be able to buy fish directly from some of the breeders in these clubs.

    How is your little discus doing today? Still comming out?

  • skygee
    18 years ago

    Blue rams, bolivian rams. They're such nice fish - interesting to watch. Can be aggressive with one another, but leave the others alone.

    Mine are always spawning (like the angels) - but in a community tank, no babies! (the only babies that manage to survive in the community tank are the platys) But I'm not trying to breed fish - I just like to enjoy their calming effect on the household. :)

    I have orandas and ryunkin inside... outside koi and shubunkin and comets. I haven't kept fancy goldfish in a very long time - and only just set up a new tank early this year after seeing some beautiful goldies come into a horrid fish store and I couldn't bear to see them die slowly in their tanks! I'm planning on setting up a small indoor pond with a fountain feature in the front porch - maybe just about 100 gallons or so (cement floor will hold the weight!) for them. Just 4 fish.

    And talk about bad planning without researching well - not only did I set up a cichlid tank (which is going great all considering) - I managed to select one of the more aggressive cichlids (Melanochromis auratus) out there and for some reason thought I could set up a community cichlid tank. He took care of all the other more mild-mannered cichlids I had in the tank as he grew older. Oh well. I've had him for 5 years now - so I'd really have to find him a good home if I were to give him up.

    Oh and I got so mad at my resident algae eater (now over 4 years old) since he harrassed a couple of gouramis I had to death that I dumped him into the cichlid tank... where of course he still resides and survives since he's so fast!

    Here is my last acquisition added to the indoor fish pool!
    {{gwi:376127}}

  • sierra_z2b
    18 years ago

    Awww he's a cute little guy, and it looks like he is still changing colors. I have never found a nice shubunkin, so I have never kept one. I've had koi, indoors and out. I have also kept the fancy goldfish indoors and out.

    I like rams and angels too. Chances are that the eggs would fungus because of your hard water anyway.

    When you mentioned Melanochromis auratus, I had to laugh!!!
    They are awful! LOL. I kept them because they are mouth brooders...... I had a few in the tank, can't remember the exact number but something like 10 or more. As a few males matured they were taken out....because of the fighting. Once they start to breed there is no stopping them. Eeeekksss.......I finally sent them off to a pet shop.....who thought they got a great deal because some of them were carrying babies in their mouths. LOL. This was not a nice relaxing tank to watch...if anything it caused lots of stress LOL!!!

    Your algae eater story is funny too.....sounds like a good place for him. LOL.....(I didn't say that hahahaha.)

    This is a pic of a high head oranga.....I put the red frame around the pic to represent that she had a red cap when she was a baby. She went through several color changes and ended up pure bright white.

    {{gwi:377059}}

  • skygee
    18 years ago

    Sadly, my oldest shubunkin (10 years old in my pond) I stupidly killed last year by putting a plant that was toxic in the pond. She was at least a foot long from nose to flowing tail - and mother to the present shubunkins in the pond. It's strange, when I first picked her up (and others) they were very cheap! Like $1.99 for 4 inch fish. Now shubunkin's seem to garner a high price - even if they're bitties of 2-3 inches!! Never could figure out the leap in prices.

    Yeah - good old Stripey (the melanochromis) - he was so cute when he was little. And pretty and yellow, too.

    I think bolivian rams are grossly overlooked because they're not as flashy as the german blues. But when healthy and in breeding form, bolivians are gorgeous!!

  • raul_in_mexico
    18 years ago

    Discus do better by themselves or in comunnity tanks with less lively fish like black tetras, bleeding heart tetras, phantom tetras, corydoras catfish, dwarf plecos. Angels are not good companions for discus, they are too agressive when it comes to feeding and leave the discuss without anything left. Probably the only "gourami" I would rocommend to a discus tank would be Colisa lalia or Colisa chuna.

  • oceanbubbles
    Original Author
    18 years ago

    Well, I removed the Gouramis yesterday. Man! What a mission! They are so damn fast it took me about 40 minuetes to get them out! Since they are gone I think my "shy" discus is doing even better.. still out swimming in front with the others. Im glad I took those gouramis out. They were getting annoying. I think the discus didnt appreciate their antics either. I didnt know they had aquarium clubs. Thats pretty cool. Sounds fun, I'll look into that. There sure is a lot to learn about this hobby. But Its fun. I love all my discus so much. I want to make sure they are very happy. It seems like they are all doing great. The place where I bought them is very nice. Specializes only in fish... unlike other places. I will only go there from now on. Its so fun to see the discus grow. I have had the little ones for about 5 months now... slowly but surley I can see them getting bigger. Its exciting. By the way.. what is a shubunkin? (Thats a cute name!)

  • skygee
    18 years ago

    It's a type of goldfish (carp)

    Cold water fish!

    {{gwi:377063}}
    Sorry can't access any of my better photos - the shubunkin is the little one swimming on top. This is a two year old baby.
    {{gwi:375716}}

  • oceanbubbles
    Original Author
    18 years ago

    Wow... is that snow around that pond? Thats awesome. How does it not freeze over?

  • sierra_z2b
    18 years ago

    raul.....Keeping discus by themselves is pretty much what I was trying to express. Most tetras won't make good tank mates for discus because they don't take the same water temps as discus. Tetras prefer water temps from about 76F to 81 or 82F....Discus like temps of 86F.

    I to have already expressed my concerns with the larger gouramis and said that if gouramis are a must...then perhaps the dwarf gouramis would be the lesser of two evils.

    Corys deffinately will NOT take the higher temps. Even the dwarf plecos (peckoltia sp. or Ancistrus sp.) Don't like the higher temps that the discus like. Also these species are still active at night.
    _____________________________________________________

    Skygee....Sorry to hear of your lose....they really do become pets when you have had them for so long. You have babies so that is a good thing, at least.
    Shubunkins are really hard to find.....when I have found them they have fin rot and sores and well just look really sad and pathetic. I haven't even looked at the prices because the fish look so bad.

    Hee hee....ya the yellow is very pretty until the males grow and mature, and turn black.....Hmmmm

    BTW goldfish are hard to take pics of.....I got quite a few pics of fish bums LOL. Just as I would go to snap...they turn and swim away. Here I think she was saying feed me and I will let you take my pic...either that or she was trying to show me her belly was empty. LOL!!!

    Opppssss I think we sort of changed the subject of oceanbubbles topic......Sorry bout that.....Should we start new threads on goldfish and south american cichlids?
    ____________________________________________________

    Oceanbubbles.....good for you, you are well on your way to having a happier tank. Have you removed the pleco and balas yet as well?

    Aquarium clubs can be lots of fun. Some of them will have bowl shows at their monthly meetings......where you take what ever fish they specify and they will judge them and there is usually some little prize if you win. Some also have annual shows.....a lot of work but still lots of fun. Some clubs even have a monthly or bi-monthy newsletter or magazine....which is usually packed full of information on how to keep and breed some different fish.

  • sierra_z2b
    18 years ago

    Hee hee you were busy posting as I was writing! Very nice shubunkin and koi!!! I like the long flowing fins on the shubunkin!!!

  • oceanbubbles
    Original Author
    18 years ago

    Im going to take those out today... after my ordeal yesterday I thought that was enough for one day. I didnt want to stress the other fish out too much. Im sure those balas are going to give me a run for my money too. Grrr. Anyone have any suggestions about netting them? Shuld I try at night when the light is off... when they are "sleepy" I dont know. I just have a feeling it is gonna be a huge pain in the ass.

  • skygee
    18 years ago

    Hmm... OceanB - did you try the two net technique?? (one net to block, the other to scoop) It helps if you can remove any rocks or decorations. Harder when you have live plants that are growing and established, though!!!

    The pond WILL freeze over. Two winters ago it was terrible - everything was freezing for the first time - I mean completely over. I'm in zone 7 - so generally winters are not THAT bad - there might be some freezing, but not to the point where the total surface is rock solid! It was the first year in 15 that I actually had to use a heater (along with the bubbler) to keep it open - and even then it only was open exactly where the heater was. Big electric bill.

    That was taken 3 years ago in early APRIL... when we had a very freaky snowstorm. (everything melted pretty much in a couple of days)

  • oceanbubbles
    Original Author
    18 years ago

    So your fish stay alive under the ice? What do they eat?

  • raul_in_mexico
    18 years ago

    Sierra I had been a hobbyist for 36 years, not only have I kept discus with corys and tetras and I kept mine at 90° without any problem, but also have bred them in several ocassions when I had the desire to do it. Of course that breeding pairs were separated in their own tanks. I no longer keep fish, tore down my fish room ( 48, 25 gallon tanks ) and sold all the fish and equipment. I´m not a newbie to fishkeeping.

  • skygee
    18 years ago

    Raul - why did you pull down all your tanks? Did you find a different past time?? My indoor fish population has grown the past few years - but I really needed the calming effect that fishkeeping brings!!

    I've been keeping a pond for a long time, though... and from that I do realize that not everyone can simply say this works one way and not the other. I do feel that to a certain extent, fish can adapt to water parameters not normal for their species (like breeding mollies that adapt a bit more to less brackish water conditions) - but behavior innate to a species is pretty hard to get around.

  • imaginators
    18 years ago

    Well Hi all of you,
    Oceanbubbles,
    The goldfish and koi go into a dormant state when Winter comes. Not the Winter you have in Newport Beach. Ha! They do not eat. Their digestive system slows down considerably. When the pond ices over, it is best to have air circulating in the water for the fish, by using an air stone or air pump. My air pump also keeps a hole in the iced/snow pond.

    When Winter comes I really focus on my indoor aquarium to keep me going. This last Winter, I ended up buying an Aqua Pharmeceutcal tap water purifier for my aquarium. It is a great and cheap investment for my Angel fish and my Orchids.

    Skygee,
    You fish are awesome. I bet you are so glad it is spring.

    I use to have several Discus when I lived in CA. I then had a 75 gallon aquarium. I would weekly go out and get live worms for them at the fish store. I enjoyed the Turquoise Discus so much.
    Theresa

  • oceanbubbles
    Original Author
    18 years ago

    Thats pretty intersting Skgee... I never even knew that fish could survive in those conditions! Exept for like.. in Antarctica! haha. Anyways, Im sure it looks beautiful with all that snow around it. Yes, I give them live worms a lot. Its very fun to watch them gobble those things up! By the way, I have 3 small discus and two medium/on-the-verge large discus. So I have 2 more questions for you guys: 1. Should I get one more? I heard they should be in schools of 6 or more. and #2: How many times a day should they eat? Right now I feed a little flakes in the morning and about 4 worms each at night. Is this right? Thanks guys! You guys have hepled me so much!!!

  • imaginators
    18 years ago

    Hi again oceanbubbles,
    As you know the rule is 1" fish per one gallon. Discus can grow around 5" to 6" in a aquarium. So I figured for a 60 gallon tank you are allowed ten (six inch) Discus. If that was all that you were going to have in your tank. Now it seems to me Discus can get even bigger in their natural habitat. I use to feed them live worms once a day and stored the container of live worms in the refrigerator. My Discus were spoiled, they would not eat flakes.
    Yes, I was amazed to see my koi fish survive the icy pond Winters.
    Theresa
    imaginators

  • sierra_z2b
    18 years ago

    Hi raul,

    I am glad to hear that it worked for you at such high temps. but that in not the norm!!!.

    I prefer to teach novice fishkeepers to keep fish that are compatible for tank size, temp and water conditions, and compatibility to each other. I would never recommend that a novice fishkeeper start by pushing the limits.

    BTW I have 20+ years experience with fishkeeping and fishbreeding and maintaining my own large fishroom.....I won't say the exact number of years because that makes me damn old. LOL!!! I specialized in different fishes at different times...catfishes.....mainly cory's for quite a few years. I also have the education in both fish and aquarium plants to back up my experiences and what I say. My list goes on, but I don't see where that really matters.

    Skygee,

    Yes fish can be pretty adabtable....however if the proper conditions can be set up for their environment why not provide it.

    Mollys are proun to fungus, so they are best suited for tank water with salt in it. They don't have to be kept in water with salt in it.....however they do much better. Isn't that what most fishkeepers want...to have the healthiest fish possible?

    Oceanbubbles,

    .....I don't want to confuse you by not agreeing with raul.....nothing is worse than conflicting information. So I am going to leave......if you want my help however just let me know, since I already started to help you.

    You are definately on the right track now with your discus!!! Keep up the good work! and keep learning. Happy fishkeeping to you and your fish!!! :)

  • skygee
    18 years ago

    Oh no - but of course it's best to provide what is natural to the fish - but what I've found in my tanks - babies born in the tank (and survive) seem more adapted to the water parameters I have from the tap than their parents.

    I've had just a few (like 2?) mollies that actually didn't do badly in freshwater... but I think they were oddities - and all in all, they did better in a brackish tank anyway. I have never had luck with mollies (breeding-wise) unless they were in water with salt. They seem much more active and healthier than if kept in freshwater situations.

  • raul_in_mexico
    18 years ago

    No, not a different hobby, I also fish and bred show quality poodles and bichons ( not for sale, for me )and showed them, the only thing I haven´t won yet is a BIS, I tore down my fishroom because we moved and there wasn´t enough space in the new house for it, it´s a bummer I know but it was one of two things, dogs or fish, I no longer breed nor show dogs, with two children ( 2 years and 8 months old ) you never have enough money left ( it´s incredible the ammount of daipers they wear on a daily basis ) for other hobbies. Besides the freshwater tanks I had a couple of saltwater tanks too, invertebrates and fish, those were a little bit more tricky but it sure was fun to have them, living corals are just beautiful and very interesting creatures.

  • imaginators
    18 years ago

    Hi Raul and all,
    Yes children can take up your budget. Of my 2 sons the last one is in college. Now dogs you say...I have a great white pryanees of 11 years old and within the past 2 years 5 cats. 2 were rescued. All these years we thought our large 100 lb. dog hated cats...not so..very protective. You ask why 5 cats, we are crazy. Well they make my husband and I laugh and release our stress. They have become like our new children. I guess it is 50s mid life thing. Our pets are indoors. We found if you keep your pet(s) outdoors, you lose that special bond with them. The only pets that are out doors are my 9 Kois and 2 goldfish.
    Theresa

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