Return to the Aquariums Forum | Post a Follow-Up

 o
I got the fish but.....

Posted by meghan2 (My Page) on
Wed, Jul 4, 07 at 18:57

Hey guys, so I got 3 gold fish and an algae eater...the two goldfish are swimming araound and stuff, but the black moor goldfish just sits on the bottom of the tank...we called the pet store...and they said that is what they do until you feed them again. Is that so? All the levels are fine in the tank. The water is cloudy though but that is because the cyle has started right? I even put the water clarifier but didn't help. The water levels are good so I'm wondering if anyone knows that the black moor goldfish indeed just hang around on the bottom....please let me know..Thanks in advance!


Follow-Up Postings:

 o
RE: I got the fish but.....

Sometimes the sitting arround the bottom is just stress from the move and/or getting used to the new tank mates and surroundings. Was the Black Moor sitting at the bottom of the tank at the store? Sounds like bad advise from the pet store, but I am not familiar with black moor behavior. I had one ages ago, I don't remember it sitting at the bottom though. Don't use tank clarifier additives! Especially while trying to establish a cycle. Sometimes cloudy water is caused by aloe based products like stress coat and the like. Aloe can have a reaction with your water supply and get cloudy. Also could be the start of the cycle, goldfish are poop machines and ammonia may come alot quicker then tropicals. But don't worry about the cloudy water. If it is not the bacteria bloom from the cycle, or aloe it could also be diatoms. Diatoms is also called brown algae. It is also common in a new tank. They are little animals that feed on silicates. New tanks and equiptment are plastics, glass and silicone caulk. All 3 things have tons of silicates. They will leech into the water alot at first to create food. After 1-6 months the silicates will slow down being leeched. The diatoms die off and get removed during partial water changes (PWC's) and by the filter. The best way to handle cloudy water is by finding the source, then treating that. Water clarifiers are not good because they can comprimise your biofilter which you are trying to establish. That is one good reason among many more. What kind of algae eater? 4 fish is alot to put into an unestablished tank of your size and type fish. 1 would have been good enough to start, or 2 max.


 o
RE: I got the fish but.....

Hi Woeisme,
The black moor died....we named him pepper. Anyway, he was fine last night and this morning.....swimming around and everything...I just came home to check on him...and he was at the bottom of the tank not moving....I tried to touch him, and then he just floated...he wasn't breathing...I'm so heart broken....his black color had faded....turning to orange......the ammonia is about 0-0.2......all the other levels were fine..but I checked the ammonia yesterday and it was safe....do you know what happened...I feel horrible....but don't even know what caused this.....


 o
RE: I got the fish but.....

Read the thread some started about acclimating fish properly. Sometimes the shock of transport is too much for the fish. it may have already been weekend by stress or disease before you got it. These things happen from time to time. I wouldn't replace Pepper just yet. Let the new set-up "cook" for a while. Sorry for the loss.


 o
RE: I got the fish but.....Forgot to mention

Put this on the list of reasons not to use water clarifiers. They are usually a cleating agent. They can also have and put undue stress on a fish. They can be harmful to some fish. There are safe additives for aquariums and others... not so much. Other things to avoid pH down products, snail-free products, algae killing products to name a few. Good things to add, live plants, make sure you have proper lighting and conditions for them. Java ferns do good in almost any aquarium.


 o
RE: I got the fish but.....

Hey..yeah..I'm not getting any more fish for a while...I want to make sure that they are okay...that is most important..so even when I change the water...I should not add the conditioner? Also, one pet store said to change 25% of the water every 3-5 days, since it is a new tank...the other pet store said to wait a week and a half...what do you recommend?

Thanks is advance!


 o
RE: I got the fish but.....

Monitor the ammonia daily as I have said. The ammonia level will dictate when to do a PWC, also how much and how frequently. You want to keep the ammonia level between .25 and .50ppm. Once the level indicates ammonia is .50ppm or higher do a PWC to dilute the ammonia concentration. The only conditioner needed is to remove chlorine, and detox chloramine, ammonia and heavy metal. I reccomend Prime by Seachem for this. You can double the dose without harming fish or your biofilters progress. Prime also doesn't buffer pH up as some others do. Eventually ammonia wont be detectable and nitrite will spike. There is no way to determine how long this will take because of the variables in everyones water chemistry. Only add the conditioner for the ammount of water you are going to replace ( aside of doubling to block ammonia). For example you remove 25% of water from a 20 gallon tank, use enough conditioner to treat the 5 gallons (25% of 20G = 5G). The safest way to determine water changes is by testing when starting a new tank. By 2 weeks or 3-5 days the ammonia levels may be so toxic it can do long term damage to the fish, or just kill them.


 o
RE: I got the fish but.....

Okay..sounds good....once again thank you...you've cleared so many questions....well I've been testing all the levels...even ammonia...sometimes I test em twice a day..if I see something..for example I saw some bubbles forming at the top corner of the tank..so I tested ..all okay..then I saw the filter was causing a few tiny bubbles and they had collected...but my ammonia is between 0 and 0.25..that is okay right? cause the test kit says it is safe....oh and I'm still a little confused about the how much and how often to change the water? I should change it once a week to clean the tank, but if I see ammonia or nitrate or nitrite rising change some water??? Thanks :)


 o
RE: I got the fish but.....

"but my ammonia is between 0 and 0.25..that is okay right?"

Yes, if you haven't got a 2 part reagent ammonia test (reagent is a chemical that is added to the water sample to get a reaction) I would reccomend you get it. Other tests are easily skewed by water conditioners. Since you will be doing a lot of PWC's to keep ammonia under control, and a lot of ammonia tests, the API one is a good deal. Before I said to keep the level under .25ppm, just keep it under 1.0ppm, under 1.0 not any more!

"oh and I'm still a little confused about the how much and how often to change the water? I should change it once a week to clean the tank, but if I see ammonia or nitrate or nitrite rising change some water??? Thanks :)"

You can do a PWC every week, good practice. Usually when doing a PWC you should be vacuuming the gravel. This removes water as well as fish poop and uneaten food. For now just hoover over the gravels surface to remove loose stuff, until the aquarium is in cycle. When you see ammonia rising above 1.0ppm you should change enough water to dilute the ammonia to be about .25ppm. The goal for the first stage is to keep the ammonia level between .25 and 1.0ppm. Although the ammonia is still toxic and damaging the fish, it is necessary to have this level. The ammonia is "food" for the bacteria to grow. If there is no food, any bacteria will starve and die. This bacteria needs to be alive to progress in establishing cycle. Nitrite toxicity can be blocked by using aquarium salt. But when the levels really spike you will have to dilute it also. Try to keep your water temp as low as possible. This is easier for goldfish because they are cold water fish and can tolerate lower temps. Ammonia actually becomes more toxic at higher temps. Higher temps=less oxygen. Oh yah if you have any bubblestones, aerators, wands etc. turn them on, full power. Bacteria loves oxygen, and as stated ammonia is less toxic with more oxygen. Once ammonia spikes then starts to "go away" by itself nitrite will start to show. NitRITE will then turn the ammonia into NiTRATE. NiTrate is pretty harmless at low levels. Once NiTRATE gets to 50ppm is when you NEED to change your water, or PWC. This is the reason constant maintainance is needed in an aquarium. You need to remove harmless NiTRATES before they concentrate to too high of level. Also you will be removing other organic matter and Dissolved Solids to keep the water "clean". When doing PWC's rinse your filters pad and change the activated Carbon ( sometimes called charcoal) You shouldn't change the pad or sponge of a filter unless it is totally disintergrated. The activated carbon (AC) can be changed frequently. What kind of filter do you have?
Anyway a tank has "cycled" (more accurate term is in cycle) when you can no longer detect ammonia, nitrite and nitrate levels slowly rise. After you are in cycle, with goldfish, I would suggest 25% PWC weekly, more if needed to keep water looking good and nitrates <50ppm. Feed sparingly durring the establishment of the cycle. This keeps ammonia levels under control. Remember the Dr Suess book," Feed so much, but no more, never more then a spot. Or something may happen, you never know what"=0)


 o
RE: I got the fish but.....

Hey Woesime....thank you sooooo much....things are making some sense now....I really didn't think having fish was going to be so complicated....okay I'm gonna get the API test..can you send me the link where I can get it? The tank came with the filter, the thermometer and all the stuff that comes with a start up kit...so that is what we have....I've been monitoring all the levels twice a day....since Pepper I've become more paraniod..but once again thanks :)


 o
RE: I got the fish but.....

Glad it's starting to come together. No one ever thinks it is complicated, sometimes with alot of luck, it isn't. But most of the posts on fish forum boards are from newer people to the hobby wondering why there fish keep dying and the pet store peoples advise isn't working. copy and paste this to your address bar for the master test kit. http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=4454&N=2004+114130 .It has Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate and pH kits. There is a $7-8 dollar S&H fee here, but as long as you buy more then one item you really save. Other then that, pet stores jack the price up about $7-8 on things because they are paying for delivery and stocking items. Just the ammonia test is at the bottom link. Drs F&S have good prices on alot of equiptment so if you where thinking of anything else check the site. They have the best prices on that Python Gravel Vac. I was talking about. Other then that both Petsmart and Petco sell this test for about $10.

Here is a link that might be useful: API test kit.


 o
RE: I got the fish but.....

Once you establish a routein you won't have to test the water as often. Once a month [or much longer], once the water change schedule stays ahead the ammo levels. I always wondered why the pet shops don't explain how to maintain tanks better as so many leave the hobby after massive die offs.


 o
RE: I got the fish but.....

I agree. I don't test for things as often in my established tanks. Only when I suspect something or a few times yearly, if that. I do use it (test kits) for new set ups, or QT tanks. But when someone is struggling for a month or 3 to get things right, you can go through a half a bottle of reagent or tons of strip tests.


 o
RE: I got the fish but.....

Hey guys...yeah to be honest I've been testing the water twice a day...cause I'm so paranoid..Last night I saw a white and red thing coming out of one of my fish..and I had read the article on worms so I got really paranoid...I took it out of the tank but was unable to determine whether it was a worm or not..should I treat anyway..I mean the fish is eating and all looks okay...but being new one can never be so true...anything particular I should look for...Thanks in advance


 o
RE: I got the fish but.....

Sometimes it is just food, It maybe a parasite though. Keep a close eye on it before panicing. Search yahoo or google for fish parasite pics. This way you can see what to look for.


 o
RE: I got the fish but.....

Hey Woeisme....I checked again and this time it was white..so maybe it WAS the food..but I will keep a close eye on that....I'm also going to order that kit...it looks really good and it is a good deal for the price....I bought the Mardel Master Kit from the Pet store, and it cost me $22.99...anyway..when do the fish start growing/putting on weight? Once again..thanks


 o
RE: I got the fish but.....

Usually fish grow slowely enough that its hard to notice. I have 15 cardinals in my 150gal for a few years. When I added a few more I was shocked the new ones were about 1/2 the size. Cut down the testing to once a day unless you want to check after a water change. Remember the more you feed the faster they grow but the load on your filter goes up to.


 o
RE: I got the fish but.....

wow can't believe that you have a 150 gallon tank ..that is awesome....Anyway, I am only checking the water once a day now....thanks... :)


 o
RE: I got the fish but.....

meghan2, the 150 is my small tank, also have a 240gal saltwater tank and a 130gal indoor pond. The key to fishkeeping for me is to make maintenance as easy as possible or you'll get burned out in the long run.


 o Post a Follow-Up

Please Note: Only registered members are able to post messages to this forum.

    If you are a member, please log in.

    If you aren't yet a member, join now!


Return to the Aquariums Forum

Information about Posting

  • You must be logged in to post a message. Once you are logged in, a posting window will appear at the bottom of the messages. If you are not a member, please register for an account.
  • Please review our Rules of Play before posting.
  • Posting is a two-step process. Once you have composed your message, you will be taken to the preview page. You will then have a chance to review your post, make changes and upload photos.
  • After posting your message, you may need to refresh the forum page in order to see it.
  • Before posting copyrighted material, please read about Copyright and Fair Use.
  • We have a strict no-advertising policy!
  • If you would like to practice posting or uploading photos, please visit our Test forum.
  • If you need assistance, please Contact Us and we will be happy to help.


Learn more about in-text links on this page here