I tested my tap waters GH, tested 6dGH , very faint and hard to distiguish as you stated. I raised the dGH 1 degree using epsom salts (magnesium sulphate). The coloration of the water was a little easier to distiguish without straining an eye. I then raised the dGH again with Epsom salts 1 more degree. The difference was prominent, no mistake in water color. A tip to distinguish the color in our situation without adding epsom salts - Crumple a piece of paper towel up and place it behind the test tube. Have the test tube faceing you so the gap between the "fill line" is completely visible, and eye level ( I put it on the counter top in the kitchen and squat down), fluorescent lighting helps alot not to skew colorations. After placing the first drop and shaking look at the water line, and observe the concave part, this will be darker then the rest of the solution. Conclusion my tap water is hardened mainly from calcium content as apposed to magnesium. Magnesium probably reacts better with the reagent then calcium.- You can try raising your GH with epsom salts at the rate of 1 tsp. per 3ppm GH for 50 gallons of water or 6 tsp. for 1 dGH for 50 Gal. I think I may try another brand test for GH to see if it is better. But even with this "flaw" I am sure it is very accurate. Also, magnesium is useful for a trace supplement in aquatic plants so if anything you know how to dose. If you do add it, do it gradually, say a 1/2 tsp. diluted in a cup of warm water per week. Check the GH after a few hours to confirm dosage. Other benefits is epsom salt acts as a laxitive, good for angel's that can easily get "bloat" because of their body shape. Nice to soak your feet in after pacing, worrying about your fish.

"ihaven't noticed it [flashing or scratching] since i stopped adding a plant additive that had a questionable (for me) ingredient"---- correction: saw it today.

AP's reply: "Check the lot number, on the bottle of solution. The last four digits are month and year of manufacture. The GH test kits are only good for 3 years so if it is expired it will not give you a correct reading. If the product is ok you could just have really hard water. Although I do not think that this is the case due to the KH level being 6."

i had wondered about that, looked for an expiration date even. now i know where to look! i had tried looknig down the tube while on top of a white paper. i stll couldn't differentiate. maybe i am just not good at these shades of yellow and green. they didn't say whether the initial orange drop would be light orange or orange orange.

woeisme, i just love that you did this little experiment...and "Nice to soak your feet in after pacing, worrying about your fish."---LMAO! i will remember that the meniscus is darker...good tip. i was looking at my plant veins today...i may actually need some magnesium but i will double check my book. it may just be normal for the veins to be slightly darker. seems epsom salts may be more economical, as well. too bad i already dumped it in my garden.

well, this afternoon i was going to do the nitrate test instead of taking it back. wouldn't you know it? i had to take it back anyway b/c there was no dropper top! i then ran out of time before work after fighting with my hob filter. but good news that i have mixed feelings about: i bought some frozen food, thawed a small amount. finally! pouty clamped fin ate- a piece. what bugs me is the others didn't find it too impressive. they ignored it for the most part. my long fin black likes to take the tiny crumbs of flake food, but the tiny same size pieces of this was ignored. i am thinking it is time for tetras but no room. what do you think?

my ammonia still tested 0. i will check nitrates and nitrites tonight...waiting for the store to get a pH test kit. i also need to find some new naupli cysts. i wasted soo much money! my LARGE can ended up getting stored in the attic for the last 7 years. i decided to try it anyway...no luck. ididn't think so with the temp extremes but you never know.

Meniscus, why didn't I think of that. I also tried looking straight down, it didn't help. I discovered the crumpled up paper towel by accident, spilt some water on the counter and it just ended up there. I noticed the "meniscus" just trying to see the color. I wondered about the faded color, but haven't had reason to check my tap water in a while. The tricky thing with well water is wheather affects it. My water now just from this check is softer both GH and KH then the last time I checked it. Also the pH when gassed off is 6.9ppm unlike the 7.8 ppm it used to be. I thought for a while I was making too strong of a yeast mixture in the DIY CO2 injection. I add a little epsom because the plants seem to respond well to it. Going to check my post in another forum about this test. Oh yeah, my Lot No. is printed on the top of the label on the bottle. If you get a chance add a tsp. of diluted epsom salts to the aquarium water, wait a few hours and check GH, in your 25 gal. a total of 3 tsp. should only raise the GH approx. 1 dGH. Just for Chits and giggles

"Meniscus, why didn't I think of that"-- i am surprised i even remembered it! usually i can't.

turns out that my gh and kh bottles are may and april 2001...i would say the gh is expired accoring to aquarium pharmaceuticals. i am waiting for their answer on whether to deal with the pet store where i just bought it last week, or directly with a.q.

last night tests: nitrite- 0 :)
nitrate- well, the test color chart goes from five and skips to 10. mine was slightly a shade darker than 5. so, 6 maybe?

i can cerrainly understand weather affecting well water. things tend to get concentrated if the water veins are not being refreshed by precipitation...or chemical run off.

do you think angels benefit from "dither fish" like other cichlids...i have been rereading my old aquarium magazines.

my temp is 75-76.

Test the tap to make sure the nitrate is from the cycling. In a planted tank 5-10ppm nitrate is normal. A non-planted up to 40ppm is OK, then time to PWC. Mine usually never gets above 5ppm. If no nitrate in tap and 0ppm both nitrite and ammonia then the tank is cycling. Other cichlids, I dont think apistograma but rams may work (think I have seen them together), discus would be risky. Don't take this as gospel, I am not sure. The GH test is hard to see, from what I have heard of softwater conditions ( I am refering to magnessium and calcium when I say soft, not KH). If you have put in more than 6 drops and the water doesn't change to a darker orange, then the bottle is deffective, or you have a lower GH than you think.

Did a quick yahoo search, check this out.

Here is a link that might be useful: Click the angelfish and others for compatibility

hey! i like that site, thank you. even found nutritional needs for omnivore and carnivore :)
lots to look at still...

i missed the first post! hmmmm, how can my tank be cycling? here is why: it has been set up for the last 7+ years...except for the 2 days it waited when i moved it from my grandmother's to my house. all i can think of is the 20 gal water change...i suppose it would recycle but i didn't even think of that. so, it had 2 corys and a dusting of substrate in it plus the filter operating for a month prior to adding the other fish, substrate, and plant.

my tap had 0 nitrates. was i suppose to test nitrite and ammonia for tap as well? oh, i also do a partial, about 10-15% weekly.

i don't think a larger species fish added to a 25 gal is probably a good idea? correct me if i am wrong. i was thinking of the term "dither" fish...possibly stimulates the cichlid...and at times adding a "dither" fish initiated improved appetite, less intraspecies aggression due to the focus on interspecies aggression, and even breeding. this may sound cold, but i am not concerned about a tetra being too small (specifically not now) as i want these angels to eat! head and tail light tetras are a bit larger, also. i read on hatchet fish which said somewhere feeding the marble hatchets may be difficult.

i think i have a problem with disolved organics that my filter isn't removing (whisper biobag and carbon). this can cause problems also, correct?

I think woe means just from the nitrogen cycle.

If you think you have problems with doc (you're getting foam right?) then up the waterchanges.

Adrea

uuuooooh. i'm dense :)

actually, adrea, i don't have any foam. but i can see particles floating around. more than i think there should be (and it isn't my sand, i don't know what it is).

fairy_toadmother-
How long have you had the Angels? Angelfish at pet stores are often stressed and diseased. I have seen whole groups of pet shop angels turn whitish, clamp their fins, and die in a few short days. This is different than the Angels found in shops many years ago. Angels should be active, and very eager to eat. You bred Angels years ago, so I realize you are not a beginner to fish or to Angels. I have sometimes saved these stressed fish, if not too bad, through a lot of water changes, warm temps, aeration, and good food.
Angels are mostly carnivorous in the wild, actually they are pretty efficient predators of small insects, fish fry etc. The worms from your garden are a great food (also fresh and free!). Note that fresh, wild insects etc. also may have a lot vegetation etc. in their gut, so predators are actually getting a lot of vegetable nutrients that way.
I have kept fish for many (30?), going through stages of interests and thoughts. I have bred Angels in the past. At one time I had many test kits and used Amquel religiously. Now I have done away with all test kits. I do frequent water changes which I think is the most important thing in fishkeping, using a siphon which sucks the detritus out of the gravel while removing water. I sometimes do MAJOR water changes, removing about 3/4 of the tank water at one time. I refill directly from the tap (at the same temperature ass the tank) and the fish never seem stressed, always look happier afterwards. I almost never change my filter cartridges, and have two tanks with no filter at all (only airstones.....they are crystal clear and the fish healthy).
I currently have a 75 gallon tank with an adult oscar (from a baby) 1 5-year-old Angel, 2 3-year-old Angels, a 10+ year old Silver Dollar, A Pleco about 5-6 years old, and a Raphael catfish that I have had for about 23 (not a typo!!) years. This is a spotted Raphael: peaceful but nocturnal and not very active.
Do several water changes, maybe 20% a day for several days. Increase the temperature, at least temporarily, to close to 80 degrees F, and try some more live food: earthworms are great! Live mosquito larvae are great, hard to get at this time of year. Keep us updated!

Forgot to mention in my lengthy reply above that my 75 gallon also has two firemouth (the newest residents of about one month) and that I leave the lights (regular CW fluorescent bulbs, standard hood) on for 16 hours or more a day. The tank surface is covered with floating Water Sprite....I have to thin it out when I do water changes. I think these live and fast-growing plants do a lot towards removing nitrogen and keeping the water quality good.
I used to have them in all my tanks, although the one now houses a pair of blue crayfish which have eat ALL the plants. A trade-off.....

hello and thanks for posting! as of yet i had been sticking to frequent small water changes since i don't know if my pH fluctuates (still can't find a pH kit!!!!grrrrr). i would like to at least know...

well, these angels i received from my fave pet store in my old stomping grounds. they were locally bred. except for a kink in one pearls ventral(?) fin (filamentous kind) they have good finnage. had i noticed the kink i would have chosen another. gill covers good, not short. the water there may be a bit harder than mine (that is another long story on why i don't know! oh, it is here)

i have had them since october 3. i can't remember how long the one black had been behaving this way...if it always just sat there. i do remember, that the blacks were in one tank and the pearls in another. when i put them in mine, they stayed "segregated." each color swam with its own. then, the boss started bullying. this has stopped but maybe it doesn't matter. but even the boss has the best appetite still and ignores a lot. my long fin black seems to have a great appetite b/c it is always looking , but doesn't touch, though it does eat! seems to prefer eating from the bottom. i feed in late morning...and at night i put in one half sinking tablet for cories. that is why i think they should be more hungry. years ago, my angels basically went into feeding frenzies. then again, i had more hardy marbles.

they are coming to the glass now when they see me, sometimes clampy fin does but not usually. they are trying to break me down into digging for worms, i just know it!

one problem that happened...my heater. room temps were ok, they might have gotten chilled until i could replace it. then, when i did, it raised the temp from 72 to 80 overnight! i panicked! i believe this initiated the boss's behavior, actually. idid forget about htis detail. so, i slowly lowered the temp. perhaps not slow enough and they want warmer water. my 10 gal is still cycling and having problems getting the temp just right in it.

i was thinking maybe i needed to create shade with floating plants. it really isn't bright, though. sun does come in through a window just a bit.

congrats on your long timers! wow!
my pH MIGHT tell me a lot if i ever find out what it is.

ok, did a larger water chnge last night...8 gallons. THEN messed with that ancient filter for an hour before it finally ran. this morning? ha! i get up and the power had gone off...no filter operating. off to walmart to get the cheapest back up filter i could find. so, there is now a whisper internal filter until my aquaclear arrives in the mail.
this filter says to ahve the water below the outlet area. any experience with whisper internals? i don't want the waterfall effect. also, i can't cover my tank right with it in there, fyi. maybe i'll get a turtle :)

behavior remains the same...except i found where "someone" has been eating on my sword plant, all on one leaf.

more rambling....

my ten gallon is in the process of cycling. ihave used at least half of the water from my established tank. i have small amounts of ammonia and nitrite. i also have critters in the 10 gal (rotifers, i think). when it is finished cycling...what do you think- should i move the already stressed out clampy fin black or the yard boss?

Which ever two get along best leave in. The probelem is when you move a dominant fish out a lot of the time another one will step to take it's place.

adrea, thank you for reminding me of that. i am sure you are right. the problem is, the dominant one seems to be the only one not having problems. also, afraid of moving the lowest one thinking that would be the final straw...

i am very confused with these fish. all my parameters are ok, except for the mystery of what my pH is...i can only say it is all stress from the dominant fish and poor nutrition b/c they don't eat well. now, the other black has developed fungus on its very long fin extensions. this is very frustrating. i have kept fish for years before, including angels, yet i feel like i have absolutely no experience. even the black that acts the most stressed doesn't have fungus or any outward physical signs. the one that does is more active and "normal." i will add tht i have never had a veil tail or long finned angel before.

Is the "fungus" black, red or just a white"fluff"? If I remember correct fairy you have well water? Your pH may be fluctuating alot if that is so. This could cause stress. The water may come out of the tap acidic,

yes, it is white fluff on the fin extensions. i have city water. my pH test kit still hasn't come!!! i can certainly aerate it for a couple hours. i wll try that! thanks! fridays are my water change days. i finally rec'ed the sponge filter and i am running that in the established tank to colonize then move to the 10 gal.

could my problems ahve been caused by uneaten food? i had that oiliness on the water surface. when i would drop food in, it would break up. since the sponge filter is in there bubbling, andit won't sink, it has been breaking up the water surface. that ws last night when i put it in. this morning, there was no film on the water.

"I never had as many illnesses or deaths in a QT tank as in these past 3 years."---- that must mean something!

Well I just got back into this hobby roughly 3 years ago. I never had problems like this before. I think like any business, quality in the industry has dropped as well as ethical practices. The film is just built up protiens. In planted aquariums we try to keep low surface agitation to keep the CO2 in the water as long as possible. With your well water and low surface agitation you will defiantely get the film. You can try skimming a paper towel across the surface to remove it when it comes back. I find this too much work and just do more frequent PWC's. My film usually starts toward the end of the week after a PWC. If I go over a week the film comes back after the paper toweling over night.

i agree about the surface agitation, but it is just temporary. i am trying to colonize my sponge for the 10 gal. i still have ammonia levels in there (no fish, but used water from the 25).

i was actually going in there with a coffee filter to attempt just what you suggested...that is when i noticed the film was gone.

ok, the long fin black is improving on its own. i have done nothing different. i have been tempted ot take it out and dab on some fungal med. but haven't (also don't ahve any). its appetite has also improved. that leaves 2 to go.

finally received my pH test kit. looks likei should have just gotten the high range. it looks darker than the 7.6 on the color chart. the tap test looks the same color.

Is this an A.P. test kit? My high range pH does not have a color bar for 7.6 ppm, it starts at 7.4ppm then 7.8ppm, then .2ppm increments from there on.. The "regular" pH kit has 7.6 ppm as the highest measured for that test. Glad to here the angel is doing better. The white could just be new growth or regrowth from a damaged fin? If they are doing better by adding nothing I would just go with it.

no, definitely fungus or similar. i am thinking it is because they are always dragging on the bottom (even though my bottom dwellers have no issues to my knowledge). add to that, stress and the poor appetite/nutrition.

the pH test kit tht the lfs ordered for me is not an ap. trying to think what it is....hagen 6.0-7.6. now i see from looking up hagen low range test kit that there is a wide range! i also paid double the amount for the low range than on the site it see. then again, add in the shippping and it would be about the same.

Here is a link that might be useful: wish i knew about this one

did gw flip flop the link and name of link spaces? am i losing it? i am sure it is the latter.

update on tests results:
25gal with fish...dKH 7/8ppm ...kGH 9ppm (i ran out of blackwater extract so maybe that is why dKH raised a bit?)... nitrates 5, ammonia and nitrites 0

10 gal still cycling with no fish but with critters barely visible tothe naked eye....dKH 8ppm... dGH 11ppm (note difference b/t the 2 tanks live plants?) nitrates 5/6ppm...ammonia 0 ..nitrites have risen to 5 ppm. should i wait until the nitrites spike to 10 then level off before adding fish? or, do i need to add one since the ammonia is now 0 to keep the cycling going?

on another note, i removed the temp filter last night and set up the aquaclear (yaaay!). i left the filter cartridge in the tank from the temp to retain a bacterial culture (suggested on another forum...input on this?). on an even happier note though still undecided, last night was the first time i had seen "clampy fin" go for some food and actually take a bite!! one time, but better than none at all and it may have spit it out. it is stll more than it has done. hopefully, its appetite is improving- it wasn't hiding today but was at the top with the others at feeding. no interest, but it was up there. the smaller pearl also doesn't eat in my presence. what are they eating, diatoms? my plant?

If it was me. Take the tempy filter media (It was just a sponge right) and put it in the aqua clear vwater flow before what ever you are using as a biological media.Hope that made sense. Dont add fish until nitrite is at 0.0. What did you use for ammonia supply? If it is ammonium chloride, after the tank appears cycled spike the ammonia one more time to be sure. If parameters are in check 50% PWC and add fish.

i have a whisper carbon cartridge...the sponge is a filter i have in the tank trying to "seed" it for another tank. that has only been in there about a week. do you think the whisper carbon cartridge would still work in the aquaclear? i didn't really try a test run with it in there. i just assumed it wouldnt fit right.

here is the weird part: i didn't use an ammonia source of any kind (knowingly) when i set up the 10 gal. all i did was add tap water and a cumulative of @ 5 gallons of tank water from the 25 (which has 0 ammonia). i also added "stresszyme" which has no ammonia. there is an opinion that whatever was in the stresszyme "died" and created the ammonia. there is a small corner filter carbon cartridge in there that has set dry for over a year before placement- a freshflow, i think. hence, my confusion! oh, and my tap tests at no ammonia. i didn't test tap when i filled it, so maybe it did on that specific day?

clampy fin is DEAD and the smaller pearl is acting just like it was, except for the hiding. it is wasting and not eating...and it shows.

i got home from work last night and checked on the fish. there was clampy lying on the bottom but still alive. for lack of any other resources i moved it to the 10 gal and added amquel to drop the nitrites. i should have just euthanized but had nothing...and thought if i could just get it out of the stressed environment, too little too late,, it might pull through. stupid me.

after it ate the other day i had my hopes up. i forgot that animals tend to get better, seemingly, just before they crash. stupid me. i was hoping aggression had it on the bottom weak, but likely it succumbed to starving to death. in the 10 it was a bit restless, couldn't quite stay at the top. at first it did a spin but then was able to "stand" vertical actually. then, back to the bottom. since the spinning stopped i thought it would pull through and finally went to bed at 7 am. at noon when i got up, checked on it, its mouth was fully open, waved its fin one last time...then seemed dead.

my tank values in the community are the same as always:
dKH 7/8ppm ...dGH 9ppm ... nitrates 5, ammonia and nitrites 0 ...temp 76-78.

after removing the dead fish, i disinfected my net with san aqua. now what? my small pearlscale....am i to expect the other two to start this downward spiral, as well? the small pearlscale schools with the larger one. the larger one and my long fin black are acting well and have good appetites (knock on wood). their hiding behavior has improved, so i have come to the conclusion that the constant vibration from the old hob filter initiated this behavior.

the ONLY thing i did differently was friday night i added a piece of driftwood...after the prescribed simmering of 8 hours, then let stand in the hot water the rest of the day. when i returned from work i rinsed the wood and added it to the tank. it has not seeped any tannins (pot water was very dark) and none of the fish seemed bothered too much. also, my cories are as active as ever. i am used to the albinos active with an occassion rest period, but my pygmaeus ahs been very active....all this before the addition of the driftwood.

thanks for all the help and advice!

Any "browning" of the water from the driftwood will not do any harm to the fish. I think they actually like it. Salt (sodium chloride),any type sea, table iodized or non-iodized, kosher, water softener will make nitrite less toxic. I am a little confused, what aquarium has detectable nitrites, the fishless cycling one or the angel setup? I'll try to find a chart on the web for dosing of salt per ppm of nitrite and provide a link. As far as the fishless cycle, did you test your tap water for nitrites? You also need a constant source of ammonia to cycle the aquarium. If it is in the 2nd stage now (assuming because of nitrites presence) you need small doses of ammonia per day to "feed" the bacteria. Put the filter cartridge from the established aquarium in the Aqua-Clear next time it is due for changing or cut a small piece of it off and put it in the Aqua-clear basketbetween the foam block and whatever else you are using. Other good "seed" material from the established aquarium, a scoop of gravel, rocks or decor (you could always put it back later), filter "mud" ( the brown crud you wash out of the sponge). If you are using "seed" material from a planted aquarium it is not as "rich" in bacteria as a non-planted. A moderate to heavy planted has hardly any bacteria in the filter.

actually, i was hoping the wood would tannin it up a bit since i ran out of blackwater extract.

the 10 gal has the detectable nitrites. no fish...but i really wasn't trying fishless cycling but it seemed to happen that way. yousee, i was doing the cycling with aged water from the angel tank but failed to put in an aged filter. would rotifers, etc produce ammonia? they are present.

the aquaclear is on the 25gal. i also have a sponge filter in there to colonize then move to the 10 gal.

tap water had no nitrites. jsut in case i am getting myself confused, i will double check tonight. btw, ever try to shake a vial and write at the same time?

i consider my tank lightly planted...for lack of getting the plants i want yet and no tank to "quarantine" them in yet....that is under the works now, also (a second 10 gal). darn! i threw out the filter mud!

You can QT plants in a bucket or storage container, they dont need alot of heat. Change the water if it starts to smell or gets really cloudy. Add a little ferts per gallon of the container. Also, a old lamp with a compact fluorescent screw in type bulb (I use daylight bulbs , by lights of america found at wal-mart, 6500K, only $5 US or a 2-pak). You can use , ooops gotta go

You can use a little fish food to keep a constant ammonia source. Just a little fish food, don't spike it over 1.0 ppm if in act the nitrites are from the tank trying to cycle. Caution the roting fish ood will produce ammonia, along with a musty smell and cloudy water. A better source of ammonia is ammonium chloride, I cant find it locally anymore and on the web it is too $$$$. I am trying to see i a livestock supply store carries it. I think it is used as a supplement in feed. If the sponge of the filter you are trying to establish can fit in the aqua-clear basket somehow it will colonize quicker. What is used in the 10 gallon as a filter now?

"You can QT plants in a bucket or storage container"--- good to know, thanks! now where was that bucket...and light? actually i have that exact thing as a floor lamp right next to my 10gal. it was cheap and it worked for not tripping over stuff.

you know i wondered that about fish food. thanks again! and for the specifics on what to do.

my sponge is for up to a 30 gal tank "powered" by an airpump at the moment (to the likely detriment of my plants due to co2 loss...thus i have it turned down)...i have the pump output split on a gang valve. the other tubing goes to a ??? air powered carbon filter. i thought it was called a clearwater...anyway the casing is green, it comes in a couple diff sizes...small carbon filter inserts and an airstone goes inside it. i had it sitting around so i decided to use it, hoping the vents and surfaces could colonize a bit in the process.

a view on my angels cause of death at another site is internal worms...thus the not eating and starvation....i will ask if i can share their responses. that way, those here who may have read it can learn. that is, if it isn't against these rules...

Easier then fish food ( this method works but it is hard to control the ammonia and pwcs are necessary to keep the ammonia under 5 ppm) Find some "clear" ammonia. Usually it is in the grocery store next to the cleaning products (like you didn't know that" look at the ingredients if listed and make sure it says "ammonia and distilled water" or similar ( may say ammonium hydroxide and water, thats OK) It cant have any soaps (serfacants) or scents (lemon). Shake the bottle to be sure. If it has soaps in it it will foam. In a 10 gallon tank start with afew drops (and I mean drops) of ammonia. Let it mix in the water (use a large plastic serving spoon or easier run the filter and a powerhead/pump if you have one) after it has mixed well test the ammonia level ( you will need a reagent type test for this, the 2 part solution type, the 1 part solution will give skewed readings for this) The target is 2-5ppm. Add or dilute with fresh water to achieve this. Run the filter with any seed material you have. Check the ammonia levels daily until you see it start to drop. It can happen suddenly, depending on seed material you added and tap water chemistry. It may take a few weeks. When it starts to drop check for nitrites, if nitrites are detectable the second phase is starting. Keep adding ammonia (maintaining the 2-5ppm) until it starts to disappear over night. At this point check to see if nitrites have appeared or increased. If so just add a tiny bit of ammonia not enough to bring it over 1ppm. I usually add just a drop in the morning and one at night. Add some more seed material. Watch nitrites, they should spike then start to drop. Keep adding the ammount of ammonia that keeps it under 1 ppm or just a drop twice per day. When your nitrites get to .25ppm or below do a 50% -75% water change and it is safe to stock your fish.

Keep an eye on pH also durring this. The ammonia (cleaning type) will raise your pH slightly , perhaps up to .2 ppm at first, then have the opposite after a while, it may crash. Correct the low pH 6.6ppm or lower with a pinch of baking soda. If your pH spikes too high at first, over 8.2, try a different brand of ammonia. This just happened to me using "janitor" stregnth ammonia. It may have had a chleating agent, not sure.

"Usually it is in the grocery store next to the cleaning products (like you didn't know that" --- lol! you never know!!! i did find the epsom salts...and now added to my tank. it will be itnresting to see how my plants react, also.

thank yo for the instructions...i am going to save them!

hello again. regarding my angel that had the fungus....it seemed to be going away on its own. well, today i noticed that the long ventral fin is swinging, waiting to break off at the spot the fungus was at. i thought it was gone! i could just scream at myself for being stubborn. i read somewhere that if the rigid part was affected, it will not regenerate. is this true? will my fish forever have an injury deformity?

I have never had a problem with fins growing back unless it was a deep injury to the base of the fin from a bite or scrape on a rock. I am not sure what you mean by rigid part.

for lack of a better term, spine? the ventral fin, or trailing filamental ones...has some kind of a support spine right? once that breaks does it remain permanent?

i was tring to think of a way to devise a "cast"-lol....

I think it has a good chance to grow back. I netted an angel one time and it damaaged the fin. It grew back over time. Keep water parameters in check and it should be OK. I know people claim Melafix is a good healer for this type of "injury". The tea oilis proven healer for humans, as far as fish????. Either way it couldn't hurt. I never heard of the product doing any harm. The epsom salts will also help.

thanks for the morale boost! i used to have tea tree oil, but i know full strength is potent. i did pour some stress coat in. i am afraid of netting for fear of it further breaking off. so, straight to the water then! and, when i get my seemingly internal parasite issue taken care of, perhaps it will not have these issues anymore from a weakened immune system. if only those meds would get here..

saturday, my small pearl died..now i am down to two angels. ironically, my medication arrived saturday night. cross everything you can, please!!!! for my fishies!

Sometimes these things happen. It seems that you tried to keep the water parameters of those in the angel's natural environment. It is said that most fish can adapt to different water conditions, and that is true. I feel that when water parameters are close to that of a fishes natural environment, even though these are "farm" raised and not wild caught, the fish has a better chance of defense against disease and parasites that they normally would fight off on there own. Who knows? With that said, some of these trace elements in a bottle may cause problems????>> I am sure it is nothing you did wrong. I have noticed parasites in newer fish that come up even after a month in a QT tank. That is why I now leave them in QT for 2 months, 3 if I can. Maybe try a different supplier for replacements. I am considering just ordering from Live Aquaria.com , a division of drs foster smith. The delivery fee is a little steep, but if you order in bulk it is worth it. They have a 14 day, after delivery guarantee. It is an overnight Fedex delivery (explanation of high delivery cost, $30)as long as I can be home on the day of delivery it is worth it. Maybe it is worth it to check a site that offers advise that is specific to angels. I know there are a few, but i have never really checked into them enough for a reccomendation. Maybe start a new thread here to see if anyone has any ideas.

that is what is strnge. i have always trusted this pet store and went there for years. i nver had angels with worms before and no problems with fish from there. these angels htey had received from a local breeder. so, my thinking is they acquired the parasites in my tank, but how? if they had parasites all along, how did htey even grow to quarter size? no other fish were in the tanks with the angels an the store. pearls were in one tank and blacks in anthother...

Did you feed them any tubifex worms? They have been known to cause problems. Could be a diet thing. Sometimes you have to give them what they are being fed by the breeder/LFS and slowly ween(sp?) them off.

no tubifex worms...just flake until the food strike started...then i tried soem frozen. it's just weird! the pearl, the boss, had started the not eating thing, but has finally regained its appetite the day after the last dose of parasite guard by jungle.

so far so good. here is what i had suggested to me. since there were no other signs of disease (excluding the chronic fungus on one) scales fine, fins fine, no spots...just extremely thin from not eating and white poop (no longer anything after weeks of not eating)....internal parasites. so, i was supposed to raise the temp to @ 90 but was afraid to with the cories. i raised to @ 82. the tabs were dosed after a 30% water change. 2 days later, another 30% change and a second dose. repeat, with the third dose. my cory started scratching with the third dose and i hope that was just irritation from the meds.

now, we shall see....

Sorry I am no good at illness. The basic stuff like ICH and "velvet" (the Oo-whatever the hell parasite) I have had success. Sometimes when a fish has bloating o doesn't eat its hit or miss with epsom salts and temp. raising. I think the problem is disease symtoms are so similar sometimes I miss diagnoe or just get lucky. IME with fish illnesses if "home remedies" like epsoms salts, table salt, and raising temp. don't work the fish usually dies. I have had no luck with any medicaions I have used, maracyn 1 or 2. Never tried anything else. Good Luck.