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sans2014

Aglaonema rescue

Sans2014
9 years ago

I just got this off the discount rack at Loews. It has been
repotted, and I am waiting for the sick leaves to turn brown before cutting off.
Fred

Comments (168)

  • Russ1023 (central Fla)
    8 years ago

    Those look like new buds breaking, not roots. If this was my cutting, I would lay it sideways nestled down in the medium. This was Dr. Brown's favorite method of ag propagation, he recommended it be 3/4 down in the medium with 1/4 showing above it. I usually plant them halfway to 3/4. A 3 to 4 node cutting will often produce two plants, most of my cuttings are 2 to 3 nodes.

    Russ

  • laticauda
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    You don't think it would actually just make leaves with no roots do you? It's gotta have a way to communicate that. But it's like I told you before, for some reason aroids prefer to grow leaves and then roots when I only use the cane, I can't explain it. Aglaonema, Philodendron hederaceum, Monstera deliciosa, adansonii, Syngonium.
    Maybe it's just me or maybe people are basing it off water rooting and not substrate rooting and when they do the substrate method, they don't pay any attention to the order of things? Or I'm just weird and the plants pick up on it. Maybe it's electromagnetism or something.

    btw, once I took the levels off, I laid it sideways and it is currently that way.

  • Russ1023 (central Fla)
    8 years ago

    In my potting mediums, I see sideways-planted ag cane sections form roots before leaves, and vice-versa. I don't know what makes them decide to go one way or the other, they're smarter than I am for sure.

  • laticauda
    8 years ago

    "They" all have us wrapped around their little fingers. Apples came from Afghanistan, you know, and not Washington! Plants are geniuses. I hesitate to call them evil geniuses because I think like people, there are some good and some bad plants.

  • Sans2014
    Original Author
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    the last cutting still has no roots! and it is now the middle of August!


  • Russ1023 (central Fla)
    8 years ago

    I haven't a clue as to why it refuses to root, maybe try putting a little water-soluble fertilizer in the water. The leaves look okay, so I think all is well even without the roots.

    If you get tired of waiting, you could try potting it in a medium with peat moss. Dr Brown has said that ags need the acidity from peat in order to root. I'd recommend half peat moss and half perlite, keep it just moist. That said, I've rooted lots of ags without peat, even in pure perlite.

    Sans2014 thanked Russ1023 (central Fla)
  • Sans2014
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    I assume Miracle Grow is a good substitute for straight peat?

  • Harawlins
    8 years ago

    I know some people say not to do this, but you might try rooting it in plain water with a little rooting powder. I had a cutting of the same kind of plant that I tried to root in soil and, despite my best efforts, it simply would not root. After a month or so (it was still alive, but getting droopy), I took it out of the soil, made a new cut, dusted it with rooting hormone, and put it in a vase of water. I think it had roots after only a week or two. I have since planted it in soil and it is getting new growth.

    Sans2014 thanked Harawlins
  • laticauda
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    I have one like this too. But I cut the leaves off and did Russ's sideways in the substrate trick. Let's see what it looks like today.

    I don't think any of these are root buds, so I placed the non-popped bud down into the substrate. Hopefully we'll get some thing from this soon, Fred!

    maybe I need to move it from the north window to a more lit area?

  • laticauda
    8 years ago

    @Harawlins

    Can you pm me please? I think I might know you and maybe we worked together like....10 years ago. Unless you're too young to have been working ten years ago lol.

  • Sans2014
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    Harawlins, it has been in water since early spring ( or even before that), though I did not use root hormone on it, the other 2 rooted after a long time, but this one just will not. It even has Russ stumped!

  • Russ1023 (central Fla)
    8 years ago

    Laticauda, your cutting looks promising with the new plants showing. Even if there are no roots at the moment.

    Fred, your guess is as good as mine on your rootless cutting, Miracle Grow will be fine, if you have a rooting hormone as harawlins suggested you might dip it in that prior to planting. I've not tried the hormone with water, but if you're of a mind to try her method first, go for it. Keep me posted.

    Russ

    Sans2014 thanked Russ1023 (central Fla)
  • Sans2014
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    is there an expiration on rooting hormone?

  • laticauda
    8 years ago

    Probably is, but you can probably use it anyway. I don't know that they have actual statistics on how long they stay viable, especially considering the drastically different storage methods people use after purchasing the product. It's probably a pretty conservative date, at the least.

    I would still use it, but that's just me.

    Sans2014 thanked laticauda
  • Russ1023 (central Fla)
    8 years ago

    I agree with laticauda, if it's within a year of expiring I would think it's still good Fred. Give it a try, it certainly won't do any harm.


    Sans2014 thanked Russ1023 (central Fla)
  • petrushka (7b)
    8 years ago

    i had a cutting of thai ag with sev leaves in water close to 3 months before it produced a couple of roots. but it did produce them. i just read that seaweed makes rooting easier.

    i have just rooted begonia vine cutting which is supposed to be hard to water-root using Ohrstrom's maxicrop 1-0-4 that contains seaweed extract. i got it on recommendation for rooting orchids, but it is also used for soaking corms and bulbs prior to planting and rooting seedlings.

    i have rooting powder that is like a decade old and still works fine on everything.

    Sans2014 thanked petrushka (7b)
  • Sans2014
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    That is interesting because I have root tone that I don't even remember how old it is that I have been using (also don't know if it is doing anything either LOL) The cutting is trying to root it just is having a very hard time doing it. Russ mentioned that it is probably too cool this summer for it. The weather statistics say it has been an average year, but I tend to think it has been a cool summer here in PA. At least my part of PA. Where did you get the Ohrstrom's?

  • petrushka (7b)
    8 years ago

    mail order ;). amazon :).

    Sans2014 thanked petrushka (7b)
  • Russ1023 (central Fla)
    8 years ago

    Just stay with it Fred, it will eventually root. But certainly won't hurt if you try your rooting powder or petrushkas Ohrstom product. Or both. Personally I think any diluted water-soluble fertilizer would work, but many feel the seaweed and other organics are better. Whatever works, I always say.

    Cool temps would retard rooting but shouldn't keep it from rooting at some point. Keep up the good work.


    Sans2014 thanked Russ1023 (central Fla)
  • Sans2014
    Original Author
    8 years ago


    Sorry how blurry this is. The bottom photo shows a root forming lower left of the stem. Still too soon to pot it. It is also putting up a new leaf! It has been what a year? Amazing!

    Fred

  • Russ1023 (central Fla)
    8 years ago

    Yes, amazing Fred. You know, thinking about this, Dr. Brown has said that ags need an acid pH to root, which is why he recommended that peat be included in a rooting medium. I wonder if you put this cutting in a half peat, half perlite mix, maybe it would go ahead and root. You could put it in a plastic bag if you were concerned about low humidity.

    But since it seems to be on it's way to producing some roots, you could just keep it water and see how much longer it takes. It certainly won't want for moisture to keep the leaves hydrated if it's in water. Maybe a few drops of unsweet tea would provide the acidity.

    Russ

    Sans2014 thanked Russ1023 (central Fla)
  • blytheinspired
    8 years ago

    Just read through all of this as I JUST purchased what appears to be "Red Valentine" & "Siam Aurora" for FULL PRICE at Home Depot, which I never do...but they are so beautiful & the other AG's I have are so hardy I thought it was an amazing foolproof plan. Slightly nervous now to read the hybrids are more sensitive.

    My question is...I was intending on leaving them in their store container & medium until spring (I read that was best)...but typically repot in about 50/50 MG potting soil & perlite. Should I do that now, given what I've read here, or wait? And if repot now, should I stick with same size pot or increase size?

    Thank you!

    The pic is dark...sorry.

  • Russ1023 (central Fla)
    8 years ago

    I'm sorry it took so long to post, maybe too late with my views on repotting.

    Personally I think it's safer this time of year to leave them in the pots they're in rather than repot. That is unless they're way bigger than they should be for the size of pot. In this case you could move up one pot size, but keep the rootball intact if you can and just fill in around the edges with new mix. These do look like Red Valentine and Siam Aurora as you suspected.

    How are they doing so far? The Thai hybrids are only a little pickier than the usual aglaonema, but biggest challenge might be the winter season that they're going into right now.

    Russ

  • blytheinspired
    8 years ago

    Thanks! I haven't repotted. The more I read on this site about "gritty" mixes or better types of mixes for plants the more I want to overhaul my houseplants, which is too large an undertaking for winter in MN.

    Any thoughts on these or AG's in general in the gritty mix talked about so much on GardenWeb?

    They are both still doing very well. I haven't had to water since buying them as they both were well-watered. Red Valentine is in front of my window & Siam Aurora a few feet back. They appear to be acclimating well as of now.

  • Russ1023 (central Fla)
    8 years ago

    Wow, Minnesota. Cold! Always wanted to visit there, especially the Canadian Boundary Waters for paddling my canoe. But a shoulder and back limit that these days.

    Ags will do very well in any of the light, professional peat-based mixes on the market. Many growers add extra perlite to improve the drainage, and I agree especially if one tends to overwater or if growing outside where they might get extra watering from rains. I'm not sure what's been said about 'gritty' mixes for ags, I wouldn't add sand, pebbles or any of the materials for cacti like pumice or lava rock. Ags would grow in it but it's hardly necessary. Ags aren't very picky about what their roots are in, I'm often amazed at the massive root systems cuttings develop when I propagate them in nothing but coarse perlite. They could live indefinitely in it as long as they were fertilized, altho pH might be an issue at some point. They also can live long-term in water with an occasional dose of liquid fertilizer. Do not use a heavy, dirt/soil-based so-called 'potting mix', this is only good for filling in holes in the yard. Hopefully this isn't what you're presently using.

    Which brings me to... what is the potting mix you're using? If it's light, peat-based and you're not having problems, it's fine.

    When I first started growing tropicals, seemingly centuries ago, I exclusively used a basic soilless mix touted in those days by Elvin McDonald and horticultural departments of University of California and Cornell Univ. This was one or two parts peat moss, 1 coarse perlite and 1 vermiculite. I've used both coarse and fine vermiculite and I like either one. One of these universities promoted peat moss and vermiculite only, but I prefer adding the perlite. I still use this mix for seedlings, propagation, and special plants since it's nearly sterile, but it will need to be watered more often than a mix with composted bark or other materials. Amending one of the peat-based professional mixes makes things easier, almost all of them have forest products added like composted pine bark which adds drainage and water-holding capacity.

    Keep in touch and Happy Thanksgiving to all here,

    Russ

  • cliss
    8 years ago

    I grow all of my Ags in gritty mixes or hydroculture. My general observation for Ags in the standard "Al's Mix" is that, depending on how much light, heat, and air movement you have, you might need to water twice a week during the summer, and also for a new transplant until the fine roots have penetrated the mix. I have one at work that I have to water twice a week year 'round because there's enough air movement to dry a gritty mix pretty quickly. I've recently started experimenting with a slightly "wetter" gritty mix for tropicals to reduce watering frequency -- three parts turface, two parts bark, two parts grit. It looks promising so far but I'm withholding judgement until I've seen them through an entire summer in the mix.

    FWIW, despite claims to the contrary, you CAN overwater in a gritty mix -- I've lost a few tropicals in gritty mix by rotting them out and have almost lost a couple of Ags that way by continuing to water them twice a week too far into the Autumn. I don't regret shifting to a gritty mix but I did find "re-learning how to water" a bit trickier than I expected -- in fact I'm still figuring things out some four years or so in.

  • Russ1023 (central Fla)
    8 years ago

    Cliss, I have almost sworn off using Turface in any of my mixes, for succulents in particular. For me, it holds too much water and makes determining when to water very difficult. I've rotted many a sansevieria with experimental mixes containing Turface.

    What is the grit you're using, granite chicken grit?

    Interesting potting mix recipe, and quite a departure from the usual stuff in which tropicals are grown. The great aglaonema explorer, hybridizer and author Dr, B. Frank Brown advocated using peat moss for aglaonemas partially for the acid pH it provides. But I think the bark in your mix would have the same reaction. I'm always experimenting with different materials for potting soils and I'll give your mix recipe a try since you've mentioned it here.

    As I said, pure perlite will grow excellent aglaonemas, philodendrons, dieffenbachias, etc, but I've also seen them grown in pure peat moss, peat and sand, peat and bark, bark and sand, pure coir, and all manner of materials and proportions. To my mind, aroids really are adaptable plants and aren't too picky about the materials if the mix drains fairly well.

    I guess the main thing is what works for the individual, and when you find that magic mix, stick with it.

    Thanks for chiming in here with your thoughts and experiences,

    Russ

  • Russ1023 (central Fla)
    8 years ago

    I did a search and found Al's information on his soil mixes and his rationale for the ingredients. Interesting reading, his main goal seems to be longevity of the mix. Something to think about.

    Thanks!

    Russ

  • aruzinsky
    8 years ago

    What do the self pollinated offspring of these red aglaonemias look like?

  • Russ1023 (central Fla)
    8 years ago

    Since these are hybrids with mixed genetics, I would think they'd be similar to the parent plant but with some variations possible among seedlings. I don't think they'd be wildly different but then I'm not an expert in this area.

    Hopefully they wouldn't regress back toward the species A. rotundum if it's in the gene pool, as it is VERY difficult to grow.

    Do you have seeds being formed or planted?? If so, be sure to keep us informed on progress. Pictures! Which red ag do you have, if any?

    Russ

  • aruzinsky
    8 years ago

    I have only one aglaonema purchased last Friday from Home Depot for $12.95 and grown by Costa Farms. The label just says "red aglaonema" but from the pictures at http://www.costafarms.com/plants/red-aglaonema, I suspect it is Anyanmanee.

    If it's a chimera, the offspring will probably be less variegated than the parent.

  • Russ1023 (central Fla)
    8 years ago

    Aruzinsky, Anyanmanee may well be the correct, official name for this aglaonema since I believe it's a Thai hybrid. But it's also being marketed by many other names including your Red Aglaonema, Siam Aurora, and a few others.

    Interesting you brought up the 'chimera' word, I've seen this used regarding certain variegated sansevierias, but never associated with aglaonemas. What else do you know about this?

    Thanks, Russ

  • aruzinsky
    8 years ago

    A chimera is an organism composed of a semi-homogeneous mixture of cells with two distinct gene types. The most outstanding examples are human chimeras. From a practical point of view, there are two kinds of plant chimeras, stable and unstable. In the unstable case, one genetic type of cells can outgrow the other, causing the plant to lose its chimerism along with any resulting variegation. Canna 'Pink Sunburst' is a stable variegated chimera that easily produces seeds, Half of the offspring are solid green and half are solid bronze, all with flowers like the parent's.

  • Sans2014
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    This little guy should now finally be ready for dirt!

  • Sans2014
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    The other guy is doing fine by all appearances.


  • Sans2014
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    I was thinking half perlite and half MG, unless you recommend otherwise.

  • Russ1023 (central Fla)
    7 years ago

    Fred, that would be a good starter mix for the little ag. I wish I could get a semi truck full of Miracle Gro for cheap, it sure is good stuff. Keep me posted on how it's going.

    Russ

    Sans2014 thanked Russ1023 (central Fla)
  • atthetopofmygame
    6 years ago

    Hello. Can you replant just the stem from these? I have one that fell off the table, and the plant broke at the stem. I don't want to throw it out, so I just stuck it back in the soil and I am hoping it will regrow from that. The plant was doing very well before it fell. Any suggestions?

  • Tiffany, purpleinopp Z8b Opp, AL
    6 years ago

    Giving it a chance to take root sounds more promising than throwing it away. There are no guarantees but Ags are known to take root easily from cuttings. You have every reason to hope yours does too.

  • Russ1023 (central Fla)
    6 years ago

    Atthetop, winter isn't a good time to try rooting in soil. You might check the cutting daily, if leaves turn yellow and the stem turns 'rubbery' from loss of moisture, simply put it in water in a bright place until spring. If there are leaves on the bottom half of the cutting, take them off and put the stem in water up to about half of it's length. It should produce roots and will be fine until warmer weather.

    Do you know which aglaonema you have? If you're interested in knowing, post a pic here and we can try to identify it.

    Good luck, Russ


  • Debra (6a) West Ma.
    6 years ago

    Cutlass Ag

    One of the Silver's



  • Russ / Central Fla Z9b
    6 years ago

    Debra, your first pic looks like my Gem Series #5, commercially called Sapphire Suzanne. The silver one is Silver Bay, easy to grow.

    Cutlass is a cool one with its unusually narrow leaves, obviously influenced by the species stenophyllum in its heritage.

    You're growing these very well!

    Russ

  • Debra (6a) West Ma.
    6 years ago

    Thank you so much Russ! I always depend on your knowledge..

    I have one more that has pink spots on dark green leaves. slow grower.

  • Russ / Central Fla Z9b
    6 years ago

    Send a pic Debra, might be Pink Dalmation but there are a few others with pink spots. These are some of the so-called Thai hybrids.

    Russ


  • Debra (6a) West Ma.
    6 years ago

    It's a flavonian? not sure of spelling..

  • Russ / Central Fla Z9b
    6 years ago

    Hi Debra, very nice color on that ag. The name is Favonian, like first part of 'favor', a more common name for this ag is Pink Valentine. Name depends on who you buy it from, unfortunately most ags have multiple names.

    You should collect more ags, you grow them well.

    Russ

  • Debra (6a) West Ma.
    6 years ago

    I Love them! just like you. This one is about 3 yrs. old, slow grower.

    Is there a good online store that sells them as I'm disabled & it's hard to get out at times.

  • Russ / Central Fla Z9b
    6 years ago

    Debra, I honestly can't vouch for any ag sources. Over the years I've bought a few on eBay thru a friend who is more familiar with that process. I've seen common and rare ags on eBay.

    I usually have extra propagations, and could send you some for postage this summer if you wish. Contact at me at bluesea14808@yahoo.com and I'll send you my list.

    Russ



  • Debra (6a) West Ma.
    6 years ago

    Thank you Thank you!! mighty generous of you!

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