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A. titanum during winter

Posted by houstonpat 9a (My Page) on
Sat, Oct 20, 07 at 19:09

Greetings aroidians,
After picking up a titanum last fall (couldn't pass at $14.95) I overwintered it in my make-shift temporary greenhouse. Has anyone tried overwintering them indoors? Right now it has a cluster of 6 leaf stalks; petioles? about 15" tall.


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: A. titanum during winter

Many aroid growers who specialize in Amorphophallus species simply remove the plant from the soil entirely during the winter. Since it is now dormant, no harm is done. They often wrap the Amorphophallus in damp burlap and store it in a cool (not cold) place without light. Next spring, either repot or replant it depending on where you are.

There is a discussion group called Aroid l (L) where large numbers of the members discuss topics exactly like this. Some of the world's top Amorphophallus botanists are a part of that group and freely answer questions. Look up Aroid l on the internet and join the discussions. Promise, you will learn a bunch! You do not have to join IAS to join the forum.

You should be aware, eventually your dormant plant will weigh 70 to 80 pounds! Get a big pot!

Here is a link that might be useful: International Aroid Society Aroid l


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RE: A. titanum during winter

  • Posted by bihai zone 9 (My Page) on
    Sat, Oct 20, 07 at 22:04

Its entirely possible to keep anthuriums indoors over the short, mild winter you have in Houston. You can probably move them in and out at will. I have almost the exact same winter conditions as you and I keep mine on th eporch for a good portion of winter, bringing them in just inside the door only when it gets below 50, and then back out. The rest I keep in a heated greenhouse. They shouldn't go dormant on you at all. I have a Titanum in the greenhouse, and they do get huge.


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RE: A. titanum during winter

According to the botanists at Fairchild Tropical Botanic Garden in Miami, A. titanum always goes dormant. They have quite a few in their collection and not one was on display just one month ago. I asked the curator and was told all were now dormant. Only the enormous pots were in the display area. It is true you can leave them out in your climate unless it is going to get really cold. Just don't water them much, if at all, during the winter. Again, there are some of the best Amorphophallus people in the world on the Aroid l discussion group including a number of botanical garden curators. These species are discussed almost weekly.


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Amorphophallus titanum and dormancy

I spent much of the night doing research on this topic. I received responses from several experts and am currently working on a more complete explanation of whether or not Amorphophallus titanum does, or does not, goes dormant. There is some debate among growers on this subject, however I must always yield to the opinion of those who have established their expertise on such subjects. This is a direct quote from botanist Peter Boyce in Singapore regarding whether or not A. titanum does or does not go dormant, "This is nonsense; the area that titanum grows wild is subject to a marked monsoonal climate and during the dry phase the plants are dormant and leafless for an extended period; at this time the temperature is in the mid-high 30sC (mid-high 90s F). Furthermore, the temperature would never - even on a cold night in the height of the monsoon - ever drop below the low 20sC (c. 70 F)."

Obviously, since Pete often works in the field with these plants and observes them in the wild, I have to accept his opinion over all others. And Pete says Amorphophallus titanum does in fact naturally go dormant.

I will at a later time post some of the information I have been able to collect with some opinions to the contrary.


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RE: A. titanum during winter

  • Posted by bihai zone 9 (My Page) on
    Sun, Oct 21, 07 at 11:27

I'm sorry, I misread your post, Houston Pat. I was thinking ANTHURIUM titanum, not Amorphophallus titanum! Sorry!


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RE: A. titanum during winter

This may be a confusion of which genus is being discussed. BUT, there is no such plant as Anthurium titanum. You can check either of the major plant name data bases, TROPICOS or the International Plant Names Index. The correct name is Anthurium titanium (with an i) if we are discussing an Anthurium. A. titanum is Amorphophallus titanum which grows from a corm. Anthurium titanium is an epiphyte. Very different plants. Perhaps the original poster will clarify which genus they are asking about?

Here is a link that might be useful: TROPICOS


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RE: A. titanum during winter

Well, I am not one of the experts that exoticrainforest is talking about, but good ol' experience I have.....even if it is only 3 years worth of experience with this species. having said that.....they go dormant when they darn well want to in typical culture.....I have some dormant now I have some growing now (I have 13 of them) and I even have a couple just re-emerging from dormancy. These are not like konjac or bulbifer, or longituberosus, or most any other species that we all have and grow by the hundreds.....titanum will grow for 6 months to a year and then go dormant for anywhere from 4 weeks to 4 months in my experiecne....4 months is quite long for me, but it has happened. They should never be stored dry like other species....always in their pots and give water even when dormant to keep them from becoming bone dry.....in my potting mix I water maybe once every couple of weeks when dormant and maybe once every 5 days when in growth.....I grow them in front of a window and in my zone they will likely never get that big.....after 3 years I have one that is maybe 3 feet tall and the tuber is maybe 4-5 inches in diameter....not the right climate, but I am having fun fiddling with them.....this might actually be one of the easiest species I have ever personally tried to grow (maybe 50 species for me). Hope that helps :o) Dan


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RE: A. titanum during winter

Very good observations. I've never tried to grow this species since I know it can outgrow my tropical atrium. I've already had to remove eight plants that were not supposed to exceed 17 feet (the max height of the building), but they did! On the discussions on Aroid l I recall this species can easily take 10 years to mature so you may still have to wait awhile for the big growth spurt. But once it comes, you'll need a bigger house! These can easily hit 25 feet! I'm still receiving information on the species from some of the experts so I want to learn as much as possible before making any further comments. And I sure can't make any observations like yours'. I've never tried to grow one! I just know what I read!

I'd still like to know exactly what genus the original post was regarding.


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RE: A. titanum during winter

Thanks for sharing your experience with Titanum Dan.

I was able to purchase one this summer, and I cannot believe how easy it is to grow.

I just keep it in a sunny, warm window and plan to place it on a heat pad if it gets too cold.

I have eased up on the fertilizing a little since I brought it in, but other than that nothing has changed other than the slightly diminished light levels indoors.

John


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RE: A. titanum during winter

Wow! great discussion on Amorphophallus titanum. After reading all the great input I will endeavor, as before, to keep it as warm as possible, and when cooler tend to keep it drier but not bone dry. Many thanks Dan et all for your input and discussion. Patrick


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RE: A. titanum during winter

And thank you Patrick for the clarification of which genus and species you are growing. By the way, you got a great price!


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RE: A. titanum during winter

I'm in Galveston. Mine is in a pot in the front yard. It never gets moved. It has increased about 5X what it was when I bought it 2 years ago. It gets wet when it rains. Last year it sprouted a leaf in February. I may repot it this spring. I'm a little warmer than you. Stayed out all last winter as I had surgery & didn't move a thing. Sprouted up again in April maybe?
Tally HO!


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RE: A. titanum during winter

Chill guys.
Beachplant, I got mine at Another-Place-in-time in the heights. Eddie at the Cockrell buterfly center has two up on the roof of the parking garage, and the arboretum up by intercontental has a fairly large one planted in a raised bed outside (I think they dig it up in the winter)


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RE: A. titanum during winter

I'd love for those of you who are so successful in growing A. titanum to tell me how to do it. I have one that I've been trying to grow for nearly 3 years and all it has ever produced is one little leaf. The leaf lasts a few months, then dies away. The tuber or corm has never gotten any larger than a marble. How are these supposed to be grown? I have not had trouble with any other Amorphs; in fact, some of them have grown so well they have broken their pots with corm growth.

Please Help!

LariAnn


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RE: A. titanum during winter

Good idea lariann. How bout a summary of successfull techniques, types of soils, water, fertilizer. I know the International Aroid Society has some info.


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RE: A. titanum during winter

Hi hustonpat,

could you post a picture (maybe in the gallery or photobucket)?
For titanum it is not common to have 6 petitoles at one time; from the pattern of a 15" plant, it should be possible to ID it as a true titanum.

Best,
Bernhard.


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RE: A. titanum during winter

Sorry,
I meant "houston", of course... ;-)


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RE: A. titanum during winter

wink wink nudge nudge, LOL


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RE: A. titanum during winter

Good thread so I'll bring it back up. After seven years I finally had to move mine to a bigger pot.


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RE: A. titanum during winter

  • Posted by RobFNQ Tropical Far North Q (My Page) on
    Sat, Aug 2, 14 at 7:11

I'm a bit of a newbie with any of the Amorphophallus.

I've been growing an A. titanum seedling that I purchased from a dealer down on the Gold Coast last March. The plant produced a second leaf two months ago that is about three times the size of the leaf that was on it when purchased. Recently (in the last two weeks) this leaf has developed a 'yellowing' spreading from the centre vain. Is this a sign of beginning dormancy or do I have some other problem? I can't detect any obvious insect presence.

Here's a photo:


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RE: A. titanum during winter

Looks like your plant is going into dormancy, quite normal. Whereabouts are you in FNQ?

What I've found with seedlings is that they grow continuously for the first few years, often producing a second petiole, and sometimes even a third, simultaneously. After a few years they go into the cycle of one years growth and then one year of dormancy but with only a single petiole. Yours might be going into that stage if it hasn't another petiole still going. When I say petiole I mean the whole leaf. The structure coming up out of the ground is a single leaf. Some people mistakenly think the leaflets are the leaves.


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RE: A. titanum during winter

tropicbreezent,

Thanks for the quick response.

I'm just inland from Cairns up on the Atherton Tablelands. Are you up around Darwin?

I'm hoping it is domancy, but what I find strange is that the entire "new" yellowing petiole has only been up for around two months, the original petiole (about one third the size of the "new" petiole) is still green and shows almost no yellowing. Also, the plant is producing another bloody leaf spike!

We do get the occasional light frost on the Tablelands this time of year, but my titanum has had the luxury of being inside the house and on a heating pad when the temps drop anywhere below 20C. I was thinking possible sun damage from sitting in my bushhouse under 30% shade cloth, but I hear that many folks give their titanum full sun without probs.

I guess I'll just have to wait and see. I've been treating this thing like a delicate bub since I got it last March. I reckon me missus' thinks I've gone a bit mad.


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RE: A. titanum during winter

our man tropic has helped me many times at understanding how to grow many tropical plants.. :)
i wish i was in more of a "tropical" or even more semi tropical location..alas.. sigh..
my smallest titanum..corm is about 2 inches ( 5 cm) its been thru growth cycles twice last year.. just went dormant
about month and half ago..always keep them potted..and while dormant..slightly moist..i dont fertilize until i see petiole up above potting mix.. but.of course curious as i am..i unpotted it to check on it..and what do i see.. 3 petiole shoots comming up..1 in center..2 from the sides..
:) these are facinating plants!!
good luck to ya..keep us posted how its doing...


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RE: A. titanum during winter

lomodor,

I've been following this forum since I first obtained a titanum. There are some excellent comments and photos posted by all concerned.

My original interest in the plant was triggered by catching a titanum in full flower down at the Cairns Botanical Gardens. What really impressed me the most was the amazing single leaf that A. titanum produces in its mature stage. I just hope I can pull mine through to that point.

Although I actually live in the tropical belt of Oz, our altitude up on the Atherton Tablelands results in some rather colder, drier winters then those experienced down along the Coral Sea Coast. This is an excellent situation when summer rolls around and the temperature and humidity becomes oppressive along the coast, but definitely a disadvantage in the winter months for anyone trying to successfully grow a titanum.


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RE: A. titanum during winter

Finally did it! Decided to take the plunge and get the titanum leaf cuttings going. Although it hasn't warmed up as much as I'd have liked, the leaflets aren't getting any younger. Last time I did it the older leaflet rotted, only the young one is still going strong.

Took 3 leaflets off the one plant. Will possibly set it back a bit as the plant is still young, but hoping it's on its annual cycle and will have plenty of time to recover. They're in sphagnum like the first one.


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RE: A. titanum during winter

This is the original cutting. The leaflet looks a bit mottley but still going. The little tuber continues to grow.


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RE: A. titanum during winter

I thought about leaflet cuttings myself as a form of "insurance" in case my original plant cacked it. Instead I opted for buying five seeds from Louis at Winnipesaukee Orchids. An excellent bloke to deal with. Louis was quick with the email replies and the seeds. To my amazement, I had no problems with Oz customs. Louis actually sent me 8 seeds of which seven successfully germinated. His packing method was really excellent for the overseas postal trip. Even with the exceptionally cold, wet winter weather we're experiencing, all seven are still doing well.

I'd be interested to see how fast your leaf cuttings produce a tuber.


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RE: A. titanum during winter

I got my seedlings from them but they sent them with soil. I couldn't believe it when I got the letter from AQIS (quarantine) saying the package was being destroyed. For people claiming to have shipped seed around the world to include soil was amazing. I rang AQIS and pleaded with them. Guess they didn't like the sound of a grown man crying, even over the phone, LOL. So they scrubbed the seeds down and treated them. Only one failed to germinate. Unfortunately while I was away the auto irrigation played up and I lost all but 2 of the seedlings. Just happy now not having to wait for flowering/seeding to get more plants. Once I get a few more estabished some will go inground in the garden to see how they cope. This is the small tuber back in June.


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RE: A. titanum during winter

i have several corms..and seedlings from lou too..
wonderful guy,great plants!
tropic..u r inspinring me to do leaf cuttings this yr..
AHHHH..LOL.. i dont really need/ or want more titanums..
i think 11 is plenty..:)..
i am going to do cuttings off my 2 hewettii.. though.. ya..
only 2 hewettii..whats up with that??? LOL
i am going to use spaghnum moss too. great idea..wish i had used it when i did titanum cuttings last yr..
were headed to end of summer here..but nites sure are
coolish.. mid/low 60sF some nites..:( im not ready to haul everything insided yet..


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RE: A. titanum during winter

Don't blame me for leading you astray, I'm not responsible for your addictions, LOL. Only 2 hewettii! You are getting slack. Or should I say, going into remission?

I was surprised at how well the cutting did in the sphagnum. Noticed a couple of months back that it was completely soggy as the auto irrigation hits it twice a day. Decided to leave it. Even through the cold nights the last 2 months it's still soggy and still growing. I think the sphagnum allows enough air in. That wet in soil probably wouldn't work.


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RE: A. titanum during winter

No problems with AQIS and my seeds, but they were cleaned of any soil and packed with vermiculite.

I do like your cutting idea, especially the use of straight sphagnum. Several references have mentioned that sphagnum is far superior for rooting cuttings then any soil mix. Although, one bloke does reckon that some kiwi sphagnum can contain nematodes(?).

Thanks for the hints. Now to just get some decent leaf material for cuttings and warmer weather!


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RE: A. titanum during winter

Go for the younger leaflets, I found the older one persisted for a while but then rotted.

There's something like 20,000 species of nematode, so guess they're just about everywhere.

Yes, winter is trying to hang on. Days have been okay, up to the mid 30s C, but the nights are still too cold for my liking.


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RE: A. titanum during winter

u r headed for summer..were headed out of it..
sigh..wish was other way around for me.. alas..
what i get for living in a 4 season climate..
i just hope summer stretches out into late sept..
or im gonna be haulin in alot of plants..


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RE: A. titanum during winter

We're suppose to be in our "dry" season right now, but we keep getting steady all day drizzle (no bloody sun!). Oh well, an old timer once told me when we moved up here back in the 70s that: "It rains nine months of the year and THEN the 'wet' season starts."

If we get much more of this weather I'll have to put my titanums under lights!

"tropicbreezent": Would you know of a source for either tubers or seed of our native Amorphophallus galbra. The plant is suppose to be found here in the lower part of Cape York, but I haven't had any luck locating it. I've heard it is more common up in N.T.

Also, anybody growing an Anchomanes or the African equivalent of Amorphophallus. I scored some seed of A. difformis several months ago and even though they were somewhat immature, I got excellent germination.


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RE: A. titanum during winter

When I was a young fella I lived in Yorkeys Knob for a while. There used to be this old bloke who'd come down from the Tablelands during the dry season to lay on the concrete in the sun. I think he said it helped his rheumatism or arthritis or something. He always said it was cold and cloudy up there but he didn't like the lowlands in the build-up or wet season. I really like the Tablelands and have covered most of them over the years, but not keen on them in the cold weather. Some of my work mates have bought properties there to eventually retire, saying they want to get away from the heat. In that general area, Cooktown would be my favourite. Wet but not too wet. Borderline not too cold. And not too crowded. Here we have hot all year but half the year heavy rain, the other half totally dry. Wouldn't mind rain over 8 months instead of 6, but it doesn't work that way.

A. galbra is the first Amorph I ever saw. Camped out bush by a monsoon forest in the build-up and was intrigued to see all these flowers. No strong scent either. Later I found A. paeoniifolius were more common. But yes, there's lots around out bush. Remind me around October/November and I can collect some seed for you. They seed far more readily than paeoniifolius. No one seems to sell them, guess no one really knows what they are.

I actually "found" some Anchomanes difformis seeds in Cairns a few years back. They germinated well and I've got a number of them growing around the place. I like the look of them.


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RE: A. titanum during winter

tropicbreezent, I'll definitely take you up on that offer of A. galbra seed when it's convenient for you. Is there anything you can use from around here (besides a cold tinny -grin-)?

It seems the Queensland herbarium has a listing for a collected A. galbra specimen in a patch of scrub up at Ellis Beach, but a two hour search only turned up a couple of "look alike" native bat plants (no flowers). Cairns Botanical Gardens has a few very small A. galbra specimens in their "Gondwanaland" section, and some fantastic A. paeonifolius specimens, but other then that the only thing I've seen are online photos. What's really amazing is that most of those A. galbra photos I've seen are from North American growers!!!

Strangely enough, the sun decided to come out today. I immediately dragged out my small collection of titanums and difformis for some much needed natural rays. In the below photo one of the difformis seedlings appears at the base of the larger pot of titanums.

Cooktown would be excellent, but it is rapidly becoming a "trendy," up market area as the Port Douglas "white shoe boys" look further north for real estate to develope. The fishing is excellent and it is cooler then most coastal areas up this way, but the almost constant winds are better suited for kite surfers.


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RE: A. titanum during winter

Your plants look great, don't look the least bit stressed by the weather. I'm putting up a new thread on A. galbra to not get it mixed up in this A. titanum one.

Are you trying to disillusion me about Cooktown? I was thinking out of town on the south side but near the coast. To the north is all indigenous land. There's a lot of vacant land in town, but even Cooktown is too much "town" for me. Looks like the place never really picked up after the gold rush era. I always check the weather through the area and it seems Cooktown is nearly always a bit warmer than Cairns. Just looked up the average minimums for these past 3 (winter) months:
Cooktown 19.4, 17.2 , 20.2C
Cairns 19.0, 15.9, 18.7C

Years ago I used to do a lot of wind surfing, but here the water's got a few too many sharp teeth. Anyway there's no chance of me making a move over there. I'm still a long way off from finishing what I've started here.


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RE: A. titanum during winter

Nice A. galbra photos and in their native environment too! Thanks for starting the new thread.

Cooktown is still a beautiful place. The Mulligan Highway is now bitumen all the way to Cooktown; hence the interest by property developers. I haven't spent a lot of time on the coast south of town except for a day trip of kite flying out at Archer's Point. I'm not a kite surfer, but I experienced my first unplanned lift off at Acher's with only a three metre foil. A little too much wind for an amateur!


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RE: A. titanum during winter

One other question I'd like to throw out concerning A. titanum: How much sunlight do you expose your plants to? When inside and in a north facing window I'm giving them full sun. When out in the bush house they are under 30 percent shade cloth. Of course this is our tropical winter sun at present. I read references that range from full sun to deep shade.

How do you determine the right amount of light exposure as far as leaf appearance goes?


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RE: A. titanum during winter

My larger titanum has been around to a few different positions due to a number of unfortunate circumstances. But the latest was getting a lot of sun in the morning along with dry winds. By the time I moved it the damage had been done, the leaflets looked bad. Instead of growing for its usual 12 months it went dormant after about 4 months. Where I've moved it to now it'll get filtered sun through a fairly high tree canopy. So the light is very bright, but not full strength sun.

I just noticed the other day the larger titanum has started to emerge, probably about 2 weeks earlier than previously. The shoots looks larger than previous years but I don't think it could be a flower.


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RE: A. titanum during winter

jealous of u all down under.. ??i guess australia has strict laws on non auzzies owning land??
your larger titanum petiole looks good..
i just repotted my 9" ( 23cm ) titanum..when i took it out of
last growing seasons potting mix .i did use spaghnum moss for between potting up.. and it responded really well..!! :)
i probably give my titanums more sun than they should get.. we dont get the tropical sun u all have.. june/july we have overhead sun.. last yr..i had 2 largest titanums in way to much sun.. backed off this yr.. last yr..both big ones got sunburned on petiole..:( my bad.. didnt seem to poorly affect the growing of the plants though..
this yr..its been a crappy yr for tropicals outside..
temps just didnt stay up very long..and nites have chilled alot now.. mid 60sF now.. :( im hoping they hold here into mid sept at least.. even my big saba,ensete nanners didnt appreciate the coolish nites..


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RE: A. titanum during winter

Hmmmmm... I think I might be giving my titanums a bit too much sun. I'm still wondering if that that leaf "yellowing" in a previous photo might be a form of leaf burn. It didn't progress any further and the leaf is still rigid and viable. Once summer hits I'll probably transfer the titanums (in their pots) to one of the rainforest plots on my property. There are a couple of excellent spots that get good mottled sunshine for a large portion of the day.

It's interesting to note that in this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sMMWylnqlY
the bloke is finding mature and flowering examples of A. titanum in open, cleared rainforest.

lomodor, I doubt Oz ownership laws are that strict. We've been floggin' this country for years to anybody with a pocket full of kanga (cash) and a frontend loader.

What's the technique with using sphagnum moss for "between potting up." I'm not familiar with this.


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RE: A. titanum during winter

i search tropical property off and on..australia is one place i would enjoy living.. so i gotta get a front end loader too huh?? :) LOL can do..
ya..ive not had super good luck with leaf cuttings,or seed sprouting..only 2 successful seed plants currently..
ive read and seen using long new zealand sphagnum moss for sprouting seed,starting leaf cuttings..and inbetween stage of corms..it holds moisture great,is leafy/airy..
so.. tropic my man.. i just took 14 leaf cuttings from one of my leafed out titanums.. and have them in terrarium with heat.. 85F ( 29C) sphagnum soaked in kelp powder,vitamin B ,leaf cuttings dipped in rooting powder.
they are covered..so humidity is high as well..
nowthe wait.. heres hoping !! i will take some pics


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RE: A. titanum during winter

Dave, anyone can buy land in Australia. There's huge areas near me bought up by the Sultan of Brunei (it pays to have a lot of money up front). The Chinese are also buying up huge cattle and sheep stations. The Japanese and all else have been doing it for years. There's a lot of controversy about it. We can't go and buy land in those countries, they don't allow it. It's not so much that they just buy the land, but they don't do it to live and become part of the community. They're just absentee owners. And we're going to end up paying rent to foreigners. So come in a grab your bit fast, otherwise you'll be looking up Chinese websites or visiting real estate agencies in Beijing for property in Australia. (Sorry, I'll get off my soapbox now.)

Your leaflet cuttings should do well in that terrarium. Don't know what moisture level is best for them but I found that mine in sphagnum were really saturated, you could see the water in it, but still going really well. Been there since January and now getting to the end of winter. Although, this has been the coldest August ever recorded. About the front end loader, I have one for my tractor. Don't know what I would have done without it, it's been an absolute god-send, especially now when I've got a lot of logs to move. This is a photo of it hauling out one of the logs too heavy to lift. I've done so much work on my place with it, I'd be lost without it.

Rob, had a look at that video. They get a lot of cloud forest in Sumatra so that along with the very high humidity makes it easier for plants out in the open. I get too much low humidity here, a lot lower than yours a lot of the time. Wet season is okay, but these plants have to get through our dry season as well. When they're dormant titanum tubers shouldn't dry out, it kills them. Sphagnum could retain enough moisture. During this last dormancy of my large one I checked the tuber in the pot and the soil was soggy. Most of the organic matter had broken down and the rest wasn't draining well. I checked the tuber and no damage. No doubt in Sumatra the dormant tubers would be soggy as well, they get 2 wet seasons and (like you) no real dry season (by my standards).


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RE: A. titanum during winter

Tropibreezent,

Nice bit of machinery there.

I've found my 'ol Fergie TEA20 to also be a "can't do without" tool around the homestead. It's mixed concrete for building our house, kept the grass and weeds down during the wet, graded the drive, ripped the ground for planting rainforest plots and was a necessity in cleaning up after the "big blows" we've had in the last ten years (cyclones Larry and Yasi). I know what you mean.

As I recall your "dry" is a heck of a lot drier then anything we experience here on the Tablelands. Tableland's locals winge about drizzle when we should be getting dry, sunny weather, but that light drizzle leaves the local landscape in a much greener state then the strict monsoon conditions of the Northern Territory.

It's interesting to note that you are getting some particularly cool weather up your way (although probably nothing like Dave experiences). We're finding the same thing here in FNQ. Although, I must admit, it makes Cairns a much more pleasant day trip.


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RE: A. titanum during winter

tropic..u mentioned your potting mix breaking down after a growing season..i found same with mine couple yrs ago..
i made my own..was a high quality mix..reason i went on search what others were using as potted plant potting mix.. on container forum here..much discussion on gritty mix .
using pine bark,and other additions..
i was concerned about using such a draining mix on my amorphs.. but.this is my 2nd yr with it..and my amorphs.. tropical..and konjac,various species.. have done really well.. i use pine bark,pumice,and add fine mineral mix..
i get great root developement,nice firm white roots. and good corm growth.. i know i would get bigger konjac corms if they had another couple months growing.. for me here..im lucky if i get beginning of oct before nite temps are low 50sF..
the tropicals all come inside before that though..
sure could use that front ender then!!! :)
?? is the most tropical area of australia up in york peninsula? from my searching..its pretty remote too??


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RE: A. titanum during winter

Dave,

The Atherton Tablelands is at the base of the Cape York Peninsula just inland from the northern most Queensland city of Cairns. Tropicbreezent is even more tropically inclined then me. The coastal city of Darwin gets pretty steamy when the monsoons start coming around. I believe Darwin is the source of the famous Oz expression "mango madness" which relates to the intense build up of the wet season and its effect on people's tempers.

I'm interested in the details of your mix. Right now I'm just using water leeched (in case of salt) coconut coir mixed with perlite and a "tad" of fine sand. I did add a bit of pine bark, but I wound up putting most of it in the bottom of the pot as a drainage material instead of rock (local volcanic scoria). My titanums seem to be doing well, but I still wonder if my combo is optimum for my conditions. I'd be curious to see what our mate up in the N.T. is using.

Also, I'd really love to see what those mature petioles you all are getting look like from top to pot (photos?). As of this moment, all I have are an assortment of juveniles in different states. Cairns Botanical Gardens has removed all their mature titanums from the public eye while they re-develope the old facility. Come on guys, I need some visual stimulation! (big grin)


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RE: A. titanum during winter

thanks for thoughts rob..
i have some of my titanums pics on earlier posts..here are some..and as i said..this yr..a bit dissapointing..its been a coolish summer here..:(


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RE: A. titanum during winter

and one of the larger corms..really like the roots!! :)


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RE: A. titanum during winter

Dave, All I have to say is WOW!!!!

Beautiful "mature" form petiole. I recognize your porch cover in the background from one of your earlier posted photos. I actually copied that image and had it on my desktop for awhile. I may "officially" be in the tropics, but I'm amazed at what you are accomplishing with some pretty tough winter conditions.

Beautiful corm with very healthy roots! I can't wait for my larger juvenile to go dormant so I can check out the corm. How many years did it take for your first titanum to produce a mature form petiole?


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RE: A. titanum during winter

Yes, our Dry Season is really dry. My last rain was about 6 mm at the beginning of May. Since then it's been over 30C each day, often with wind, and always with blazing blue skies. Usually late August temps are getting high 30's to 40C with humidity rising. But this year the humidity is right down, except nights when it gets back up over 90%. We get overhead sun on the 28th October and again 10th February. Our UV index in late winter is 11. The hottest humid months are October and November, but December it depends on when the monsoon arrives. The rains cool things down.

I mix my own medium for pots, but also use some bought potting soil in it. For the titanums I put a layer of limestone rocks, then some African Mahogany bark, then a mix of the bark with charcoal and the bought potting soil.

This is a link to a thread I started mainly about the felling of African Mahoganys at my place a few weeks ago. But it shows a little bit of the garden as well (those Mahoganys were in the garden).

www.au.gardenweb.com/forums/load/gallery/msg07044551942.html?12

By the way Dave, that last photo of yours is a good one showing why it's a tuber and not a corm. Corms have a basal plate with a swollen storage stem above from which the new shoot/s grow. The roots come out of the basal plate. The roots of a tuber come from the top, where the above ground stem shoots. They can also produce "eyes" on the sides where secondary growths can start.

Here's my modest little collection of titanums, except for the cuttings. They're up near the house. 2 on the right are the seedlings, on the left is the newly emerging older one. The leaflet cutting from January came from the seedling on the right, the recent 3 cuttings came from the one on the left.

gw n 140829 02


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RE: A. titanum during winter

tropicbreezent, I'll never winge about the local weather again. Those are some hot temps and particularly dry winters. Cooktown sounds better and better all the time! "grin"

With the titanums you grew from seed, did you find that the first petiole produce was somewhat "anemic" looking. Almost all my seedlings have light, "blotchy" petioles. They appear healthy enough, but they don't have a nice even, rich green colouration. I've tried more nitrogen and chelated iron, but the light colour still persists. I don't think it's a mosaic virus.


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RE: A. titanum during winter

How old are they? When they age they get a bit like that. These were mine at about 4 to 6 weeks old. (You'll probably recognise my Bowenia spectabilis seedlings in that pic too.)

gw mr 110308 19


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RE: A. titanum during winter

tropic..u sure r gonna have a forest of titanums in a few yrs!! :)


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RE: A. titanum during winter

Tropicbreezent, My seedlings have virtually been like that since the petiole first opened. Plenty of light and fertilizer, but not a nice healthy green like yours.


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RE: A. titanum during winter

Tropicbreezent, My seedlings have virtually been like that since the petiole first opened. Plenty of light and fertilizer, but not a nice healthy green like yours.


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RE: A. titanum during winter

I started mine in a mix with a lot of sand. Otherwise, nothing special. I had about a dozen but while away for a while the automatic irrigation played up and I lost all but 2.


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RE: A. titanum during winter

heres pics of this yrs..stunted titanum..this one was just
over 7 ft tall last growing season..sigh..:( its 41 inches tall over the pot..


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RE: A. titanum during winter

pic of last for this season titanum tubers to be potted up from last yr.. its been dormant for little over a month.. old roots have rotted away..nice new ones now.potted it up today..put it in a 60 gal ( 230L ) fabric pot.. these big pots r gonna break my back in a month when they all have to come in..sigh.. this one is just over 7 inches ( 18 cm) wide


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RE: A. titanum during winter

That's a dramatic change from one year to the next. Something like half, is it? But it's a real "fatso" (don't tell it I said so). You're going to have to get that greenhouse going. It's that or a crippled back.


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RE: A. titanum during winter

Interesting photos... "Stunted" it may be, but it still looks very healthy. I have seen photos of a titanums that produce smaller petioles and flowers then those usually seen. I've wonder if this might be a result of genetics or environment?


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RE: A. titanum during winter

ya..the petiole is very healthy..great colour,leaves are firm..
it has really been a lousy summer here for true tropicals..
mmm..i do live in utah..LOL :).. but most years end of june thru early sept are good for my tropicals..
the nite temps though have been coolish.. and im sure my titanums havent appreciated it..
i hope that during this vegetative growth period..with good care from me over the winter (inside)..i can get the tubers to put on some good size..


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RE: A. titanum during winter

My larger titanum seems to be coming along quite well. But it looks a bit different to previous years. The past few years have seen a number of major disasters befall it. Such as petiole being broken by the wind, partly decapitated by falling branches, and then last season shortened by being cooked out in the sun during hot dry windy weather. It looks thicker than usual, and there's a 'flappy bit' on the edge of one of the leaf sheaths.

gw n 140910 03

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RE: A. titanum during winter

looks good to me tropic!! my larger titanums always
get those side parts of the petiole..they eventually dry up..while the petiole keeps growing and the leaf unfurls..
?? how big is this tuber??
hope it doesnt hook up with any falling tree limbs this yr!!


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RE: A. titanum during winter

NOT like any leaf I've seen before!

gw n 140912 05

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RE: A. titanum during winter

mm..i see what ya mean tropic..
doesnt look like flower ..have you checked the tuber..its not rotting anywhere?
in the pic..it looks pale green/yellow..is that the colour?
mmmm...a puzzlement..


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RE: A. titanum during winter

It seems these titanum all have "individual" personalities. From the last photo it almost looks like a spadix (!!??). I'm bloody curious to see what eventuates. Keep us posted.


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RE: A. titanum during winter

that is true rob.. couple yrs ago..i got the thought i could
grow out my tropical amorphs..mostly titanums..during spring,summer,fall.then get them to go dormant..then repeat the next yr. LOL..right..thats worked out..lol :)
my own experience..i have a couple titanums that are like clockwork..8 months vegetative growth. 2 months dormant..then a new petiole pops up.. another titanum..it was in leaf for almost 14 months..was dormant for maybe 3 weeks..and pow..a new petiole is shooting up again..
i have a small titanum ive had 2 yrs now.. puts on ok tuber growth..but leafs out two times each vegetative growth.then goes dormant.its been dormant now for almost 3 months.. is just starting to send roots out..so im guessing a petiole is soon to come..
they truely dance to their own drummer.. :) makes them facinating plants..


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RE: A. titanum during winter

I'm glad someone other than me has finally noticed the "elephant in the room". Right from when the new shoot started I knew there was something strange about it, but didn't want to say in case I jinxed it. Was waiting for someone else to say something first. Now it's become all too obvious. And also obvious that it's an imposter. That's not a titanum!

The bloke I bought it off grew a few different Amorphs but assured me what I got was a genuine titanum. I now suspect it's a gigas. Should have a better idea when it fully opens. On the one hand I feel ripped off, on the other I'm happy to have an A. 'Whatever' flowering. Maybe I should save the pollen and try crossing it with paeoniifolius if one flowers this year. Would be quite interesting if it took.

That now puts me back to waiting for my seedlings to be the first to flower, which won't happen any time soon. Had been secretly hoping I had at least a dwarfed titanum flower (after all the accidents). Now not sure whether to cheer or cry.


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RE: A. titanum during winter

tropic..the petiole stalk is very speckled ..unlike titanums ive seen..and i for sure am not any kind of good source of what variations happen with titanum..
?? how big is the tuber tropic?? if it is as u suspect gigas.. my understanding gigas flowers with a significantly smaller
tuber compared to titanum..
so.. you might get a flower next season with this..
a friend of mine gets gigas to flower around 12 pounds
( 5.5 kg )
also..i believe gigas has the tallest petiole of the "tropical" amorphs.. or up there with decus-silvae..
one thing for you..you are growing them outdoors.. so you have the whole sky for the petiole to grow up..
:)
im anxious as im sure you are.. to see how this develops.. keep us posted.. :)


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RE: A. titanum during winter

A. gigas... Hey, that's pretty exciting too! Isn't that one of the parents of the famous Singapore titanum cross?


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RE: A. titanum during winter

This thing is growing rapidly. 2 days ago I measured it from soil level to tip of spathe/spadix at 130 cms. Today it's 160 cms. Length of the spathe is 49 cms, circumference of stalk at soil level is 26 cms. And it's still not ready to open up. If it keeps going like that I'm going to have to use a ladder to measure it.

I haven't heard of any crosses with either titanum or gigas. Are there any images around anywhere?

Todays photo.
gw n 140917 05


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RE: A. titanum during winter

tropic..if this is a gigas..it makes sense.. unlike titanum..the flower is on a relatively short petiole ..gigas has i believe the tallest flower of the "tropical" amorphs..
im willing to bet..u will be getting a flower from your plant
to me thats a flower ..not a leaf forming ..
yea !!! on aroid.org they have pics of gigas..also just google A.gigas..and alot of pics come up..
im jealous man.. :)
?? do you remember how big the tuber was on this one??
its my desire to raise tubers where i get flowering "tropical" amorphs.. they all have their own unique challenges..
titanum..size of the tuber, gigas and decus-salvae the height of the flower, and hewettii ..just getting a tuber to flowering size..
its what makes all this so fun.. :)
looking foward to seeing the flower tropic..


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RE: A. titanum during winter

I just checked; it wasn't titanum X gigas, but titanum X variabilis that resulted in Amorphophallus "Jon Tan"
( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIW6-zCPbuQ#t=70 ).

It may not be A. titanum, but A. gigas is still a pretty impressive Amoph. to bring to flowering. Can't wait to see more photos. Hopefully any hot, dry weather you might be getting up that way won't be causing any problems.


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RE: A. titanum during winter

Well, this morning it was 193 cms and still seems to be powering on. Looks like it's trying to out grow the bamboo beside it (bamboo's about 18 metres tall, so good luck to it). I'm still leaning towards it being gigas, but the other option is decus-silvae.

Dave, end of last season the tuber was 3.265 kg. I think it was the season before that when it actually shrunk following those accidents and the sunburn. Height shouldn't be an issue. There's a large Ficus on one side and the tall bamboo on the other. The Ficus does have a dead limb sort of over the amorph and off to the side. Going to have to get rid of that without damaging the inflorescence.

Rob, that video was interesting. Unfortunately I don't have a "cloud forest greenhouse" to put mine into, but at least it won't have that number of people milling around it. The weather's not really the best but this amorph seems to be coping with it quite well. The air is still too dry so we're still getting a bigger temperature range than normal. It's mainly the nights that are staying low, a few degrees below average for this time of year. The days are around 37 - 38C, have even had 39C. So if that humidity doesn't improve it's not looking good for October.


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RE: A. titanum during winter

Tropic,

We're getting warm dry days with wind, but pretty cool nights. I'm still not game to leave my titanums out at night for fear of a freak frost. I've got my eye on a nice postion for the titanums in my lower rainforest when the weather stabilizes. I'll just have to work out a way of excluding the bloody bandicoots, swamp hens and scrub fowl from access to the pots. Are there any Oz insects that bother your titanums?


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RE: A. titanum during winter

Rob, have never had any problems from bandicoots in relation to any Amorph, although they often dig around the garden. I think they're more interested in insects. And the scrub fowl (jungle fowl) only ever emptied out a pot of seedlings on me. You'd also have scrub/brush turkeys, no doubt much the same sort of problem as the jungle fowl. I've never had any insect problem. A couple of years ago when the wind broke the gigas stem some insects did get inside through the break, that's the only time.

This afternoon the gigas was up to 246 cms. Spadix is showing more above the spathe. I thought growth was slowing, but doesn't seem to be the case. Where the spathe has loosened up a Northern Laughing Frog (Litoria rothii) has taken up residence. I bet it vacates when that smell starts up.

gw n 140922 02

gw n 140922 03

gw n 140922 05


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RE: A. titanum during winter

u have some very cool pics there tropic!!
one with frog..sweet!! :)
flower petiole..wow.. fantastic!
if u r like me..id be thinkin of what could snap that
petiole.. sigh..
last yr when my 2 biggest titanums got really tall..i didnt give it a thought.. until neighbour kid said.."wow,you dont worry someone will come over and cut that down?"
what the (#&$()# .. not until now..LOL
so..this yr when they were outside..they were in backyard..very protected..lol :)
i cant wait to see the flower open man..
what do u think..maybe a week away still??
keep us posted!! very cool..


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RE: A. titanum during winter

I've noticed around here that L. rothii have a handle on all the good locations. When the pong starts I'm sure that "fly magnet" will prove a good location for any hungry amphib.

Nice photos, keep 'em coming.


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RE: A. titanum during winter

This evening it was 279 cms, and the spathe still hasn't unfurled. It seems to have grown 15 cms just from morning to this evening. But I gave it about 5 litres of water (no fertiliser) this morning. It was only getting trickle irrigation because earlier on in the year I noticed the soil was very soggy so I turned the water right down. Checking it again, the soil was getting dry. Maybe that's why it put on that extra fast burst of growth today. I'll give it some more water in the morning again. The nights have warmed up, 21.8C minimum last night, todays maximum was 37C. I've stopped guessing when it'll fully open up.

I'm starting to become overwhelmed by the size of the thing. Seeing it close up is just mind boggling. I've had to extend the ladder to keep measuring it. Lucky I put it near the bamboo, that can take the weight of the ladder leaning against it with me.

I'm over run with frogs at the moment, particularly L. rothii. I lift up things and there's usually one sleeping underneath. They're in the house, and the car. The other day in the supermarket I handed the check-out-chick one of my re-useable shopping bags and out jumped a L. rothii. I'll be glad when the rains start, then they'll move towards the dam and the swamp and away from the house.


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RE: A. titanum during winter

i too am amazed at what agressive growers amorphs are.. last yrs biggest titanums supprised me too at how much daily growth they put on..
?? tropic..do you have a video cam where u could set up.when flower looks like it might be days away from opening? that would be a major cool vid for youtube..!!
i know you would get major hits on it..
ive been unpotting some of my konjac with early petiole dying off.. this yr for the konjac..has been a good one..
some of my small side fingers off the mother tubers..put on 4X size..went from maybe 2 cm to 9 cm..ive only unpotted 4 pots..i have alot more..im anxious to see how the larger ones did.. it would be cool to see a MONSTER tuber.:)
all my larger titanums are now shooting up petioles.. they are showing the appreciation of warmer nites(they are inside the house now) by petiole growth.. :)
keep us posted on your gigas bloom man!!!!


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RE: A. titanum during winter

lomodor:
I'm just curious... what sort of low temperatures have your titanums been directly exposed to at your location? I'm keen to find out how low one can go before the plants start having problems. Although I do live in the tropical region of Oz, my altitude means that it is possible to get the odd frost. Our "dead of winter" temps can dip below 10C. Your titanums look so healthy!

Tropic:
The N.T. gets much hotter then the Tablelands. Has too much heat (even with shade and humidity) ever been a problem?


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RE: A. titanum during winter

Finally broken the 3 metre barrier, this evening it measured 304.5 cms. Dave, you'd better start raising that ceiling of yours. You're going to need a lot of head room soon.

Rob, they do tend to wilt a bit when it gets very hot. Even on hot days when the sea breeze starts to kick in the extra wind, even though a little cooler, doesn't help much. But it doesn't seem to leave any long lasting negative affects.

Took a photo tonight, the night time shot makes the plant stand out a bit more from the background.

gw n 140927 15


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RE: A. titanum during winter

3 metres and it's not even open yet!!! What a treat. You're going to need a crane or abseiling gear to get that next photo.(grin)


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RE: A. titanum during winter

Seems to have peaked at 310 cms. Today the spathe opened out and there are flies around it. Down wind there's a distinct stench of putrescent flesh. I guess now I'll have to get out my 'surgical instruments' and perform the operation. At our temperatures I don't think the pollen will last long, but then, when do I have to get it to the female flowers?

gw n 140930 12

This post was edited by tropicbreezent on Tue, Sep 30, 14 at 0:13


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RE: A. titanum during winter

Fantastic!

Good luck with the pollination.


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RE: A. titanum during winter

Thanks Rob, but I think the pollination will be very difficult. The female flowers mature and become receptive before the male flowers release the pollen. It's a strategy to prevent self pollination common amongst a lot of aroids. All I can do really is to save the pollen and store it possibly 2 to 3 years when it flowers again and hope that the pollen is still viable. Need to dry it and find out what the best storage temps are.


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RE: A. titanum during winter

my good friend tropic.. hows the gigas doing??
did you save any pollen? try selfing it?
i figure youve been away at work..bet its hard to be away..:) our plants huh..lol
update here.. 12 titanum seeds i got from indonesia..have all sprouted and have tiny white new roots comming out from the seed.. YEA !! also 4 of my leaf cuttings have taken.. omg..titanums galore..LOL well..not quite yet..:)
i'll take some pics of the seedlings when petioles show above the spaghnum moss..
i like this new method of sprouting seed.. i got from good man on fb.. i have a bunch of gigas and hewettii seed comming too.. they should arrive this week..
i think with all these seeds..if they do all germinate..i will need to set up another "inside greenhouse"..LOL
or move to darwin.. :)


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RE: A. titanum during winter

The gigas looks a bit sad now, or definitely sagging anyway. Didn't collect any pollen, never saw any. Am wondering whether the heat affected it. It does to tomatoes here, heat "kills" the pollen. Tomatoes are only a winter crop here. Spring/summer is just too hot for them. Average max temp. for September was 37.2C, and for October it's running about 38.4C. Not ideal for rain/cloud forest plants. Maybe have to put it in airconditioning next time. That would be drier air though. And the stench in a confined space would be something else.

Dave, I'm amazed where you get all these plants/seeds from. Indonesia? How did you find them? That's right next door to me, and I've never found any sources there. Where are your gigas and hewettii coming from?

One of my (larger) seedling titanums is going dormant now, the other is still going well, only been growing 3 to 4 months so far this time.

The leaflet cuttings are looking bad, especially the oldest (January 2014) but still hanging on. The tuber on that first one is getting really big (for a leaflet). The 3 done more recently only have small indications of tubers forming.


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RE: A. titanum during winter

hey tropic!! guess your gigas flower has long gone now?? it is super u got such a flower of that tuber!!
yea..i got referred to 3 sources in singapore,java,and borneo.. ebay had some of the gigas seed show up for sale..but i got directly from guy that collected the seed..
ive found facebook a great resource..both plant/seeds
and good info on culture.. theres an amorphophallus forum there..:) super people !!! just like here..:)
my titanum seeds have lots of white roots on the seeds..and couple are already sending up petioles..yea!
now i just better not kill them..LOL im thiinking of taking a few more leaf cuttings from one of my titanums.. now that i think i have a good method to getting them to root..
lol..like i need more plants..:) its an addiction!!!! :)


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RE: A. titanum during winter

Dave, How low a temperatures have you exposed your A. titanums to without any noticeable problems? Bonn says they don't like anything below 25 degrees C.


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RE: A. titanum during winter

hi rob.. my titanums probably take the lowest they really should.. range of 19 C..thats the lowest.. and thats when they are outside..and early morning..coldest part of the day..
currently they are all inside ..and they get 23 C nites.. around 27 C days. they do just fine..im sure the tubers
dont grow as fast and large as if they were grown in greenhouse with 28 C + conditions.. but i dont live in tropics..yet..LOL.. and no big greenhouse.. YET ..:)
from my reading.. the germans are very successful at growing titanums in slightly cooler temps.and gettting them to bloom at smaller sizes..than here in USA..
i read of european titanums blooming at 40-50 pounds
where in USA..most i read about are in 70 +pound range.. also..the europeans seem to grow there tubers in smaller pots than we "typically " do here in USA..
i use pretty big pots..but ive thought on this. obviously the europeans are VERY successful at growing titanum..
and with the other "tropical" "giant" amorphs.. decus-silvae and hewettii seem to have there own unique
quirks at growing well.. gigas no so much.. my gigas so far seem to be pretty tough ..:)
and..im certainly not as skilled.or experienced and knowledgable as others are.


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RE: A. titanum during winter

Dave,

Thanks for the response on low temps. Your titanums look so bloody healthy even when reduced in size from a previous season!

I live in the tropics, but my altitude here on the Atherton Tablelands means that our temperatures (especially at night) can get well below that recommended by the Germans. Right now I'm doing pretty much the same thing you are... bringing the "babies" in at night. This coming summer should be ok for leaving them out all night, but I don't know how I'll handle the next winter. If they all survive, I'll probably have to "adopt" my small mob of titanums out to mates down on the Coral Sea Coast.


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RE: A. titanum during winter

From the sounds of it mine are far from being pampered. Life's tough in the outback, LOL. In winter mine had average daily maximums of around 32C to 34C with minimums averaging around 14C. Average maximum for September was 37.2C, and for October so far it's 38.4C. Haven't had a 37C for the whole of October. And Unfortunately low relative humidity. The titanums, kept in the shade, seem to cope quite well with plenty of water. The gigas doesn't seem to like the heat as much as the titanums. But I don't pay attention, or fertilise, as much as I should. I'll see how one of the titanums is going shortly, it's just gone dormant so I'll be repotting it soon.


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RE: A. titanum during winter

Tropic, it's excellent to get an idea of what the titanums can actually take and still thrive. I keep reading articles that state that if you can't give them specific conditions, don't bother even trying to grow them. I really enjoy the challenge of proving them wrong.


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