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Dan/importing

beachplant
18 years ago

OK, to feed my evergrowing addiction, to all things growing, tell me more about importing. Who? When? What? I know I have to get a certificate from the state to import, no big deal, just send them money, but what else? Any suggestions on who?

Just don't tell me anyone to get bromeliads, nepenthes or such as I have NO will power and will have to rent the house and sleep in the garden shed to pay for my junkie ways.

Mostly I'm looking for amorphs this next year.

And if you believe I will stick with just those....

Tally HO!

Comments (11)

  • bluebonsai101
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hi,

    Well, first let me say that most everyone I import from I have a business relationship with and so I just can not tell you those people...sorry, but this is how I pay for my own addiction!! I do try to go in with people for various things...no one wanted anything from South Africa last year when I offered and I routinely go in with people for stuff from China. I also offered to go in with people for my bulb order from Latvia but no one was interested in that either....these are for things that I just want a few of for fun and not to try and pay for my plant hobby out of control, but apparently I am the only person interested in Eucomis, Crinum, Colchium, Fritillaria and the like that also likes aroids....go figure!!

    You can import tons of Arisaema from Chen Yi along with lots of other beautiful lilies, Asarum, etc. etc., etc. etc. The only problem with Chen Yi is there is a better than 50:50 chance that the stuff will be mis-named. This does not particularly bother me in the least and I have imported from her many times to expand my own personal collection. The place for Nepenthes that I am aware of is Malesiana Tropicals. I must say I only ordered plants from them once and they were useless little pieces of junk that I would not wish on my worst plant enemy (is there such a thing). The plants arrived broken off and almost 100% dead....they were total junk and I will never personally buy from them again. I e-mailed them and complained and they said they would send seed instead of plants which was what I would have preferred given their incompetence at sending living plants....they never sent the seed. Sorry for the rant!! I know others have had some success with them, and they do have some spectacular plants but I would be very cautious about them. If you can get seed from them they are always fresh and germinate incredibly well. There is Shikoku out of Japan...prices a bit high for wholesale and you have to buy atleast 25 of any species....wonderful plants though from what I know of them...this is where Asiatica used to get all of their Arisaema and some other stuff....if anyone wants to try and coordinate an order from this place in Japan I will gladly either coordiante it or simply go in with others and they can take the lead and just ship me my plants...let me know.

    As for the APHIS import permit. Go to the following site: http://www.aphis.usda.gov/ppq/permits/plantproducts/nursery.html

    You will then fill out PPQ Form 587 which takes all of 5 minutes and then 2 weeks to get it in the mail giving you an import permit starting with the number 37-XXXX. You do not need to be all inclusive....just put down some country....say China and a few species....say Arisaema sp. 1 and Asarum sp. 1 and 2 .....the permit that you will get is good for any country and any non-CITES protected plant...it is real easy and do not let other people convince you otherwise!!

    You have to realize that most places in Indonesia or Thailand that export Amorphs are going to ship around Dec. as this is when they are dormant there....it is a pain for me so I do not take shipment until March, but for you in your zone it will not be a hassle at all. Some places will only deal with large orders...around $500 or more....others like Chen Yi (I've never, ever had an Amorph from her survive except konjac and albus..all the others rotted in transit for me) will accept a very small order of just a few plants. Her Arisaema and lilies have been wonderful though...misnamed many times, but wonderful!! I have a list from Gusman that gives the corect names for many of these if anyone wants it by the way!!

    I am also trying to get an order together for some specimen size Adenium out of India from Ashish Hansoti who is the top Adenium grower in India and has several of his own introductions. If anyone here is interested in Adenium maybe we can figure out a way to save a bit on shipping by coordinating an order...the minimum is $500 which is OK as I am trying to import some serious plants and am willing to pay the piper so to speak!!

    Also, you will have to pay for a phyto....usually only $20 from most countries....from India $20 covers the entire order....in Thailand it is $20 per box of bulbs....weird!! Austrlaia is expensive at maybe around $100 if I remember correctly from my last shipment.

    When you ship you will likely want to use a DHL Jumbo Box (or equivalent). From India this is 25 Kg and from Thailand this is 20 Kg.....the cost is around $200 for shipping which is a real good deal in my opinion. If you want massive amounts and you live near one of the 5 international airports that can inspect plants (JFK, Miami, LA, SF and someplace in TX) then you can use airfreight and get a broker to get the plants through the USDA and Customs for you.....this is not worthwhile for me as I import maybe only 300-400 Kg per year and they are coming from many countries and I'd have to get to NY or Miami....not going to happen.

    There are probably other things I'm forgetting, but you can post again here or e-mail me and I'll try to answer as best I can.

    Oh yeah....please expect with Amorphs that you will lose somewhere between 10 and 20% of them to rot during shipping...this has been routine for me and others that I have talked to that import a lot. From what I gather the Indonesian species are particularly prone to this problem. From Thailand I can say from personal experience that the long thin tubers like crudassianus, macrorhizus and longituberosus are prone to rot and or dessication during shipping. This is not a problem really, but I would suggest if you want 10 of a given species to order 12 or so to make sure you get 10 good ones!!

    Also, for anyone in zone 6 like me that is wanting to do this...I also find that many of these do not break dormancy for an entire year after being dug and shipped to me....even if they are shipped in the spring it is often the next year before they grow. I do not know why, but this is my personal experience that you can do whatever with...I do not know about southern growers. I also find that some that should grow after flowering the same year take a year off in my climate.....I imported many Am. asterostigmatus that flowered and were absolutely the correct ID....I know David had one or two of these as well. They did not grow for an entire year even though in Thailand they certainly grow the same year....go figure!!

    Hope some of this long-winded nonsense helps atleast a little bit. As I said, if I can help more please let me know :o) Dan

  • durch
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Dan,
    We have nurseries in both Thailand and Florida. Adeniums are one of our specialties. If you're interested I can probably help you with your specimen pieces. I would hand select them, ship them to myself in Florida. Hold them in the nursery until have recovered from the stress of shipment and then forward on to you.
    For that matter I can supply many Amorpho tubers. I have nice atroviridus now that are just about ready to come out of dormancy, or have started making roots.
    Please contact me privately and let me know if I can help.
    Chris

  • minibim
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I would second the opinion on Malesiana. I'd also be interested in going in on an order if anyone is ever trying to meet the minimums.

    I posted this on the tropicals forum.
    Australian nursery

  • durch
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I have also received plants from Malesiana. My experience was that the plants were too small to be shipped via a carrier that takes so long to deliver. If you don't live in or near a city with a Designated Port of Entry I wouldn't bother ordering plants from them. If I ever ordered again it would have to be via airfreight, and that is still problematic to the East Coast. Maybe folks in Los Angeles would have better luck.
    I should also say that everyone at Malesiana was very courteous and seemed to want to help, but I did not want to throw good money after bad by paying additional shipping charges only to receive more dead plants.

    Chris

  • klavier
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Wow! You learn something every day.

  • beachplant
    Original Author
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks for the info. The someplace in Texas is Houston, just up the road and in our way when we evacuate. December would probably be best for us as it is usually fairly cool then, not always, sometimes it is in the 90's, and a lot of years by March I've quit shipping because it is just getting too hot.
    Let me know next time you need someone to pitch in on orders from other places/other stuff. Fritillaria won't grow for us, too hot, but certainly some of the other stuff will.
    Also let me know if you want any other crinums, I think you have J C Hardee? or was it a different one? I've got tons of them, mostly unidentified because none of us can agree or find a good source to id them. They are weeds here and I do a lot of rescues of them. Ditches, construction sites, old homesites, etc.
    Also if you want something shipped to you but don't want to go to NY or wherever if you can get it to Houston I can get it and forward it on, one of my friends lives less than a mile from the airport.
    What were you going to import from Latvia? You'd think arisaema would grow for us but unfortunately not, too hot? too humid? I'm not sure. I have to grow my adeniums in pots on the deck or our spring monsoons, tropical storm, etc. cause them to rot. Same with most of my cacti and succulents.
    Trying to NOT find out where to import gingers (bear creek farms and their nursery in Houston help feed those addictions), nepenthes or other stuff as I'd really be broke then! YOu know how it is, no will power.
    I'm thinking of figuring out how to grow plants on the roof, if only I weren't afraid of heights.
    Tally HO!

  • kwoods
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Dan, please send me the Gusman/Chen Yi ID list. Does it have the Amorphs as well as the Arisaema listed?My email

    Thanks!

  • bluebonsai101
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hi all, I tried to post a long message the other day and the computer crashed...I've got a moment in between expts so I thought I'd reply.

    Chris, I will contact you when I get back to Pittsburgh about Adenium and Amorphs.

    KWoods.....I will send the e-mail on to you when I get back as well....sorry for the delay!!

    Beachplant.....it is the heat, not the humidity that is your problem for Arisaema...I do have two (barnesii and album) that are tropicals and am trying to get more from Thailand so those might interest you!! As for Crinum.....I would like the small species from Thailand and South Africa as these flower in a small 6 inch pot....very nice!! I'm sort of tired of toting my few monster ones around!! I imported Frits., colchium and a few other things from Latvia....the prices are higher than most people I deal with as he is not a wholesaler, but he has wonderful species of tons of things....iris, tuilps, alium, you name it.....at pretty reasonable prices.....no one wanted to go in last year when I asked...oh well :o)

    Have a great week everyone and hopefully our expts. up here in Ra-Cha-Cha will go well :o) Dan

  • bluebonsai101
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hi all, Too busy to reply individually to those that wanted the Gusman list of Chen Yi Arisaema so I'll just post it here. Happy ordering :o) Dan

    A-01: = A. bathycoleum so the correct name
    A-02: = A. franchetianum var., Arisaema brevipes should have a radiatisect
    leaf like ciliatum and consanguineum.
    A-03 & A-04: = correctly named
    A-05: = A. wumengense or saxatile (if wumengense turns out to be a synonym
    of saxatile then the name saxatile has priority but more research is needed
    to be sure)
    A-06: = A. elephas var.
    A-07: = A. lobatum var.
    A-09: = A. franchetianum var., Arisaema rhombiforme is related to A.
    asperatum and a member of section Trisecta
    A-10: = very attractive but unidentified as yet
    A-11: = correctly named
    A-12: = A. engleri "purple form", A. sikokianum only grows in Japan on the
    island of Shikoku and has a much different flower, it's a mistake made in
    Chinese taxonomic literature for A. engleri.
    A-14: = A. franchetianum var. (see the AEG-archives for Wilberts mail on the
    fargesii/franchetianum confusion)
    A-19: = A. wattii, A. biauriculatum is the old name for A. watti so it
    should be A. wattii. A. biauriculatum was renamed in the Kew Bulletin Vol .
    64(1) by Murata to A. wattii
    A-20: = A. franchetianum
    A-21: = Pinellia pedatisecta.
    A-22: = another form of A. rhizomatum
    A-24: = A. engleri "green flowered form"
    A-28 & A-29: = A. engleri var. , what is known in China as A. sikokianum
    var. serratum and var. henryanum are actually A. engleri with serrated
    leaves (var. serratum) and A. engleri with leaves with 7 leaflets instead of
    the usual 5 (var. henryanum). The amount of serration is variable and mature
    specimen produce leaves with 7 leaflets so both variaties are questionable.
    A-32: seems to be correctly identified by Chen Yi. It is very similar in
    habit to A. auriculatum but has smaller auricles and a truncate spadix
    instead of a filiform one.
    A-43: Arisaema multisectum is the old name for A. heterophyllum, the plants
    I got from her as A. multisectum (A-43) were indeed Arisaema heterophyllum
    which should be the correct name for A-43.
    A-48: = A. lobatum var.: Arisaema inkiangense is a species with a rhizome
    (an elongated rootstock like A. rhizomatum) and the plants she sent us were
    clearly A. lobatum with a rounded tuber.
    A-49: = A. franchetianum
    A-50: = A. lobatum var. with broad stripes on the petioles and peduncle, a
    very big form (tuber this year 9 cm across)
    A-51: = A. auriculatum (syn. A. omeiense)
    A-55: = correctly named although it's a very robust form of flavum
    A-59: = A. lobatum var., it is close to the form of lobatum she sells as
    A-07
    A-60: = I received a green-flowered lobatum under this number but Jim
    McClements received a yunnanense-related plant under the same number last
    year.......
    A-61: this is yet another form of lobatum with very broad, unmarked leaflets
    and a pale green flower with a beige flush on the outerside of the spade
    blade.
    A-62 & A-82: Both are color forms of Arisaema rhizomatum. Her "A.
    rhizomatum", A-22, has always died here so we don't know what A-22 is but
    for these 2 we suggest A. rhizomatum "cream colored form" for A-62 and A.
    rhizomatum "red colored form" for A-82. It should however be noted that the
    2 plants we know have flowered (1 A-62 in Wilbert's collection and 1 A-82 in
    the collection of Jim McClements) both had a green flower (but with spots!).
    It's a stunning species but autumn-flowering and a subject for the cold
    greenhouse.
    A-64: correctly named/A. elephas
    A-65: = A. lobatum
    A-67: This item has got nothing to do with multisectum/heterophyllum and is
    a member of section Trisecta. Possibly A. asperatum or similar with a
    asperate petiole and a flower with a white/purple stripe tube and a broad
    green-flushed spathe blade so not multisectum (heterophyllum) nor
    yellow-flowered.....
    A-68: also seems to be correctly named by Chen Yi. It has 2 pedate leaves
    (=/- 11 leaflets) with a comparitively big flower which has a very dark
    purple innerside of the spathe blade. (A. clavatum)
    A-75: = A. ciliatum
    A-83: = unknown species, we have not been able to identify this one and it
    might be a new species. It needs to be grown indoors because it is
    semi-tropical.(Arisaema calcareum)
    A-84: = A. ciliatum
    A-86: It could be A. jingdongense but we received a different plant from her
    than the one on her picture so it is not possible to identify it unless we
    receive the correct item. The plants I recieved were a green form of A.
    consanguineum and not a small yellow-flowering plant as on her picture.
    A-94: = A. elephas var.; Arisaema handelii should have a rugose (~ rough,
    like sandpaper) spadix but A. handelii and A. elephas are closely related
    and handelii might even be a variety of elephas (similar to speciosum and
    it's variety mirabile).
    A-95: Incorrect. Arisaema speciosum is a completely different species from
    Nepal and Bhutan and the A-95 I received looks like a variety of the same
    species as her A-88/A-89/A-90 which is a small form of elephas with purple
    spotted leaves.
    A-96: correctly named, it's a small species (some 20 cm) with a small green
    flower, a white spot in the throat and a silvery zone along the central
    nerves of the 2 trifoliolate leaves, interesting but not stunning......
    A-97: This plant has a big galeatum-type tuber which produces bulblets.
    Although it is close to concinnum flower-wise, it is NOT the same as
    concinnum (hence the name AFF. concinnum), which has a rounded tuber and
    produces stolons. None of our plants had the deep-yellow flower from her
    pictures although one of Wilbert's came close, the rest were more or less
    yellowish-green.
    A-106 = Typhonium horsefieldii
    A-108 & A-109: = A. ciliatum var., I received the same species for both
    numbers and all 4 were a form of A. ciliatum and different from the plants
    on the pictures.
    A-110: = A. franchetianum var.
    A-112: = The name A. coenobialis is a non-existent name. The species on her
    picture is autumn-flowering with a rhizome and is probably A. setosum or
    similar and certainly not suitable for the open garden.= A. calcareum)
    A-112: It seems this year 2 different species are exported by her under this
    number. The first shipments contained a species with a portruding fimbriate
    spadix appendix and seems very close to the Vietnamese A. victoriae and the
    second shipments contained the same species as I recieved as A-83 3 years
    ago (which is still unidentified as yet). Both imports are (semi-)evergreen
    species with glossy trifoliolate leaves. The leaves are very thick and are
    produced on 30 cm long, heavily marmored pseudostems. Both share a green
    flower and a white spot in the throad. Unfortunately both do not resemble
    the plant on Chen Yi's picture so I was wondering, has anyone ever recieved
    a rhizomatous species that produces 5 foliolate leaves without a pseudostem
    under this number?
    A.10: ik heb een keer A. danzhuense de zelfde groene planten in Guy zijn book onder de naam A. asperatum
    A-70: = A. wilsonii
    A-81: = A.wilsonii
    A-81 van Chen Yi zeer waarschijnlijk een ondersoort van A. danzhuense
    A-87: = A. elephas
    A-88: = A. elephas
    A-89: = A.elephas
    A-90: = A. elephas
    A-100 = groot en ciliaat
    A-113: = A. elephas
    A-114: = A. dahaiense
    A-115: = A. yunnanense
    A-118: = A. consanguineum
    A-119: = A. yunnanense
    A-121: = A. cilciatum whit small leaf's
    A-128: = A. elephas
    NOTE: The plants she lists under "erubescens" are most probably forms of
    consanguineum or similar (ciliatum). This mistake is sometimes made by
    Chinese taxonomists but true erubescens is a species restricted to Nepal and
    was only recently reintroduced into cultivation.

  • strever
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Dan
    thank you for this Gusman list
    is it listed on/at the Arisaema L group ?

    Dick

  • bluebonsai101
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hi Dick,

    No Clue. I got it as an e-mail concerning Chen Yi's inability to name her plants correctly :o) Dan