I agree with you. There are some sellers that say that. If I buy something from a seller that says they will not leave feedback until I do, well, I just DON'T LEAVE ANY AT ALL. They can take that however they want.

eBay tutorial on feedback even says that once a buyer has paid in a timely fashion, their end of the feedback loop is considered complete. Then the buyer is the one who decides if their purchase is good, bad or indifferent.

It's poor business for a seller to behave this way. With the new anonymous rating categories that are now being used on eBay, you can leave negative results without retribution...

--Rr

Hi guys, I agree with both of you and can not figure it out myself. I've only looked at the aroid sales for the most part and there are a few sellers that do this....I'd never personally buy from anyone that does that as it makes me feel like they are not confident in their product before shipping so why should I have confidence in it :o) Dan

This is an experience I had once several years ago.
I bought a group of 3 orchids from a seller on eBay who had such a policy. They wouldn't leave positive feedback for his buyers until they left positive feedback for them.

They advertized the orchids as " large blooming sized plants" and showed photos of, indeed, large plants, in bloom, on the auction. These were vandaceous alliance plants.

When I received my plants, I immediately knew that they were not as advertized. They were fairly fresh topcuttings. Of the three, only ONE had more than ONE ROOT (you should never take a topcuttng from a vandaceous plant for propagation purposes without making certain the plant has at least THREE really good healthy stable roots).

I didn't leave feedback right away.

I found out about a week later, quite by accident, that 2 acquaintances of mine, both experienced orchid growers, had also purchased this same group of plants from the same eBay seller. They were likewise unhappy with their purchases, for the exact same reasons I was. They had not left feedback either.

I decided, on my own, that I did not feel the orchids were up to snuff, so I left a "neutral" feedback and cited the exact reason.

One of the other folks decided, independently, the same thing, and did the same.

The third person decided just to not leave feedback.

This seller contacted us by private email, the 2 who gave him NEUTRAL, and started bombarding us with threatening emails. He was very nasty, and went so far as to threaten us with personal bodily harm (over a feedback statement similar to this: Plants NOT bloom size-topcuts-inadequate roots)

We saved all of his threatening emails and sent them to eBay. At first they declined to become involved. But when he got increasingly more personal, threatening to hop on a plane and come out and give us a piece of his mind in person, and when we pointed out that he was in effect under their direct supervision as a seller and they were allowing him to threaten us, they decided he was a liability and he disappeared.

I also showed all of this to my personal attorney, who sent hom a "cease and desist" email. To his credit, he did wise up and desisted.

So my new policy became, its better just to not contribute to someone's feedback score at all, and not have them contribute to yours, than to be held hostage or get into that type of situation with an unstable person.

You know, I think that's probably a very healthy attitude. My one and only negative feedback on ebay is the result of my leaving negative feedback. I ordered a skirt which was never delivered. After weeks of emailing the seller to no avail, I left negative feedback. I too was bombarded with hostile emails by the seller. Very, very nasty stuff. First she claimed that she had delivery confirmation. Then she claimed that the item was destroyed in a flood...in Southern California. Then she claimed that the item was returned as "non-deliverable". After the eventual refund I received an offer to "mutually witdraw" the negative. Well...not a snowball's chance in HELL! The woman is a SLIME and I want the world to know it!
I routinely buy plants via ebay now but have noticed that I get emails that refer to the seller leaving feedback AFTER I leave feedback. It is a hostage situation. What was once a system of checks and balances is no longer functional in my opinion.

I leave good feedback for anyone who buys from me just as soon as they pay--that's what you're supposed to do. Any buyer who pays should get good feedback...I feel my plants will arrive in good shape, and then they will leave good for me when they see their plants.
The only lady who didn't, that one made me mad. She claimed her plant died after she got it, but she didn't tell me until after it died. I sent her another plant, and she even put in the feedback that I did that and that the replacement plant was thriving, but she still gave me a negative feedback. I didn't get that one!
But most people will do the right thing.

Hi Dan,

This is a long post, grab a cup of coffee, and a comfortable chair before reading.

I've been an eBay member for 8 years. I've sold 3,000 items and purchased another 800. Here's what I do with my auctions.

I believe that auctions need to be described accurately, the selling contract described clearly, multiple pictures must show the actual item, and the seller must have a clean history. When describing the item, all of the flaws as well as the attributes should be disclosed. I always underrate the attributes. That is, if it's excellent, I describe it as fair. If fair, I describe it as flawed, and detail the nature of the flaw. I undersell the item in the description, but I include great pictures. Let the buyer decide.

The contract should describe the conditions of the sale. That is, I ship the item within 48 hours. I disclose the exact shipping amount which is a flat fee. Usually I make a little money on shipping (I allocate this for gas money driving to and from the post office) and a few times I lose money because I didn't correctly judge the weight of the shipping material. I eat the shipping loss - it was my judgment failure. I send an email confirmation when the item is delivered to the post office or UPS office. At that point, my contract obligation is complete.

Multiple pictures should show the item from different angles. The item should be well lite and a closeup picture or two should be included, especially showing a flaw or damage. All images should be of the actual item and not of a sample item.

I start all my auctions at 99 cents. Occasionally I wind up selling a $30 item for 99 cents. Other times I sell a $10 item for $40. It all averages out. I believe that the market will determine a fair price for the item.

Before I bid, I look at the sellers rating. If there are lots of negatives, I don't place a bid. If there are a rare few negatives, I go back into their sales record and read what the negative feedback said. Then I look at the record of the person who left the negative feedback and I examine their negative feedback history. This complete research might take me 10 or 20 minutes. It is well worth the time. I research every negative comment. I find that I forgive sellers that say, My fault - I'm sorry, and I forgive sellers that leave a positive rating on a buyer that gave them a negative. I want to bid on an item from a seller that clearly intends to do good - even though bad luck occasionally happens.

With that said, I'll share some of my more interesting auctions.

My shipment to one buyer was destroyed in the mail. The buyer wrote me a personal email note that the item was destroyed, but they thought that it was exceptionally well packaged by me and that the buyer had made a mistake by not purchasing the optional shipping insurance. They then posted a positive about me on eBay with nice comments. While the buyer considered the matter closed, I did not. I was so impressed by their email and actions that I shipped them a replacement item for free. My gesture of goodwill.

On another occasion, I receive a payment letter through the USPS mail. The mail was opened and the envelope was empty. The buyer had elected to send cash through the mail (a very bad idea). I reviewed the buyers feedback - it was outstanding. I had a cup of coffee, sat at my computer, and pondered the situation. I believed that this buyer did actually send the payment and it was stolen. They used bad judgment, but intended to do the right thing. I shipped them their item even though I never received the cash. I also sent them an email and informed them about the mail theft.

On one more auction, I had witnessed a fiery bidding war on one of my items. First one guy would bid, then the other guy would bid. This went one for several days, but it got boiling in the last 2 minutes. When the dust settled, my $10 item had sold for $170. The two crazy bidders turned out to be the same two buyers that I had shipped the previous items to for free.

So Dan, to answer your question (I told you this was a long post), I post an immediate positive rating on eBay the moment that I receive payment. I do it because it's the right thing to do. And if I get stung occasionally - so what? It all averages out in the end. And perhaps you will eventually benefit from the goodwill as I have on numerous occasions.

Hope this helps.

Tom

I too was burned by one of those, only he didn't state up front that he wouldn't leave feedback until you did. I also got the e-mails that if I would withdraw my NEUTRAL feedback that he would remove his negative feedback. I refused, he wrote very nasty lies about me, I complained to e-bay with no results. I merely stated the truth, the plants were very small, advertised as "large, healthy", they were poorly or not labeled and delivery took just long enough that they were gone from my e-bay profile, in effect trying to keep anyone from posting negative comments, I kept the info so could post feedback. He's still selling with the same lies.
I say buy from Dan!
Tally HO!

Those are some really interesting stories I must admit. I do not sell much anymore as I got tired of all the sillyness I was putting myself through and I admit I am one of those people that get around to leaving feedback about once a week when I am selling. I now have mostly been selling seed of Worsleya and an occassional Griffinia (not aroids obviously) and when I do this it is in a large surge and so leave feedback for the dozen or so buyers once a week. Honestly, I could care less anymore if people leave feedback in return, but it just seems like such a SCAM to require that the buyer leave feedback first. It would be nice if ebay could figure this out better. Thanks for the stories....and the cup of coffee :o) Dan

Hi Dan,
Interesting post, and I must say it is one of my pet peeves also. I've bought a lot on ebay (too much!) and the majority of sellers do not leave feedback, such as the following:
333behappy
5170scottw
99centpinshop
african-plants
allstardist
annette8
bertramsblooms
betshoff
bmw_boi
boughtcheap
caldeal
cowboyflowerman
dmonlinesales
evokes 81
exjensen
foxproductions
garyoverton
gemma1535
green*sunshine
halfbuiltstars
hix406
imperial
jammer 1109
jolf-greenham
jr-stuff60
julia4537
kitcatgreen
koolf34
mayberry_treasures
mercury32
mishaguy
mom*2*riley
nm2nv
oldstreet
onlinesciencemall
patric7024
potato-rock
potz100
precious_pastimes
prettylinens
pudlenut
rick34
rockdonkey
rows1x
rrrjjlamb
serious coder
spannyeyes
sports_plus
stardrifting
stardrifting
susieb6427
the_shoe_guy!
twigpen
wellspring100
westeng77
westowlwitch
widenose-collectibles
yesterdaysbeginnings

I used to try and email every seller with something along the lines of 'received the xxx, I love it, it's great, thanks', but that didn't help get me any more feedback.

Another thing about feedback- don't assume with 100% feedback everything is fine- that is usually a 'blackmail seller' that will only leave feedback after they received a positive. I never trust the 100% seller!

You can also go to http://www.toolhaus.org/ to check out feedback- goes right to the negative or neutral feedback without you having to page through hundreds of other feedback.

Today I received 3 small plants that had newspaper around their leaves to protect them. Unfortunately newspaper was taped to the stem. I mean the tape was ON the stem! Ouch! Poor widdle plant!

Here is a link that might be useful: Toolhaus

Great Link.....never knew it existed!!! You are way, way, way too organized for me.....you can get treatment for that ya know ;o) Dan

Yeah, I was afraid someone would say that! I guess I hold grudges too long!
But I also try to buy from sellers that do leave feedback properly!

There is no reason ebay can't have something so you can check out a seller's negative feedback. It's ridiculous to page through multiple pages looking for it.

I've thought the same way for years dealing with Ebay. When selling I would leave a positive feedback as soon as the payment was made. If for some reason the buyer wasn't satisfied I would make good on the deal... either a refund with an apology or a replacement. There are things out of your control... shipping/handling, etc. I hate it when I pay for an item minutes after the auction end (PayPal)and do not recieve a feedback until I give a feedback.
Randy

Although I do agree with most of your points let me give you another point of view. I sell and buy quite a bit on Ebay and have had to resort to waiting to leave feedback. For the most part most buyers on Ebay are good people. But let me tell you about the customer who contacted me 3 weeks after his plant arrived and demanded a refund because his plant arrived dead? Why wasnt I contacted immediately upon arrival of the plant.

Or the guy who wanted another plant because the Alocasia came with one broken leaf? Those persons all received positive feedback when they made theyre payments but left negative feedback for rediculous claims. How does a seller protect themselves then??? Its true that these people are few and far between but it just takes one or two negative feedbacks to scar your reputation as a seller indefinetly.

Ive been at the other end of this feedback problem as well. I just recently won and paid for some auctions for some collectible figurines from France thru Ebay. I received the figurines and they were completely distroyed since the seller didnt pack the figurines appropriately. Now Im being held hostage for 9 items. The seller wants me to return the "pieces" of figurines and then he will refund my money. So that means I have to pay for shipping for the items to get to me then ship it back to france and then hope to get a refund???? Why bother. The figurines cost 38 euros and shipping was 24 euros??? Get a 12 euro refund????

Im not saying that with holding feedback is the right thing to do. Its obviously a system that needs to be fixed.

I once ordered some Arisaema tubers from a seller on ebay,it was one of those pre order auctions, where the seller did'nt really have the plants he was selling.I payed for them at the end of the auction as I always do.The seller told me they would be shipped on a specific date,so I waited for two months past the specified shipping date before I contacted the seller.He would not return my e-mails until I finally threatened to contact ebay and paypal. At that point the money was refunded to my paypal account without a single reply, appology,or anything from the seller.All this time that seller did'nt leave feedback for me either.
I was kind of mad at the time after waiting 2 months and 2 days for the item, but when it was over and my money was refunded I decided not to leave negative feedback for the "seller". Just chalked it up to experience and let it go.
I was wondering if "you" ever had an experience like this,"Dan".
garbird

In my opinion, ebay is staffed by idiots!
Several years ago, when attempting to execute a purchase, I found that my account had been hijacked and assigned to someone in another state. After correcting the account and making the purchase, I received a nasty email from ebay, accusing me of hijacking someone else's account. No explanation would satisfy them. They had confused someone's ebay name with my ISP screen name and refused to admit that it was their error. Needless to say, that was enough to convince me to take my business elsewhere.
Curiously, after I stopped loading the ebay website, the number of Spyware cookies dropped dramatically.

I don't consider the transaction complete until the buyer leaves feedback that they are happy with the product I sent.
If they aren't, I would expect them to contact me and let me know the problem before leaving negative feedback. It is a two way street. Both the buyer and seller have to work together to make a good transaction. I don't think just paying for an item makes a good customer, it's also how they handle any problems too.
Pam

there are lots of crazy people out there, I dont leave pos feedback till I get my feed back. it goes kinda like this, if I sell a plant, and a leaf breaks in shipping, then you leave me a Neg feedback because of lack of medication then guess what, you get a Neg too. I sell salvia divinorum, and i had a buyer, buy a 12 in plant for $24 and harvested 4 of the biggest leaves 3/4 of the plants total leaf area, then complined he didnt get high, and the plant wasent growing, buyers can afford to get Neg feedbacks here and there but, as a seller you cant.