Steve,

I think knowledge is like anything else. If you're around the info, it seems easier. If you're not, then you need to see if you can find it. Sometimes it's a challenge but over the last few years, the exchange of information has become much easier and quicker as people migrate to those things in life that interest them.

There are a handful of sources on and off line that are available. If you search the words books, source, or sources in this forum, you'll discover them in existing threads. If you haven't read the FAQ for this forum, please check it out - it is far from "impossible" to find the names you need. On the contrary, it is easier now then it ever was.

In the case of Asian vegetables and your interest in them, it sounds like you're doing just fine and it is best to not rely on one source for information.

If you like (Brassica juncea) also known as Chinese Mustard Cabbage or Gai Choy, and you like Choy Sum which is a common name for a few Chinese Leaf Cabbages which are different species of the same genus (Brassica) - then you should definitely try Gai Lan (Brassica alboglabra). I'm sure everyone here will agree, since many of us who frequent this forum were raised eating these vegetables.

"Choy" simply means "vegetable". "Bok" means "white". So it's very generic.

Many of us have been using the plant name database you refer to for a while here.

I think part of your challenge is that you are much less likely to find Asian vegetables grouped by region which is what you're asking for. Is there any particular reason your interest is so specific? Did someone of Hmong origin introduce you to these or is this your nationality? Your best bet would be to visit that region of the world and get seeds. Otherwise, you're already getting seeds from the best Asian specific seed sources in the US. If you are near a Vietnamese or Thai grocer, there is a chance they may carry seeds of the Hmong region.

The reason your variety of bok choy is more tender could be because Shanghai Bok Choy tolerates heat and cold more so than other varieties which can lead to it being less tender. And just about anyone who grew up with any bok choy knows to eat it when the flower buds have just formed.

Are you looking for information on specific vegetables? or only all vegetables from the Hmong region?

Stumbled onto your post at the Vegetable Forum, I understand now your particular interest... ;)

I think that there's a lot that could be done with Hmong vegetables. In fact, and this might be what you are saying Violet, there may ALREADY have been a lot done just by other groups of Asians.

In other words, our heirloom bok choy, so different from the other varieties I see in the US, may not be at all uncommon in Chinese gardens. In time, it may become a little more standardized, hybrids developed, and its popularity will grow here. Perhaps, it is already here and simply passing as a choy sum. (I'll need to get a picture of it this year so that you all can see.)

We have tried yu choy and been a little disappointed because of coarseness. The same is true with the gai lan that I've grown. We buy gai lan at the markets and enjoy it - I have been told that they get it from Hawaii.

Our climate, arid West, isn't very conducive to growing Asian greens and that may be the problem. Or, we simply haven't been fortunate in selecting a good variety. It is my hope that I will be able to come up varieties of both yu choy and gai lan at some time that are appropriate for this semi-desert location.

Steve

Steve,

I have a feeling they are not as isolated as you may perceive them to be. But if you're not near a large Hmong community, then of course demand will be much lower so you won't see them as much. I'm sure there are methods in your area which you can use to help grow what you're wanting, but most of what you're wanting does prefer cooler temperatures. Do you try to grow them in shade? What time of year do you plant? What is a good variety for some, isn't for others simply because of climate.

I assume you save seeds. Have you considered trading seeds?

Violet, there are very few Hmong folks here. They all garden and we've visited just about every one. Should make a greater effort to find these things but taking trips during the growing season is out. (How's that for limiting research?)

We tried the gai lan in a more shady area but it didn't quite do the "trick." I suppose that if I really wanted to get serious (maybe . . . sounds like fun) - I would put up a shade house. Hmmmm!?!

Growing problem is not just fairly high daytime temps but DRY conditions and low temperatures overnight. The growing season comes to an end - sharply, shall we say? I've got sweet onions planting to do in late August for overwintering and this year I'll try greens. Chinese cabbage last year has bolted immediately to seed now (nice that it survived the Winter).

We do indeed save seeds and there has been a few passing between us and Hmong folks in other locations. That's how we got that gai choy 15 or 20 years ago.

Climate, yeah, that's the thing.

Steve

I haven't done much research on shade houses simply because most gardeners have the opposite problem that you do. I do believe that you can grow most of what your discussing if the plant is protected from the sun on the south side and you really plan ahead to take advantage of optimum temperature conditions.

When I asked about trading seeds, I meant trading seeds here via the exchange page at this particular forum and via the seed exchange forum as well... This way you are not limited to the physical community in your location. ;)

Okay, thanks Violet - I have posted a want list on the exchange page. "Wanting yu choy, gai lan, and Chinese cabbage varieties suitable for an arid climate."

Just so you know that I'm not pathetically struggling to gain access to the known while avoiding the risk of trying something new - - Here are some new things we are trying this year and have either started or will soon plant:

a couple varieties of Chinese Cabbage (trying again & again & again),
a flowering Chinese Cabbage - Shuka,
a couple new varieties of Bok Choy,
and a wrapped heart mustard - Kekkyu Takana

The Chinese cabbage I planted last year and that survived the Winter before bolting - - we brought the flower shoots home yesterday. Wonderfully tender and sweet!

I may be on to something! If I can't grow good heads thru the growing season, plant seed late and enjoy the flowering shoots in the Spring.

May save some of the Shuka seed to see if that shows the same hardiness. We had a mild Winter with only a few days the temperatures dropped below zero. Each Spring there are a few overlooked bok choy and mustard plants that have survived. They are badly frost burned and not worth harvesting. Hadn't occurred to me that Chinese cabbage would be hardier.

Steve

>Hadn't occurred to me that Chinese cabbage would be hardier.

You know us humans... always trying to push the boundaries of nature... And seed companies.... well, that's a whole other topic.