My interests are much like yours, Dean. I have a book on my want list which may interest you also (Oriental Vegetables: The Complete Guide for the Gardening Cook). See the link below.

My experiences eating in some of the better Chinese restaurants have given me a taste for gai lan, yu choy and ong choy, whereas the less restaurants usually have only bok choy (which is good) and American broccoli. One restaurant I frequent has baby bok choy which is so small it is served whole. There is a lot to explore in this area.

Jim

Here is a link that might be useful: Oriental Vegetables Book

Hey, Jim; I had just finished ordering that book (with some other basic gardening books) when I saw your post. I guess I couldn't wait for responses (needed to get an order placed-so I can start doing some reading in the few weeks I have before I move) and I wasn't sure how much traffic this forum has.

I don't have any experience with eating at fine Chinese restaurants but have stumbled upon pak choi (bok choy? pak choy? I've seen it spelled so many ways- maybe they are all slightly different varieties) and tat soi at farmer's markets. I do love green veggies.

Hopefully, this book will give me some help on deciding what to grow and how. I'll let you know what I think when I have a chance to read it.

Just as I thought. We're on the same frequency.

That does sound like a good book. It crosses the boundary between growing and cooking. I'll be interested to have your opinion of it.

So far as the names are concerned, there are lots of variations due to the transliteration from Chinese to English. Pak/bok, choy/choi, tofu/dofu, etc. Not to mention the differences between Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Thai, etc. As you browse this forum you will see that a large part of it is devoted to such discussions.

Keep checking in here. Let us know how things go for you in the garden and the kitchen.

Jim

Dean, I think you'll enjoy Asian greens - I sure do. Of course, I've always liked broccoli, cabbage, and spinach and, I wouldn't go so far as to say - brussel sprouts.

Pak choi and bok choy are the same things. I've found it fun going to Wikipedia and trying to get a handle on the scientific names and then thinking of how I might explore similar and different vegetables (you remember, "compare and contrast").

What you will find in your garden is that some varieties will do better than others. Since gardening is getting your hands on, and taking responsibility for, life - timing is everything. (Darn these cliches ;o)

Tatsoi and gai lan have not done well in my garden even tho' I've grown a number of related bok choys over many years. Generally, mustards have also done fine for me. I was looking back in an old garden journal and reading how I'd given up, after repeated tries, on growing Chinese Cabbage in the Spring so I decided to give it a try in the Autumn. Older and wiser, I remember how I failed repeatedly at that. Finally, and I mean finally - as of last year, I discovered that I could grow Spring-time Chinese Cabbage in my hoop house. Of course, I had the hoop house 4 years before I thought to plant Chinese Cabbage.

You see, I probably couldn't live in a much worse climate for growing Asian greens - hot and dry here with cool night-time temperatures  the Wild West. Plant too early and things get stressed from the cold and won't grow much before bolting to seed. Plant too late and they get heat-stressed and bolt to seed.

One thing I've learned is to use the bok choy both while young and then use the flowering stalk. If you plant it at the right time, even baby bok choy will grow a nice size flowering stalk. It is very tender and sweet - I mean, after all, you wouldn't expect the broccoli leaves to be good for dinner even tho' you could be sure the flower buds would be tasty.

Again this season, the hoop house is filled with Asian greens - 13 with 4 or 5 of them, bok choys (not bad for 200 square feet). We have a few more things but they will just need to wait another week or so and we'll plant them in the garden. Further, many of those plants in the hoop house will be transplanted to the garden - not all, the Chinese Cabbage isn't going out there. Then we will repeatedly sow in the garden the seed of those varieties that will be okay outdoors. Take a little break in the heat of Summer and then in late August, sow again.

I wish you the best of luck and good growing conditions. And, even if things don't turn out perfectly, you probably can find ways to make them work.

Steve

Oriental Vegetables:
The Complete Guide for the Gardening Cook
by Joy Larkcom

Grow Your Own Chinese Vegetables
by Geri Harrington

Better Vegetable Gardens the Chinese Way:
Peter Chan's Raised-Bed System
by Peter Chan

All are excellent, but the best one is:
Asian Herbs and Vegetables
by Penny Woodward

Violet, I remember when Peter Chan's book came out. I guess that the original edition was in '78. It had a kind of reassuring influence on my gardening approach. I decided that what I was doing in the garden made sense - East to West.

I still have a 1975 copy of Organic Gardening with an article on French Intensive techniques. The matrix planting scheme was my first exposure to that idea. But, despite all the good ideas that I could see with French Intensive, my gardens were large and I just couldn't see putting in all that work (even tho' I was still young and the shovel wasn't yet seen as my enemy :o). Peter Chan helped me understand that I wasn't off-base.

Organic Gardening had some articles on Peter Chan's approach but I can no longer find those issues. However, Mother Earth News is so good about putting old articles on the 'net. You can look at an article on Chinese raised beds linked below.

Steve

Here is a link that might be useful: Mother's

Got to love Brussels. STeam them just short of done. A few minutes before the Brussels get to that point, saute crushed garlic, red pepper flakes, and some anchovies in evoo. Add the Brussels and stir constantly till Brussels are nice and coated and done cooking. Love it. I do this with broccoli as well.

What's your favorite way to grow all that bok choy you're growing?

Violet, Thanks for the book suggestions.

Dean,

Here is one website for [url=http://www.evergreenseeds.com/vegetableseeds.html]asian vegetables[/url], with many greens, as well as other Asian vegetables and herbs. And here is a source for [url=http://rareseeds.com/seeds/Chefs-Choice-Mixed-Greens/Siamese-Dragon-Stir-Fry-Mix]a mix of Asian greens[/url] that I plant every year, and have discovered new items in there, later finding out what they were and ordering them separately. I had some of these growing well into January this year!

Bok choy is my favorite as far as versatility and easy of growing. Napa cabbage has a tendency to bolt if planted in the spring, and there is a cold snap, so I only plant that in fall, but I have never had this problem with bok choy. Tatsoi is also prone to bolting in my area. Kohlrabi is another vegetable I grow for oriental use - super easy to grow, and makes great stir-fries, being very crispy. Bok choy and kohlrabi are also very early veggies, some being ready in 42 days, even earlier if grown to a small size, as with "baby" bok choy.

Speaking of brussels sprouts, one way to avoid overcooking them is to slice them thin, then toss them for just a few minutes in the seasonings. One of my favorites is some butter, poppy seeds, lemon zest, and a little lemon juice. My favorite oriental combo, for this and other greens, is some garlic, nam prik pao, and some fish suace - great with any SE Asian menu!

Good luck with your new garden!

Dave

Dave,

I have been putting together a list of asian veg. seeds to order and am planning to order from Evergreen and Baker Creek Heirlooms (not all asian) in the next few days. I was kind of hoping I'd get that book I ordered before ordering the seeds; but may not have time to wait.

I definitely will be planting some bok choy (baby and regular). I've never tried kohlrabi for some reason.

I'll have to try making brussels sprouts that way. As for asian stir fry combos, I haven't been very adventurous yet, using some type of combo of garlic, ginger, soy sauce (actually wheat-free tamari), sesame oil, red pepper flakes and five-spice powder all the time.

When I have my own ready supply of asian veggie ingredients, I'll have to (and want to) broaden my horizons. I have found though that many asian condiments (or any condiments period) tend to have wheat in them, and I am working towards removing grain from my diet.

I'll have to look into nam prik pao. What kind of flavor does it impart?

Thanks.

Hi, Dean
I live in the same zone as you are. You should not have much problem of growing asian Veggies, especially Bok choi. However, some Bok choi are good for pickling and some good for stir frying. It all comes down to the texture and taste. I recommand MeiQing choi. It is hybrid baby Bak choi type and is very easy to grow, very slow to bolt. The taste is sweet after cooking.
Kailian ( chinese broccoli) is another easy veggie to grow. It likes cool temp. and after the main stem is cut, more sides will grow and you will have continues supply of Kailain stem with flower on it. You can stir fry it with some garlic and salt with/without Oyster sauce on top. if you want to cut down the oil, you can just boil or steam it.
Have you try the pea tips? Pea grows will in our zone. Any pea with good leave will do. It tastes very good.

I have extra chinese cucumber seeds directly from China , if you want to try, send me SASE, I will share some with you.

I have varieties of asian veggie seeds left for this year( lufa, Malarba spinach, Kailian, chinese eggplant...)If anyone is interested, we can trade.

Good luck

olympia gardener,

Thanks for the good info. I'll make sure I add that variety of bok choi to my list and already had chinese broccoli on there.

Thanks for the offer on the cucumber seeds; but I'm not much of a fan of cucumbers in general. Are chinese cucumbers distinctly different in taste than the typical cucumber?

By pea tips, are you referring to snow peas? Sorry I'm not sure what you mean. Could you clarify? Thanks again.

Dean, we have this again and again thru the growing season. It varies by addition of things like broccoli and carrots. Chinese cabbage or western cabbage can be substituted for the bok choy. Not in the least difficult and you should know that my Asian wife doesn't see the need for cornstarch but I like it because it helps hold the liquid on the veggies & meat.

Oh, and we also grow what we call "the Russian radish." It is a hairless leaf white radish that we can cut up (entire plant) with the other veggies. They are much the same as the Lo Bok radish which is just as suitable but small, round and quick-growing. We save seed from one or 2 plants each year.

a little lean beef or chicken, sliced thin
2 teaspoons cornstarch
1 Tablespoon soy sauce
1 T vinegar
1/2 t ginger, minced

Stir together cornstarch, soy sauce, vinegar and ginger in a bowl. Add meat and toss. Marinate at least 15 minutes. In a large pan, heat a little oil very hot. Stir fry meat until almost cooked. Add:

1 clove garlic, minced
2 heads bok choy, sliced
3 green onions, sliced

Stir fry for about 2 minutes. Add:

1/2 cup broth or water
1 T soy sauce
1 t sugar

Heat to boiling, serve over rice.

Dean,

Nam prik pao is a Thai roasted chili sauce, which can be bought, but the flavor is nowhere what the homemade is like. Most versions have dried shrimp, tamarind, and sugar, making them sweet and sour, as well as distinctly Thai tasting, with the dried shrimp. I figure I can add these separately, if I want them in a dish, and the simplified version I make is usable with Chinese, and many other foods as well, since it is simply caramelized garlic, shallots, and hot peppers. A thermometer is essential, to prevent burning, as the temp. has to be brought close to, butnot up to, the burning point of the sugars in the foods, giving it the roasted/toasted flavor and aroma.

NAM PRIK PAO

4 oz shallots; peeled
2 oz garlic; peeled
1-1 1/2 oz chile peppers; (see note)
1 cup(s) oil
1/4 cup(s) oil; optional
1 tsp salt; optional

A. Place garlic in food processor and chop fine - 1/8" or less. Add shallots and pulse until chopped fine. Remove about 2/3 of the mix to an 8" saute pan, returning any large pieces that may be left behind. Add the whole chiles, if used, then the oil, and process until the chiles are finely chopped, about 2 min. (If using crushed peppers add directly to pan). Scrape into pan and add 1/4c oil + salt if using more as a condiment than an ingredient in Thai food.

B. Mix well and place pan over medium heat. Cook, stirring often, until temp. reaches around 270º, then stir constantly and scrape pan bottom, until temp reaches 290º. Immediately scrape into a metal bowl and let cool.

Note: Use the maximum oil and the salt to make a more liquidy, condiment type sauce. Omit the salt and use 1 c oil for a paste, for cooking with. For the peppers, use dried superthai (if growing at home), whole sanaam (cheapest from myspicer.com) or crushed 40k pakistan pepper from Penzey's Spices.

Hi, Dean

The pea tip I have mentioned on my last post is the tip of the snow pea or sugar pea. It is high prized gourment type of asia green. if you go to supermarket, it costs around $4-$5/lb. It taste sweet with hint of asparagus after cooked. you can use it as salad green as well. But it has be to picked very young so it is tender.
Chinese cucumber tastes a little different than U.S. ones. The texture is a little more crunch, flavor is sweeter and you don't have to peel the skin off.

There was a good thread regarding pea tips or pea shoots on this forum not too long ago (maybe last fall) which you can find by searching. They are called tips or shoots so as not to confuse them with sprouts, which is something different. they are a special delicacy.

Jim

The pea tip sounds good. I like snow peas and like asparagus. So, basically it's just the snow pea picked before it turns into a pod or it's a different part of the plant? I guess I'll check out that other thread.

Good thread, thanks for the link digit.

peperhead, you need to use intstead of [] when posting links.

Good to see so many things being discussed!

Thanks for the info.. Good to know someone had interested in pea tips too. I just joined this website last month so I missed it.

It is the tip of the pea plant not the pea pod. Pick them before it starts flower. Only pick the very top of ~2 inch of the tip. If it does not break away easy, it is to old to eat.

Beside pea tips, tender pumpkin tips can be cooked and eaten too. But you have to peel the skin off.

I've been trying to do some research on companion planting with asian vegetables. I'm planning my garden next year and I don't want to use any pesticides. I know there is a chart for all the normal vegetables for companion planting but is there one for asian vegetables?