Agreed. Scientists tell us this area was once under an imense glacier.

The climate has changed quite a bit since then.

Yep. The climate is always changing and has been for thousands of years. Parts of the world that where lush and green are now deserts or covered in ice.

Exxxxactly. 'Climate change' may be the new terminology for what we have *been* calling 'evolution'. ;-)

Centurion, you are right about the climate having changed a great deal over long periods of time, but you're off with that bit about a giant glacier...

Western North America all the way up into Alaska was NOT under glaciers during the last ice age, only alpine areas had these features (similar to what you now see in Glacier National Park in Montana).

Eastern North America was different, however, with a large continental ice sheet akin to what now covers Greenland.

Last night it snowed here in East Mesa, Stayed on our cars for a few hours. Local temps were in the low 30's. Yet the national weather service says we had a low temp of 40 degrees. They show much lower temps as the current temp and then post much higher temps as the recorded low on a daily basis.

Thisisme, you are so right about the temps. I thought all my temp gauges were off. I consistently show different temps too.

As for climate change, I certainly hope we get colder in the valley. Can't stand the 100's in the spring, summer and fall. Enjoy the coolness while we have it.

It's only going to get hotter and drier here. All you deniers can go argue with the scientists.

Here is a link that might be useful: Drier - and hotter

I got to get in on this one!
It has been pretty cold the last three days, up until then it was pretty nice. The apricot tree and plum was starting to really bud due to the warmth which was way too early, hopefully the snow and cold will keep them at bay. We didn't get any snow till about 4:30 pm(just rain) then it hit like no ones business. It came down in big old flakes and didnt stop. The neighborhood kids were out making snowmen. We have never had snow this late in the season, never!
I started my veggie seedlings which are on top of the refer trying to stay warm, prior to this weather I was able to put them in the warm sun. hope they make it or the garden will be late.
As for the temps being off, have any of you noticed on your electric bill ,were it states the avg temp for the month? I don't know where they get that info, (summer or winter) but I swear it must be from another state. Avg temp for Aug 75 d. yeh right!

All the proponents of Man Made Global Climate Change were discredited in Climate Gate One and Climate Gate Two. All the leading Climate Scientists spoke openly about faking the whole thing. There is little need to argue about. They admitted it. If it weren't for there being so much money to be gained for scientists who are proponents of MMGCC it would be laughed out of academia. Even so they propose spending more than 500 TRILLION DOLLARS to fix it while their own figures show it would only affect temperature by a few tenths of one degree. The reason for that is that man has so little influence over our constantly changing climate. Sure it may get hotter and it may get colder but the Sun and the Earths Oceans and Volcano's and the Earths orbit and tilting axis have so much more influence on climate change that man is only along for the ride.

This reminds me of March '06. We attended a wedding in Cave Creek in weather that was freezing cold, and it snowed that day.

This post was edited by haname on Thu, Feb 21, 13 at 17:42

From the article below: "So, what do we have? On one side, we have scientists kicking around ideas, criticizing each other, disagreeing, getting angry, and changing their views as new information comes to light �" all in a valiant effort to create a massive document summarizing complex scientific issues on which there is broad consensus but disagreement on minor issues. The areas of disagreement, by the way, are on the degree to which man is causing the climate to change �" not on whether itâÂÂs happening or whether man is the cause.

On the other side of the debate, we have a massive denial machine intent on distorting anything that doesnâÂÂt fit their worldview �" a Borg-like monstrosity that believes everyone who disagrees with them is just as dogmatic and closed-minded as they are."

As a now-and-then, not-even-good gardener, I enjoy the science of it all. Like what a seed is made of, the why - and the how - it germinates. But then, maybe some little garden fairy flits by and sprinkles some magic dust over it.

Here is a link that might be useful: Climategate? Not really.

No, I don't think so. One the one side you have all of academia being paid to promote the idea of man made global warming. While on the other side you have a small number of people who are refusing to accept the crap they are shoveling who are not getting paid a single cent for standing up to them. By the way I can post plenty of links too. Just because someone who is getting paid to say something say it does not mean that its true.

^ That is an absurd characterization --> If you disagree with me, you must be corrupt/paid to lie. Really??

Many/most of the climatologists arguing pro-anthropomorphic climate change (and that would be the vast majority) are academics of some manner, while a substantial percentage of the relatively small number of skeptics are industrial consultants. I don't care who is right, radical climate change is upon us, and it would behoove us all to become far better stewards of our planet.

In the 70's it was "our earth is cooling and we are heading for another ice age."
In the 90's it became "Global Warming."
Now it's called "climate change." (Gotta hand it to em...this new term has both bases covered).

And now they're also calling it "settled science" to squelch opposing views.

Meanwhile Al Gore and his cronies are flying all over the world in private jets reaping hundreds of millions of dollars convincing governments to invest hundreds of Billions of dollars on largely unproven "green energy" projects which have to be heavily subsidized to appear effective.

This would be funny if it weren't so tragic.

By the way. I have heard and read of climatologists being fired for not espousing MMGCC. I HAVE HEARD THEM SAY âÂÂThere are no governmental grants/no funding for anyone who does not promote MMGCC.â I did not say it just to be saying it. ThatâÂÂs what I have heard on the news.

Anyone who has ever been in a lawsuit or been to court knows that opinions are bought and sold. The money goes to those who will confirm MMGCC. Those who don't, don't have jobs. Instead they blog and the news sometimes picks it up.

Climate Gate one and Two are real no matter how someone spins it. When you read the emails and they openly discuss falsifying data. I don't care what anyone else says. I can read. I will believe my own eyes over any talking head no matter how they twist it. I know what "is" is. I don't need someone else to explain away the obvious.

When climatologists write in their emails to each other that they are falsifying all their data. I believe them more than when they speak in public for a fee and say the data is all true. You see; I believe a personâÂÂs true character is based upon what they do and say when they believe no one can see or hear them. Not by what they say when everyone is watching.

From all I have ever heard the earth is still much cooler now that it has been through most of the last 10,000 years. Look at the fossil record. Massive amounts of evidence that tropical plants have grown all over the globe supporting massive mammals. Places that are far to cold now for them to live. There are parts of Africa that were lush and green during the peak of the Roman and Egyptian empires that are desert wastelands now. In fact they have been for the last 1100-1200 years. Did man cause it back then? The earthâÂÂs climate has always been changing.

To this day no one has been able to adequately explain to me how global climate change on earth is caused by man. While scientists say mars and all the other planets in the system have been going through the same warming trend. Yet there are no men living on any of the other planets.

This all reminds of Chicken Little. "The sky is falling the sky is falling!!!"