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risingtiger

good wind break tree in the desert

risingtiger
10 years ago

I'm looking for a great evergreen windbreak that will run up the west side of the edible landscaping. I live in zone 6 at about 5500 feet in the high deserts above the Grand Canyon. The soil is sandy and slightly alkaline and we get some dry winds coming through. Any ideas out there about a good tree that would fit the bill?

I was hoping I could have Arizona Cypress, but indeed I think this winter was just a tad bit too cold for them. I would go with some cultivar of Rocky Mountain Juniper, but I don't know of any that will get to 25' plus--and they tend to grow slowly.

I'm considering both the Eastern Red Cedar and the giant arborvitae (green giant thuja, etc). Has anybody had any experience with either of these trees in a fairly harsh desert climate?

Comments (11)

  • violetwest
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Arizona Cypress would have been my first thought. What about other types of pine trees (don't know about other varieties)?

  • fabaceae_native
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I'm sure you've gotten a load of ideas from the links Fascist Nation posted...

    But since I'm in a similar climate, I'd like to comment on what you said above:

    First, I think AZ Cypress is a good choice, and they are only tender when small. This has been a very mild winter throughout the Southwestern US, and AZ Cypress has withstood much colder winters (to -23F) here where I live.

    Rocky Mt Junipers can grow much taller than 25 feet, at least the wild ones can - not sure about the named cultivars, or about the rate of growth.

    Please don't consider arborvitae -- they will need much more water, are short lived in arid climates and start looking really ugly as they die from the inside out, and well, I just despise them...

    Eastern red cedar might do OK, but why grow an Eastern juniper species when you have so many to choose from that are native to your area?

    Bottom line in this climate though, is that few of the evergreens are very fast growing, unless they are in good soil with lots of water.

    Your best bet is to buy those dug up mature native trees such as junipers, pinyons, and ponderosas that they sell on the roadside (at least here in NM they do). You'll lose a few since they are transplants, they're a tad pricey, but you'll be getting an instant 10 foot windbreak. Or, you might consider some wall/fencing idea with vines and shrubs up against.

  • risingtiger
    Original Author
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thank you Fascist_Nation and fabaceae_native for your posts. Still digesting some of those articles. I have plenty of water, but why use it when you don't have to. The river drys up sooner than ever before, so considering hardy and less thirsty plants is where my head is at. Thats why I planted Arizona Cypress.

    These AZ Cypress are growing in my area in various people's yards and seem to be doing well. But mine seem to be just tanking hard core. Some trees (planted from three gallon pots) were brittle and dead within 3 months (even though they received ample water). And I don't think they got over watered -- especially considering that they are planted in very sandy soil. The ones that are alive are brown and with excessive foliage having dyed off. I assumed it was the cold, but maybe not. I planted some in the summer and the exact same thing happened (one was dead before the cold ever set in and the others had most its foliage turn brittle).

    I've got other things planted in my soil, most of which are thriving. Jujubee trees are loving it, same with some apple trees, elderberries, hawthorne, pine trees, chinese pistache, locust, almonds and various bushes. The AZ Cypress just aren't doing well.

    fabaceae_native, you say your AZ Cypress did OK, even getting down to -23? I don't get that cold here. Where was your source for the trees and what cultivar did you plant? Maybe I just have the wrong strain.

  • Fascist_Nation
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    The best trees are the ones growing natively in your area. Once established they require ZERO care except in the most severe droughts. But some are understory trees at least when young meaning they start out under a "nurse" tree that provides some shade, increased humidity and wind protection.

    When you take a tree out of the pot and plant it out by its lonesome that can be a problem. I am not sure what you can do about that beyond possibly erecting a temporary western shade structure or planting a tiered screen of groundcover, shrubs, trees.

    If you buy trees at a nursery you often find them under a shade tree. They are conditioned to that environment and need to be hardened off by gradually increasing their sun exposure over a period of 2 weeks before transplanting.

    Secondly, they are growing in a pot, then find themselves in the ground. Two very different soil conditions. In a container the soil is rapidly draining and the nursery fertilizes it periodically to replace the nutrients that are washed out. Controlled waterings. While your area is also rapidly draining it likely is poor in carbon and maybe nitrogen. It may be high in salt and pH.

    "were brittle and dead within 3 months (even though they received ample water). And I don't think they got over watered -- especially considering that they are planted in very sandy soil."

    Sounds like under watering to me or root rot from over watering or lack of root development (not likely since they haven't blown over---unless you stake them). Could also be root disease like nematodes. Again natives are resistant to such things. How did you determine "ample?"

    "The ones that are alive are brown and with excessive foliage having dyed off. I assumed it was the cold, but maybe not. I planted some in the summer and the exact same thing happened (one was dead before the cold ever set in and the others had most its foliage turn brittle)."

    Sure sounds like dessication or lack of water uptake/availability to me. Young plants need to be watered frequently to a depth of 3 feet until roots are established. Sandy soil so you must water frequently, but most water applied goes straight down fast and doesn't spread out. Additionally at 5,500 feet evaporation is increased as is solar intensity. Add dry winds. Is there a surface mulch? A rock mulch might help to raise surface temp, cut evaporation and block competing weeds.

    What kind of trees natively grow in the area? What kind of successful non-natives do you see and how are they cared for?

    Hopefully your trees were planted at an appropriate depth in the pot and then in the ground? Hopefully the roots weren't circling the pot at the time of planting or were cut or straitened out? I would carefully excavate the dead ones and examine the roots for formation, planting depth and galls/knots. As I linked your local Co. Exchange agent or MGs (and the incredible Arboreum) are more familiar with your situation and can advise and diagnose. A certified arborist landscaper may prove cheaper in the long run to plan and plant.

    This post was edited by Fascist_Nation on Thu, Apr 3, 14 at 14:57

  • v8vega
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I would mulch the young trees real heavy. This has helped me out with evaporation, root protection from the cold, & soil improvement on my property. Keep in eye out for gophers & mice under the mulch. Also, keep the mulch off the trunk. Use very coarse material so the roots can breath & water can find it's way through the mulch to the ground. Good luck.

  • risingtiger
    Original Author
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Fascist_Nation,

    great questions and pointers. I did mulch these trees quite heaviliy -- about 4 inches (compost and then wood chips). Since the soil is very sandy I have been watering frequently. Initially, I watered every 3 days for 1.5 hours via Netafim inline drippers (2 lines spaced in a row about 8 inches from stem/trunk).

    Coming from the nursery, the trees' foliage was very full and rich -- almost too much so. There seemed to be an excessive amount of growth for the small 3 gal pot the roots were in.

    One potential problem a local botanist brought up was that disparate soil types was to blame -- that the rich black soil encasing the tree's roots was too dissimilar to the sand and therefore water resisted moving into the root zone, instead draining straight down. It actually makes sense. That smooth side wall of soil created by a planting pot becomes a bit of a barrier.

    So, it seems very possible that the combined effects of the trees being too conditioned (babied) in the nursery, the disparate soil types and the stark/harsh realities of my soil and climate just shocked them too far and they couldn't recover.

    Eastern Red Cedars are growing wild about 30 miles away in Cedar Breaks -- a higher, wetter area (I know probably still not native, but wild growing nonetheless). I think I've seen Arizona Cypress growing wild in Zion National Park (only 10 miles away), but I haven't verified. Rocky Mountain Juniper and Pinyon are the predominant tree/shrub. Freemont Cottonwoods are growing absolutely amazingly in the washes/creeks everywhere--magnificent trees and water guzzlers.

    I've got all the trees mentioned above planted on my place (excepting the Eastern Red Cedars). Along with non natives. Most all my trees are thriving. The almond is out of control. Gravenstein apple trees grew 18 inches last year. Locust is vital and healthy (though not growing super fast). The Jujubees are just tenacious little ba#$%tards, I love em. Beautiful rich foliage with not a speck of wilt or disease on them. Ash, Pistache and Hawthornes are all holding there own (though not growing fast).

    I've mulched all my trees with compost and then 3-4 inches of wood chips.

    After hearing all your comments I'm feeling less inclined of either Eastern Red Cedar or Arborvitae. They would be difficult to grow (especially the later) and no advantage over native choices -- not to mention water use. The Arizona Cypress really does seem to be THE tree for this purpose.

    Perhaps I'll spot out various of the trees growing wild and transplant them (obviously not in the park), or buy them bare root and small to minimize the shock factor.

    Anybody know of a good source for the AZ Cypress? A nursery in the southwest that will deliver and are growing cultivars as original to the native as possible.

  • v8vega
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I bought two AZ. Cedars off ebay. They are about 20" tall or so. I put them in pots & it took them around 6 months to start growing.
    I'm now concerned about planting them on the property because of the threat of Cedar-Apple Rust.

  • cold_weather_is_evil
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    This is a 12 year old Aleppo pine that was once a Christmas tree that was 6 feet tall including the pot. Now it's about 28 to 30 feet tall. It's been trimmed to walk under height but otherwise it would happily tent all the way to the ground. It's sitting in a plastic-underlined gravel yard and has never been watered outside of it's first year in the ground.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Arizona Pines

    This post was edited by cold_weather_is_evil on Fri, Apr 4, 14 at 16:18

  • risingtiger
    Original Author
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    The worst tree for the Cedar-Apple rust is the Eastern Red Cedar, though the AZ Cypress may still carry the disease. If you live in a dry climate the Cedar-Apple rust problem is dramatically reduced, unless perhaps you trees are getting exposed to sprinklers regularly.

  • v8vega
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Yeah, that's what I've been told. There are other Cedars in my area that I can't do anything about anyway, so I'm going to plant mine & keep an eye on them.
    It's dry down there, but the Monsoon humidity is much higher than here in Phoenix.

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