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erik777_gw

Advice about possible small tree for shaded area

Erik777
11 years ago

So I have an area in my backyard that sits beneath a very high block wall towards the south. In the dead of winter, this area is entirely in the shade of the wall at ground level. I actually went out on the winter solstice and marked it off and then built my raised beds starting at that point since I knew they'd get little to no sun during prime season.

You can see in the picture below, the big open area to the back left. My goal is to put a small uncovered patio with table in that area and have small (10-15 feet high) tree tucked in the corner that could be "shaped" to hang over the patio area.

I imagine that once the tree gets pretty well established, the shade won't be an issue, so maybe I start it somewhere else in a big container and then transplant? Any advice on what might do well out there? Due to some other discussions on this forum, I'm really interested in giving a fig tree a try. I'm also intrigued by the henna plant. Not sure if either of those would do well? Texas Mountain Laurel seems to be doing really well in my yard but I'd like to mix it up a bit. I also have a plumeria cutting that I took from a friend in CA that I'm currently trying to nurse back to life.

I prefer something that is either fruit producing or smells good. There's also a pool to the left of the fence so I also don't want something that's going to drop a lot of leaves and such, which is also why I want to "shape" the tree away from the pool area.

Any tips would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks!

Comments (18)

  • greyongray
    11 years ago

    If you are willing to prune to keep the small size, then a fig or many other fruit trees would work for you. They are not naturally small (unless you get a dwarf) but can be kept at a small size.

  • Erik777
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    Thanks for the response. I don't know that I've actually ever seen a fig tree in real life. I tried looking up some google images for one and as far as I can tell...they seem to grow more like a big bush than a typical tree with a one trunk and foliage starting higher up on the trunk.
    Is that correct?
    If that's the case, it doesn't really fit with what I want for that area.
    Maybe I'll just go with another Texas Mountain Laurel since it fits the bill for exactly what I'm looking for. Was just hoping to mix it up a bit. I'll have to find another place in the yard for a fig.

  • Juttah
    11 years ago

    Why stick with the same old same old? There are lots of underused smaller trees, many of them native, that would work well in your area.

    I think winter shade won't be that big of an issue, since most trees are dormant (or relatively so) in the winter. Plus it doesn't stay shady for very long around here.

    You'll want a clean tree, or at minimum a tree that only drops stuff once a year, since it'll be near a patio/pool. Avoid fruits that may attract birds and their droppings. Otherwise, look for trees that are recommended near patios - there are many types to choose from, and most of them will grow faster than a Texas Mountain Laurel! Below's a link to get you started....

    Here is a link that might be useful: Small desert trees

  • tomatofreak
    11 years ago

    "I don't know that I've actually ever seen a fig tree in real life. I tried looking up some google images for one and as far as I can tell...they seem to grow more like a big bush than a typical tree with a one trunk and foliage starting higher up on the trunk."

    Wrong! Figs are usually wildly branched and sprawl widely. I highly recommend figs for people who love the fruit, but not for a decorative tree near a patio or pool.

    Have you given any thought to a citrus? Lots of 'em would meet your size requirements and a plus would be oranges, lemons or limes. Evergreen, to boot.

  • Pagancat
    11 years ago

    All right, I'm confused. Looking at the picture above, you're thinking about putting the tree in the upper right hand corner, is that right?

    It's true that the TX mountain laurels are slow growing and that they can get a worm that eats a lot of their leaves. They are gorgeous, though, and there is a cultivar "Silver Peso" that has less problems with the worm. It's one of my favorite trees.

    Two trees on Juttah's link are my faves: the 'Screwbean Mesquite' - xeric, neat tree, but fills neither of your points. The Sweet Acacia, however, Mmmmmmm... I love, love, love the smell of their blooms in early spring. The only issue you might have in that small of a space is their spines, ow. There is also the Leatherleaf Acacia that has blooms, but I don't remember if they're scented.

    Tomatofreak's suggestion actually fulfills all of your criterion - fruit, sweet blooms and low litter. The only issue (and this might not be a big deal for you, especially in that area) is their heavy water use. But they are gorgeous, all of them. Some do have spines, as well.

    A tree that I just purchased is the Cordia boisseri - beautiful big white blooms - no scent, but will help with your pollinators. Sorry, fruit is inedible, I guess.

    HTH!

  • greyongray
    11 years ago

    I just read the part about leaf drop, this would preclude most fruit trees I think except for citrus. Fig trees can be pruned into all different shapes - single trunk, multi trunk, bush - but they grow a lot and if left unchecked they will get big. And they drop leaves every year.

    Lots of really great smaller native trees like Juttah mentioned! I would like someday to get a Kidneywood, have only seen pictures but have read they smell like vanilla. Also love some of those acacias.

  • Erik777
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    Lots of great advice and suggestions. Thanks.
    Looks like I have some thinking to do. What I want is a fig tree, I just wasn't sure if the shape of it was going to fit my needs, so I'm leaning more towards that. The variety that caught my attention (for whatever reason) was the Violette de Bordeaux. Maybe it's the name. It just sounds more appealing than "Brown Turkey"!. Anyway, I understand this is a closed eye fig, which supposedly do better in these parts?

    Pagancat, sorry for the confusion. The spot I'm looking at filling is in the upper left hand corner of that picture, in that triangular area. As far back into that corner as I can get it.

  • Pagancat
    11 years ago

    Ah, gotcha. I'm probably the only one who didn't get it, lol...

    Just remember the fig tree is deciduous. I'm certainly not discouraging you, I love them. And the leaves are fairly large, so it's not like you're trying to pick out leetle, teeny-tiny things from your pool.

    I'd say get whatever fig is available - and don't be afraid to start small. I had a twig - about 2' high - and it was a 10' fruit bearing tree in a year-and-a-half (planted in fall). That was in TN, with lotsa rain, but it will probably do as well here, especially if it is able to access some of the water you're using for your vegetable gardens.

  • tomatofreak
    11 years ago

    What's on the other side of the block (?) wall? Looks like 2 small trees/shrubs there; is it your yard or a neighbor's? Just remember: with a fig you get a lot of droppings, i.e., overripe figs, leaves in winter. And bugs. If it's really a closed-eye fig, you shouldn't get the infestation of sour fruit bugs, but you may well get lots of visiting June bugs. Those are harmless as far as I know, but they can sure alarm people. I happen to think they're funny.

    Btw, I have some confusion about the fig you mention. It's listed as being good for "cool areas" and "the Northwest" and then lists zone 9 and 10 - not cool - in recommended zones. If you do get this fig, please do let us know how it does here. And P.C. is right; figs grow like Topsy - fast.

  • Erik777
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    TF...
    not sure which block wall you are referring to. Other side of the two taller block walls (on the right side of the picture and the top of the picture) are neighbors yards.
    the small 3-4 foot retaining wall that sits underneath the large block wall in the back of the yard is part of my yard and has some sort of shrub that I don't know the name of. It was recommended by a nursery when i moved here knowing nothing about plants. Whatever it is, I don't care for it and will eventually replace those as well. Probably with Natal Plum, which I already have a few of growing on that very same ledge, but to the left out of the picture. They seem to do well in that spot, ever-green and have flowers that smell nice.

    I thought I read on some other thread about figs that somebody in the Phoenix area had that Bordeaux variety (among quite a few others) and said it was the best producer and their favorite of them all. I could be imagining that though.

  • Erik777
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    Found the thread I was referring to...

    Here is a link that might be useful: Fig Thread

  • newtoucan
    11 years ago

    You will like the Violette De Bordeaux. Plant a fig tree. It's not messy and responds well to pruning. It does great in full sun and in our heat. It does drop it's leaves in the winter, but it's not a huge mess at all. You won't have messy fruit all over the place, because you will be picking them and eating them since they are delicious.

  • shamusoleary
    11 years ago

    Tiger stripe fig, great presentation.

  • tomatofreak
    11 years ago

    And.... You can see that photo much more clearly at Hines Growers website, plus get info on that fig and find a Hines dealer near you.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Info on 'Tiger' fig

  • shamusoleary
    11 years ago

    Very attractive fig, and tasty. I planted a 3 ft tree this year that is about 4-5 ft at moment, did fruit a few months ago. Good conversation piece.

  • greeneater
    11 years ago

    I have a silk floss tree and a hong kong orchid, beautiful and unusual trees. Dont smell or fruit but cool.

  • Erik777
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    Thanks for the advice everyone. I think I've settled on the Violette de Bordeaux fig tree. It's what I wanted originally, I just wasn't sure if it was going to be a good match for the spot. I think it is though.
    Next question...
    Any suggestions on a good place to buy one? Specifically, the Bordeaux?
    Baker's told me to check back with them in January for their fig saplings. Said the Bordeaux wasn't one they usually stocked.

    Thanks.

  • shamusoleary
    11 years ago

    I would check with Reed at RSI in Glendale first. If he does not have it wait for a few weeks and many of the nurseries will be getting in their fall/winter stock.