25-20-20 is a supreme in hot counts. My experience in growing for hobby and growing professionally, I use the same fertilizer monthly with supplements. My opinion in a selection of fertilizer never goes over 20% by volume in both nitrogen and potassium. I keep my count at 19-6-9 with a supplement with liquid kelp, rotted manure, and fish emulsion. In answering your question, I would recommend using 3 tablespoons of that count of fertilizer you have per foot of growth to start. The reason being if the fertilizer is really a quik release, then you will overload the plant and the soil with excess minerals and elements that will prove toxic. Nitrogen and potassium salts will build up, and the plant cannot rest between hunting for nutrients. After you use this fertilizer up, I would search for differen't fetilizer with a more balanced volume with trace minerals to provide a stable feeding regiment.

I water my basjoo about three times a week. More if hot and dry. I fert twice a week (no matter what) with regular strength fish emulsion. I get two leaves a week from the basjoo now. Growth was really slow for a long time until I started this regime, then BANG! I also used Mycorrhizal products when it was planted.

I agree with agastacheman re your fert, it's really high. Bananas grow super fast but not as fast and full as anything that would need such levels. And that stuff really does kill the soil. Go organic. You will have better soil and plants. If you want to use your stuff up, you would be better off turning it into foliar spray once a month.

I agree that the fertilzer is high but don't think a fertilzer that is not organic is going to do too much damage on one clump of Basjoo. We would all like to be totally organic problem is that it isn't as available or work as good as the nonorganic products.

I agree that the fertilzer is high but don't think a fertilzer that is not organic is going to do too much damage on one clump of Basjoo. We would all like to be totally organic problem is that it isn't as available or work as good as the nonorganic products.

I can easily undestand the logic of using organic products for growing things that we eat. I do organic approach with my fruit trees and vegetables. For my lawn, ornamental bananas (zebrina, basjoo, sikkimensis), roses, and other ornamental plants, I can easily achieve desired growth and plant response, improve soil condition at fraction of a price of organic products.

I've been using 1 tablespoon of Peter's 20-20-20 in one gallon of water weekly for my 3 musa. They're doing well, about waist high to the tops of the pstems. Should I increase it to 1TBspoon/1 gallon per plant now? I've been giving that amount to my Alocasia Mac. and it's growing like mad.

Chemical ferts are faster and cheaper. No doubt. But after rain they are gone and the soil becomes dry and compact. Organics add tilth, moisture, and beneficial organisms. They are active for over a year after placement. They recycle otherwise polluting items. They are really an investment because over time you are watering and ferting less, and your soil maintains it's richness- including minerals not found in chems. Better plants and less money IMHO over the long term. As naner growers- especially us in harsher climates where naners are hard to come by and harder to keep alive- it does well to give them a good home. Especially if we are determined on success.

This is a good discussion for this post as well as the whole forum. We're really pushing the envelope on some of these species- mine are growing in north west Ohio for Heavens sake!! Naners typically grow in moist rich tropical locals. It makes as much sense (to me) to use organics as to even fertilize at all.

Plus, if we all only used organics, we wouldn't need those nasty chemical plants.... Sorry everyone, I'll put my Hippy Soapbox away now....

Bobcat

I don't understand your third sentence sentence. Are you implying chemical fertilizers compact your soil?

randy

I got a Musa pup in June. I water it daily and feed it once a week with organic fish fertilizer (5-1-1) weekly. It has grown like a weed and is over 4 feet tall now.

BD
PS I'm in Vancouver, BC.

Rjj1: Over time they will, in many cases, especially if there isn't any compost being added. Biological activity is one of the most important aspects to good soil. Bacteria, fungi, worms, algae, etc continually turn, push, pull and fluff soil (rototiller a la natural). They add gasses and retain moisture. Where as chemicals tend to be overly available and kill these creatures much like they kill plants when too much is used ("burn"). As time goes by (sometimes quick, sometimes slow) the soil loses these features and instead of being colloidal (clumpy), it becomes fine and silty. The silt compacts with wind, rain or footsteps. It may not become concrete, but it won't be in its ideal form.

Also, it is a fact that plants greatly benefit from symbiotic relationships with positive creatures in the soil. They have greater root development, for example, when attached to certain fungi. They have better defense against disease when bacteria like trichoderma grow on them.

Not really seen research stating that chemical fertilizers compact soils.

I dont really disagree with the points youve made. I would add that any soil, no matter how robust, breaks down and compacts over time. Most of what I grow is container tropicals and they really do benefit from a good quality composted soil that drains well.

randy

Yeah, your pretty on the mark. I really should have stated that chems support conditions where compaction is more probable. Organics support conditions more able to sustain good tilthe. And I agree that any soil breaks down and compacts *but* with use of organics *I feel* that matter is adequately replaced. Im a firm believer, however, that chems perform awesome foliarly.

Rjj1, btw, I checked out your page and your picture is damn awesome!!!!!! Did you take it?

I don't know enough about soil to hold an intelligent conversation about it and I am very new to bananas.

I do know that a few years ago I started composting and using fish emulsion regularly. The numbers and varieties of plants that I DID NOT kill increased dramatically. As a matter of fact, that success is what turned me into an obsessive gardener.

Don't get me wrong - I still use chemicals - but it seems that the more organic type stuff that I use the more success I have.

Bobcat, is the Microgrow any good for bananas? Do you use it?

Its my understanding that mycogrow (which is just one of many good available products) is beneficial to most plant life, including bananas. It serves three purposes:

We can compare them to mushrooms because they are fungi- only the mycogrow will not produce typical mushrooms. Mushrooms are the fruit- like an apple. To continue the analogy, the "tree" is below ground. It's call mycelium. This mycelium is made of fine hair like growing structures. These form sponge like mats. The first benefit is that these mycelial mats hold moisture into the soil, add gasses, and provide structure.

The mycelia attach themselves in a positive way to the cells of the plants roots. This symbiotic relationship benefits both parties because the plant provides certain nutrients to the fungus and the fungus provides certains nutrients to the plants. That is the second benefit.

The third is that these teeny tiny mycelia filaments can go far and wide, virtually extending the natural root structure of the plant.

There's probably a plethora of benefits that I'm excluding here, but for the purpose of your question, I think it covers it. So yes, it is beneficial to bananas. I use it and am very pleased with the growth of basjoo. I have a basjoo that was planted this spring (as a 6 inch pup), killed to the ground by a May frost, and is now 3ft high. It's very healthy. Note that I do not have any non-inoculated "controls" to weigh it against.

Oh, a fourth benefit is that if the soil surrounding a root system is already colonized by beneficial fungi and bacteria, its a lot tougher for a negative species to move in.

I don't fertilize mine. It just makes them grow too much and I already have a problem with them getting out of control. I also mulch very heavily around them to keep them from sending out pups. If I don't the darn things will take over the yard. And the neigbors and so on and so on. Since they produce bananas, too many pups and look great I see no reason for change. Don't use and never have used chemicals. Never knew fertilizer was such a hot topic!
Good luck with your nanners!
Tally HO!

Bobcat

Yea, I took the photo on the page. I enjoy nature photography.

randy

Mycogrow only works in some soils, but where it works, it works very well. There are some native microflora and microfauna which can counter the growth and totally wipe out the fungi in Mycogrow. There are also other interactions with the host plant, soil composition, soil and water pH, weather, and other biotic and abiotic factors which could be detrimental to applicability of microbial remediations. Mycogrow and the like products are not meant to be panacea. Back during my agricultural research work, we have done extensive biomremediation approaches and using microbes as alternatives, and sad to say, it is not applicable to most soil types and most regions, but when it does, it works very well.

Not all soils leach away plant nutrients. Clay soils for example have tremendous capacities to store both moisture and nutrients. Organic matter really helps tremendously improve the soil for plant growth and production. Not all organic matter added into the soil are certified to be true organic amendments as per definition of organic growing. For example, you may add Super soil, which contains chemical fertilizers but they add a lot of organic matter to improve the soil, and one should not claim that it is organic growing. The same with composted steer manure which has been balanced by manufacturers for proper plant growth, these contain chemical fertilizers and therefore are not organic, but using these will surely improve your soil. Addition of organic matter to improve your soil is NOT organic growing. Organic matter and organic growing are widely disparate terms and are NOT synonyms of each other. Any composting process that would involve addition of chemical fertilizers to speed up composting and increase plant nutrients would invalidate their usage for organic growing, but nonetheless, they are a lot better when adding to the soil, not very much different when you haul manure from nearby farms and add chemical fertilizers to it.

Organic matter can also immobilize the nutrients available for plants in the short term, but in the long term, should be able to release it slowly, very favorable to the plants. Take for example grass clippings. There are plenty of digestible carbon in there, and when microbes start to consume the grass clippings, they start to rob the soil of available nutrients such as N, P, K and others. When the microbes die after the supply starts to decline, then the nutrients are slowly released back and becomes availble to the plants. It depends upon your soil and environment how the specifics are played out. Thus in some cases you will see yellowing of plants that you have mulched with grass clippings, but then through time, they will rebound better than ever, assuming no pathogenic introductions that are detrimental to some plants caused about by grass clipping decomposition.

There are tremendous benefits to increasing the organic matter in your soil, and bananas are known to really love soils with high organic matter. Amending your soil with organic matter is NOT organic growing.

"Amending your soil with organic matter is Not organic growing"... Whoever said just amending the soil with organics is organic gardening has banana's for brains...Sounds like JoeReal had some tiffs with people who had little or no common sense. LOL, that made my day, that quote, that made my day...lol

Here's more. It is possible that you can be certified organic grower without adding organic matter into your farm land (externally importing).

Anyway, back to the subject, whatever fertilizer you use, use it in a way that will feed the plant, not burn it. If I was using a hot fertilizer like that I'd back down on the rate. That is a pretty large plant, so why don't you sprinkle about a cup or so of it in a circle about 6" from the stalk of the plant, and keep your plant well watered. You would probably be able to get by with that once a month and not hurt a thing, and not burn your plant either. Make sure you keep it watered in the hot weather because that will help it grow. If you mulch it heavily with leaves in the fall, that will add organic matter to your soil, too, and help the soil absorb and hold water. I usually use a soup can full of 12-12-12 twice or three times over the course of the summer-- about a month apart,around my place for a plant that size and more if the plant is bigger. And if you forget, they grow anyway as long as you water them!

"And if you forget, they grow anyway as long as you water them". Lol, that is pretty funny. Oh wait, anyway, back to the subject.....

In California, the major nutrient that is deficient is dihydrogen monoxide. You simply add that adequately, plants will grow nicely.

JoeReal, did your research include the effects of such products in mulch-specific biodynamic mound plantings? I have a large garden and only used it on the raised bed tomatoes. All was mulched, however, with wood chips and straw. The mulch under the tomatoes is "moldy" and you can pick up "chunks". To me, this shows at least one of the positive factors of the product: decomp. The rest does not have this consistency. It is also more broken down in the under-layers. Just an observation. I don't really agree that it doesn't work in most soils, but I would agree that different strains found in the products would act / react differently to different soils (re: successive growth, spore germination, dominant species). Which would lead to be more successful in certain locales. I also agree that competition is a strong factor, but again there are many strains of fungi / bacteria in each product and if one has a foothold it would be strong. Plus I think there is a lot of good to adding products at the seed level. This is how they inoculate trees for truffles- so why not myco products for vege's, flowers, and landscapes? I think your points are highly salient when considering agriculture as a business. But considering you can now get these products included in fertilizers (rainbow bloom is one I have used) or as a 5 dollar stand alone product, it is my opinion that it would be a good investment for the hobby soil gardener or anyone who uses sterilized / pasteurized balanced soils- like most potting soils.

I really like what you say about Organics vs. organics. Just to point out how confusing some of my posts were, i actually refer mostly to organic material based products and not certified Organic products. But I do believe that in the future the certified products will take up a significantly greater market share, especially as more and more people find out how well it works over time. And (if this happens) as the use of chems decrease, manufacturers will find them more expensive to process, package, and supply- seeking financially favorable alternatives (total organic approach, in bulk). This would all be positive because regardless of any soil capabilities, chems are still more likely to burn fauna and flora and wash out into our rivers and streams (and into the natural world where it is not welcome).

Amending your soil only with certified products after a few years (unless it's virgin) IS organic growing. Which is really just semantics unless your growing a product for sale to the pubic (it is a legal business term for a specific product), you are a results oriented grower (competition or public display) or if you garden from a moralistic / ethical perspective (it is an environmental reform term). The latter describes the most common "organic" grower- who is usually happy with "better" products as opposed to "best". At this time, when certified products are few and far between (and priced as such) for the average person who doesn't fit any description, the distinction is essentially moot.

To All: Fertilizing is a hot topic to us in cooler climates. Yep, if you just water them they will grow. They are pretty awesome that way. BUT if you live in zone 5 like myself, and you really want to see your banana back next year, you want as much growth as possible- particularly in the roots- each season. Not to say it should be obsessed over, but it is more important in the cold areas for bananas. We don't have to worry so much about them taking anything over.

All....
Thank you for all the information regarding fertilising my Musas. After reading all the posts and the additional mails I received regarding the subject, I realised that there is no generic answer to the question. Sure there is the fact of going organic or chemical. At present I am going down the chemical route and the plants are shooting out of the ground perhaps due to fear? Over fertilising?who knows.... Whatever the reason, they are doing great in a very unaccommodating Scottish climate with a very short growing season.
I have learned a lot form all the posts, perhaps I am about to create mutant plants due to the fertiliser I am using.. The Scottish, horticultural answer to Island of Dr. Moreau But I am going to continue with what I am doing until I run out of the fertiliser. Unfortunately for Mother Nature I bulk bought the stuff.
Thanks Jochen

I would go careful on the fertiliser in Scotland. The faster the banana has grown, the less cold tolerant it will be. I would fertilise once a month and get slower cold tolerant growth rather than fast growth which can't stand the Scottish climate.