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plantinellen

Top-Bar vs. Traditional Hives Up North?

plantinellen
13 years ago

My partner and I would like to start keeping bees on a hobby level. We've read some good things about Warre' and other top-bar hives...but we've also heard that they're not the best choice for cold climates like ours (mid- to lower Zone 5). We're also concerned about being able to tap local beekeeper expertise as we get into this, and we've never seen any top-bar hives around here; we don't want to get in a situation where we ask local beekeepers for help, have them get a look at our hive and say, "What in the heck is that?"

Another option we've considered is an 8-frame English garden hive -- something smaller and lighter than a standard hive that's attractive and easy for us to use. (My partner, who is the more interested/involved party in this project, has some mobility issues that make a smaller/lighter hive an attractive option.)

We'd especially like to hear from northern beekeepers, particularly those with some practical experience using different types of hives. What would you suggest for hobby-beekeeping newbies who are interested in harvesting honey and wax, of course, but who also just like the idea of pollinating our and our neighbors' gardens and helping honeybees survive and thrive? Please help us -- it's gettin' time to actually order bees!

Comments (9)

  • Konrad___far_north
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I'd go with standard hives what's common in your area, most likely the
    proven Langstroth hive.
    Have two deep brood boxes and when it comes to put honey super up
    use the medium, most older folks are using this, makes it easier to take
    off, less weight.
    But...you can go all same size, I mean use full size for honey super and
    when it comes to take honey off, take one frame at the time, ....I know
    some people do this and I think it's fine when you have around 5 hives or less.

    Konrad

    Here is a link that might be useful: Langstroth Hive

  • bbnlacemaker
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I am also starting a hive this spring after thinking and reading about it for a number of years. I am in Maine and a zone 4, but being at the top of a hill with the wind whistling I think it is probably closer to a zone 3 in spite of what the zone maps say! If the only thing worrying you is climate, I don't think you need to change your plans. There are many people here and in other areas colder than yours who do quite well with THBs. There is a TBH maker in Bath, Maine who has several how-to videos, including one on how to winterize your hive. Usual disclaimers---I am not affiliated in any way, but I have been to their site a number of times for information. You can find their videos at www.goldstarhoneybees.com
    Several TBH sites I have visited have recommended a black roof in cold weather areas to absorb more heat from the sun. It is also recommended that you go for full sun rather than dappled sun when you site your hive if you are in an area of severe and lengthy winters. However, from what I have read, I don't think a zone 5 really qualifies as a particularly tough winter area. And your summers are significantly warmer and longer than ours. If I were you, I would contact people on one of the many TBH sites or natural beekeeping sites and ask what they would recommend as far as winterization for your zone.
    I have been reading a lot on both sides of the Langstroth/top bar hive question as I have tried to make a decision on which type of hive to get. Both have advantages and both have people who are convinced that their way is the only way to go and they will give you lots of reasons for their opinions. Personally, I have given more weight to the opinions of those who have tried both types of hives because I think they have a greater basis for comparison. It is a fascinating debate no matter which way you go!
    I can also tell you that from reading both scientific studies and anticdotal stories, the TBH is often consisdered a better choice for cold weather areas. They are usually constructed of thicker wood than a traditional Langstroth which helps with condensation problems, and they are constructed in such a way that there is empty air space between the follower boards and the exterior wall of the hive. This can be left as just an insulating air cushion, or stuffed with insulating material. Either way, the brood is in the center of the hive, between the followers and well away from the cold wall of the exterior box.
    I guess what I've gotten out of all of this is that whatever you decide to get, living in northern areas shouldn't rule out top bar hives. You may go with something different for other reasons, but temperature worries shouldn't be the dealbreaker.
    You also mentioned Warre hives. I found a good side by side comparison of Warre vs horizontal TBH at this site
    www.biobees.com
    Have you decided where you are getting your bees yet? That's on my list of things to decide and accomplish in the next day or two!
    I'm sooooo excited to finally be starting on this hobby!

  • annpat
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I am also from Maine and also very excited! about my new hobby. My family gave both my brother and myself a TBH that came from the company in Bath, with whom I am also not affiliated, but where I'm taking a beekeeping course next month. I ordered my bees from them and from an outfit in Brewer, Maine.

    Finding many free plans on the internet, I signed up for an Adult Ed woodworking class where I hope to build another TBH and a Langstroth or two.

  • bbnlacemaker
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hey Annpat!

    I looked at the workshop that Goldstar was offering, but it was a bit too pricey for me. I'm sure it will be fun and informative though, so enjoy! Are you anywhere around the Augusta area? I'm in Winthrop. I am building my own TBH, which should be interesting!! But my husband and oldest son can help me out when I get stuck. I decided to get Russian bees and I couldn't find a local supplier, so I will be ordering a package of Russians from out of state. There is a Kennebec Valley group that meets in Readfield that I plan to join. I'm hoping at least one of them has some experience with THBs. One of the local people I have met already only uses Langstroth, but he seemed kind of disgusted with the expense. Have fun!!

  • annpat
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I call both Brunswick and Ellsworth home. I'm also building a TBH. I panicked and ordered bees without knowing what I was doing. I got one hive from Gold Star and one hive from a couple in Brewer, both arriving in April. Nice making touch with you.

  • tonybeeguy
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I'll be going on my seventh season this year and have always had at least 5 and as many as 10 hives. They are all langstroth hives, but I've been wanting to try a top bar to compare. I have the tools and skills to build one, just haven't had the time. Maybe this will be the year. I would just like to experience a different type of hive and be able to compare the two. That's how we broaden our knowledge

  • annpat
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    lacemaker:

    Here's the one I built:{{gwi:434639}}

    I'm a little embarrassed about the paint. I wish I'd done beeswax and linseed oil, but I saw some cheap low VOC and caved.

  • annpat
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Here are my bars, which I can see, now, are flawed. I've read today that the slats I put in the slots might make the bees built on them rather than the bars themselves. I'll either cut them shorter or yank them out. {{gwi:434641}}

  • bbnlacemaker
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    annpat,
    Don't be embarressed about anything, those look beautiful!! It looks like you put your new woodworking skills to very good use. I haven't started mine yet. I was unexpectedly switched from part-time to full-time work due to the injury of a coworker a couple of months ago and everything else went on the backburner for awhile. I did finally order plans and hardware yesterday, so when they arrive I will get started. I checked out a lot of designs from different THB places and finally decided what I really wanted was a combination of several features of 3 different hives. So I ordered plans for the "Golden Mean" hive from Backyard Beekeeper and have a list of features from a couple other places that I hope to incorporate.

    How was your weekend seminar from Gold Star? Did you get a lot out of it? I was really regretting not signing up, but it turns out to have been a good thing because I ended up have to work on all the dates anyway. Having done it, do you feel it would be worthwhile for someone to take after they have been keeping bees in a TBH for a year, (assuming I can do it successfully) or was it really geared for beginners?

    Tonybeeguy,
    Please let us know your experiences if you do the side-by-side thing this year. I'd be very interested in your observations.