A bog is usually considered a open, sunny, unwooded area of wet peaty soil, often with open water in the centre.

In terms of succession, a bog forms from a pond.C attails, reeds, shrubs etc along the pond edge slowly form soil and reduce the size of the pond. The pond itself fills with decaying organic matter which reduces its depth. Floating mats of vegetation may cover the surface. As time goes on, trees may grow on the soil formed at the edges.

What you have sounds like a swamp (area with trees, moist soil and standing water).

you have a marsh.

What is the difference between marsh and swamp?

>What is the difference between marsh and swamp?

The difference is the vegetation. Swamps can support trees and other woody vegetation. Marshes have grasses such as reeds, cattails, etc. Judy B was correct. The original poster has a swamp. (And so do I.)

Ok, I always thought the swamp was void of trees except cyprus types. I know my strip joins the back (of a friend around the street corner (whose IS wetter and lots of grassy or cat-tail types) and past his back strip is the State property of open water where you have to step on clumps of grasses (and pray the clump is big enough for support.)

So then I suppose my swampy thicket woodland is a transition zone for the big marsh. And my yard proper is the clay border over a high water table (4-5'down) with small seasonal vernal pools.

Thanks for all your inputs.

Tamarack, Cedar, and especially Pitcher plants are all species that indicate Bog. Is there accumulated peat? Acidic soil? Problem is naturalist, hydrologist, ecologist all might define "bog" "swamp" etc. a bit differently.

I'd not classify it as a bog. If there were really pitcherplants there then I'd change my mind, but I suspect they are just Arisaema.

The soil sounds too mucky to be a true bug, and some of the species like trout lilly, cattails, joe-pye weed, spider wort, and marsh marigold, tend to prefer higher nutrient soils.

Usually being bright and sunny, and containing Sphagnum moss are my key criteria for determining bog habitat. If you have sphagnum then maybe it is.

KWoods is right though. People can be really picky about this term "bog". Technically, Bogs only occur in areas that have had glaciers but I generally use the term to mean any low nutrient sunny acidic environment. Some people might call what I have in the south, seeps, not bogs.

I do think there are good reasons for seperating Bog, Swamp, and marsh though. These really are dramatically different ecosystems. I think the confusion also means people don't understand why protecting a bog would be so vitally important, when wet swampy areas are relatively common. If more people understood that Bogs are rare ecosystems (with some geographical exceptions), and not simply any old mucky place, but bright sunny places full of strange flowers, then more people might be inclined to protect them. (Or at least that's what idealists like myself try to make myself believe)

ok then what does living peat look like?

It appears some of the area is wet and some of it is spongy like a mat. In the spongy areas everything at it's edge seems to have this algae or moss growing over. In the black sponging peaty centers I can stick my cane in the black soil and it will easily push down the whole length of the cane with no resistance. On the edges of this (where the moss,algae) is I feel like I'm walking on a well padded plush carpet. This spongy mossy stuff pulls back as if it were sod without roots. It is brown on the underside which I guess is roots so fine I can't see them. It does remind me of the spagnum moss I used to purchase. The black moist soil looks like the damp black "Michigan Peat" bags you can buy in the stores.

I'll have to keep researching I guess to figure out if all the area is classified as either or if I have transistional micro-zones. Once I get home (downstate recovering from surgery) I will take up some of the soil in each area and send it for analysis.

At home I am a gardening nut, but at work, I am a hydrogeologist and wetland specialist. I work with hydrologists, botanists, wildlife specialists, and soil scientists, and we all define the different wetlands with the same criteria-- in fact, we collaborate because our expertise is in different, complementary areas.

Nancy, sounds like you've figured it right. You got trees and wet soil, and several indicator plants: you got a classic swamp, with transition to marsh and boggy open water. You probably have some vernal pools in there: neat places. Vernal pools are generally seasonal (thus vernal for spring) and in temperate zones like ours provide essential breeding for many kinds of amphibians. What a delightful natural area you have! I'm envious.

Judy B. was right on about the definitions and the process of transition. From the depth of the peat, your swamp probably developed from what was originally open water: a pond or even lake if it is extensive. Eventually the swamp will become solid but poorly drained land (but probably not in our lifetimes). Sometimes swamps develop in claypan soils--Vermont is glacially derived landscape, as is much of Michigan, and there are extensive claypan forests here. Since you've described the soil near your house as heavy clay, I suspect that is the case where you are, too. Sounds like your neighborhood is built on the edge of what was once a glacial hardpan lake.

Dayle Ann (I just love geology and water...)

Dayle Ann-
Since you are a hydrogeologist I just have to ask this question: how is it that farmers can build ponds without liners while the rest of us have can't get the soil to hold water?
Sorry, but that has been bugging me lately.
Bob

Dayle Ann I'm sending you a private message.

Bob, I'm guessing but it may be that farmers are containing water that is already there. City etc on the other hand are trying to make wet where it isn't normally wet thus the soil soaks it up...hence need for liner. (especially the city "treated water")

Oh yeah, Dayle is it legal to pull some of the moss and send it to you for identification? I can't seem to find pictures online to help with ID

Actually, it does sound like sphagnum you are describing, especially the bit about a plush carpet. The easy way to identify sphagnum is that moss is usually made up of a bunch of tiny individual plants. In sphagnum the individual mosses are very big, up to an inch in diameter and many inches long. It should look just like the moss you might buy dried for orchids. It can be many different colors including green, red or orange. Here's what it looks like:

Given the presence of this moss, I'd say you might indeed have a true bog in the sunnier portion. For that matter, if the sphagnum is present, I wouldn't be suprised if you also had some carnivores - at least bladderworts and sundews. If you do have true pitcherplants, they'd look like this:

They tend to be very rare though, so if you do have them then you'd be quite lucky.

LOL-- even our botanist has a hard time identifying most moss species! There are people who specialize in mosses who have long discussions about which moss they are looking at. Many are simply listed in our inventories as "moss species". There are some common ones that even I can identify, but most of my knowledge about specific plants is based on western ecosystems.

If your moss is widespread, it won't hurt it to take a specimen. You could take a specimen to a local botanist-- if you have a university, national forest, or a nature conservancy type of organization near by, there are usually people there who are happy to do a quick id for you.

Best of all, most states have a Native Plant Society with local chapters, and they are a wonderful resource, because many members are professional botanists. If there is a local chapter, I bet they'd jump at the chance if you invited them to a field tour of your property! Imagine how much you'd be able to learn.

As for farm ponds, I think Nancy is right-- many, maybe most farm ponds were wet spots to begin with. Sometimes, though, farmers will put in a pond for fire protection purposes, irrigation, stock watering or for fishing, or all of the above. Depending on the soil, they may be compacting existing clayish soil so that it retains water, or in some cases, bringing in liner clay by the truckload (I've seen this done). Sometimes, though, ponds are spring-fed, or simply get enough inflow from rain than lost through seepage. This is the case with my tiny pond which is spring-fed and also gets runoff when it rains a lot. Which it has done in excess this last year.

Dayle Ann

Sphagnum moss grows in open bogs, so if the moss Nancy is referring to is in the woods, it wouldn't be a sphagnum. But there are lots of mosses that grow in swampy woods. Club mosses are very common (Lycopodium species) and a wetland indicator.

Just found this wonderful site on plants of the Northwoods:

http://www.rook.org/earl/bwca/nature/ferns/index.html

Check out all the listings just for different varieties of sphagnum moss! Too bad they don't have photos of everything. I found it over in the Woodlands forum. Been a long time since I checked in over there. Pretty neat forum for this kind of thing.

Dayle Ann

Here is a link that might be useful: Ferns and Fern Allies of the Northwoods

Just got back home (from surgery downstate). The yard itself is water pools on top of ice (last night freezing rain). What areas weren't a "pool of ice" are slushy slimy ruts filled with water.

Have yet to get out there and walk around or look downstairs to see if the sump pump is ok. Maybe tomorrow as I fill the bird feeders.

Once I'm cleared by the Dr I will start taking "woodland" walks and get more pictures to help us determine what I have.

Are club mosses or sphagnum moss evergreen?

Yarthkin: I'm wondering now if it is sphagnum as your image looks like they are whorled.

I took a short walk and lifted some that was growing from ground over some old fallen wood. It looks similar to what is growing at the trunk base at the mucky edges. Wonder if it is a litchen?

On closer look is individual plants. Each plant somewhat resembles a tiny flatish cedar. Didn't look quite like the pictures I was able to find.

In the searching I did find some of the MANY other fungi and litchens growing on trees (including apples in the yard).

Now I am on a never ending quest to find and identify what is in my surrounding area.

Yes, I suppose one could describe sphagnum as whorled. I tend to think of it kind of like shag carpet. It is also usually very deep - sometimes many feet deep. What you have certainly doesn't sound like sphagnum, but it probably is some other kind of moss.

What about your pitcherplants? Do they look like the red one in the photo I posted? If not, I'd say they probably aren't actually pitcherplants. Besides, I'd be highly suspicious of a pitcherplant growing anywhere without Sphagnum nearby.

Even if your area doesn't turn out to be a bog per se, it does sound like a very special place that you should be proud to own. Swamps and marshes contain lots of rare and interesting plants too, and are havens for birds and wildlife. I'm also willing to bet there is a native plant society in your area which can help you learn more and manage this area in a way that will enhance its health and beauty.

Someone who lived on our land in the past (I'd say in the last 10 years) decided they didn't want the spring creek on the north side of our property to go all the way to the river in its original bed. I suspect it had cut a deep gully they didn't want to have to bridge to get over. They dumped topsoil into the creek bed so that the spring now spreads out and seeps into the ground about 100 yards from the river, forming a sort of wetland about 100 x 50 feet. I'd like to do something with the resulting mushy area, but am not sure what my options are. It's not very old, so I haven't identified any marsh/bog/wetland plants, and about the only thing living in there right now are a couple of sickly river birches, tufty grass and a lot of (expletive deleted) privet that I am systematically ripping up. It will be relatively sunny with a southern exposure when I'm done cleaning out.
Thanks for any suggestions.

Ok I've been watching and waiting for the plant to show up. I believe it is a Jack in the Pulpit I found though those prurplish things I have seen exploring surrounding wetland areas.

I took some pictures today so if they come out I'll use them for ID. I have been having a lot of trouble with the 35mm since the Grandkids changed the settings (playing twist & turn the lenses) I don't know enough to know where it should be set for what so I guess it will be trial and error.