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It is late , I am half asleep and maybe in thr wrong forum

Posted by NOTHO__NANTUCKET (My Page) on
Sun, Aug 8, 04 at 3:39

Why do I do this to myself by asking strange questions? DO the words Riparian and Ecotones beloong together in some way ,shape or form if I am in the wrong forum please advise me in the right forum ? Please I gutzzz ta know thak you all dearly N.N,


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: It is late , I am half asleep and maybe in thr wrong forum

Ehh ... I don't think they have to belong together ... a Ecotone is a transistion zone between two communities ... a riparian area is found along banks of rivers and streams ... here in the Great Basin desert for example there is often a sharp difference in communinty stucture as one goes from low desert mountain areas to a riparian community ... that is a sharp ecotone.

Any transition zone though can be a ecotone.

Welcome ...

Good Day ...


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RE: It is late , I am half asleep and maybe in thr wrong forum

Thanks , Kid ,if I may call you that, any information from you , or others would be highly appreciated like info on hydric soils etc. etc. obligate hydrophytes,and faculative stuff and just wetland info from all parts of the country that you may have some tidbit knowledge of Iam asking for a lot but anything to keep a conversation going would be great ,maybe different links or whatever. thank you NOTHO -NANTUCKET


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RE: It is late , I am half asleep and maybe in thr wrong forum

  • Posted by Rosa 4-ish (My Page) on
    Sun, Aug 8, 04 at 15:55

Are you trying to delineate wetland areas?


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RE: It is late , I am half asleep and maybe in thr wrong forum

Well ,here goes ,I have nothing against honest contractors house builders ,farmers ,and wetland owners.I would like to know what they can get away with and what not, as far as being legal! The question I asked the other night was kind of broad to say the least, it wassomething that sort of came up togetgher some how and duh! was confused. Iam interested in wetlands and any kind of war stories you may have and other sources of information or explaining words I may not really grasplike riparian or hydric soils and how they are made.If anyone is interested in this subject let,s talk. thank you NOTHO - NANTUCKET


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RE: It is late , I am half asleep and maybe in thr wrong forum

Your house isn't sinking? Is it?

I just heard a story on NPR about some folks back east who bought houses on "reclamed" soil and now their houses are falling apart. I hope that's not happening to you. :(


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RE: It is late , I am half asleep and maybe in thr wrong forum

Just when you think it is safe to go back in the water!!!!!! No that is not happening ,but some times I do get that sinking feeling.I would like to talk about wetlands with whom ever, we can take a Notho Nantucket Sleigh Ride to break the ice !!!!! If anyone is interested , talk wetlands !!!! n.n,


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RE: It is late , I am half asleep and maybe in thr wrong forum

Well we have a Wetlands project on the way here in Clark County .. Nevada. The only problem ... the water is running out ...

Good Day ...


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RE: It is late , I am half asleep and maybe in thr wrong forum

  • Posted by Rosa 4-ish (My Page) on
    Mon, Aug 9, 04 at 8:09

We are actually accumulating some from the recent rains and are befining to re-wrk som of the wetland projects that were underway before the drought hit.

Notho
It's not that no one wants to talk about it but that probably not one of us can, to any degree, help unless they are a hydorlogic engineer, or are certified to do this. The subject is fraught with legalities dependant on a large array of factors and knowing both federal and individual state law is a must especially if you have to navigate the additional and complicated water rights laws in the western US.

You have to be "certified" to delineate wetlands. Now I am not sure how that works on a state level but on a federal level the Army Core of Engineers usually does the designation. Anyone can pay and take the courses but it's a bugger of a series and then a certification test.
You can't just walk out to an area with cattails growing in it and declare it a wetland. They need all three components of hydric soils, obligate/facaltive plants and a length of time the water inundates the lndscape. Hydric soils are determined from thier characteristics on the landscape-how much area they take up as well a depth AND their characteristics in the lab (documentation is a must). Plants of course can be determined mostly on site and there has to be some historical documentation for length of time (although plants can also give strong evidence as well. That's the easy part. The harder part is determining the legal jusrisdiction and applying the proper set of rules to play by.
For instance, The Bureau of Rec has all jusrisdiction of navigable waters in the US and the USFWS has jurisdiction not over the water per say but of all threatened, endangered and sensitive species their habitats in/near that wetland. If neither apply the State-usually thru its DNR-has additional rules to play by which may be extremely strict depending on the state.
So as far as what's legal (creating, enlarging, uncreating, pesticide use, T&E species, etc...) depends on the jusrisdiction.


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RE: It is late , I am half asleep and maybe in thr wrong forum

Hey Rosa, thank you dearly on your imput ,you could have not said it any if anything better than me ,your summery puts what I was trying to put in one ball of wax .you have to know me to appreciate me I am now humble!!! Perhaps we could talk about wetland plant life I am a practicing horticulturist for the past 30 years and self taught . On a wetland project we need 22 Rubus hispidus Ihad to get out my Gray,s Manual of , to check that one out .and now to search the country to find it to stay with plan protocol which is a great hobby, so any way if we could talk about different wetland plants and how they evovled there that would probably be great!! SO it would be a pleasureto correspond with you or anyone
on related questions ,like where can Ifind swamp dewberry, or how can it survive in it,s surroundings .etc. etc. etc. thanks NOTHO.


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RE: It is late , I am half asleep and maybe in thr wrong forum

  • Posted by Rosa 4-ish (My Page) on
    Tue, Aug 10, 04 at 7:16

So you are working on restoring wetlands.


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RE: It is late , I am half asleep and maybe in thr wrong forum

We are just beginning to .wetland is all that is left in So. New England ,to build on and be restored. Iwould like to get advice from you ,or others on questions like using non-invasive not native plants etc. etc. THANK YOU for all your concern so far Rosa!!! and like to continue N.N.


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RE: It is late , I am half asleep and maybe in thr wrong forum

  • Posted by Rosa 4-ish (My Page) on
    Wed, Aug 11, 04 at 8:05

NN
I know little to nothing of plants in your region. Even tho I was raised on the east coast, my schooling and plant work have been here in Colorado.

As for using non-native, non agressive plants in wetland areas it depends on the situation. There would be some who may agrue this point but I personally think it's fine for some areas but totally out of place and even undesireable in others. Depends on exactly what you are trying to create or manage for.


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RE: It is late , I am half asleep and maybe in thr wrong forum

Notho,
I am confused by your postings. Sorry 'bout that!
As you know, the wetlands of Nantucket resulted from the meltwaters of the last glacier. Heavy clay deposits were laid down followed by the lighter gravels and sands. Around depressed land areas vegetation grew, died and thus the iron rich peat layers developed. You have two types of wetlands; those behind the dunes along the ocean and the inland wetlands. Restoration of each type would be done using two different approaches. Why in heck are you out searching for plants foreign to your local wetlands when everything you need is either already on island or neighboring islands such as No Man's Land? All that is needed is an intense propagation project to grow your present natives that thrive in these unique ecosystems.

To restore a wetlands along the ocean one would first put in place a sand dune on the ocean side. This would be heavily planted with Poison ivy, Beach plum (Prunus maritima), Rosa rugosa (not native but almost is), beach grasses, etc. These are the plants that glue and hold sand dunes together. Then in the area behind the dune where rain water will accumulate sun dews, wild cranberry, etc. are planted. It may be necessary to first spread peat moss to replicate the original soil. Also, one would plant the same trees (young stock) that are growing a bit further back from the ocean. These trees will never reach full height due to wind, but they are an important part of the beach wetland ecology. Have you noticed them?

The inland wetlands are depressed areas usually (not always)at the base of slopes. A disturbed inland wetland may need some slight reshaping and berming. Probably spreading peat moss may be necessary. Then you plant the native blueberries/viburnums around the edge and fill the depression with native perennials/shrubs that thrive in damp areas; Joe Pye weed, Ilex verticillata...you are familiar with the native plants needed. There are so many choices why introduce new types of plants to ecosystems that have flourished for centuries?

By the way....are you aware that you are in a part of the world where a 60+ year, ongoing mystery plant search is underway? Within the past few years a rededicated effort is blossoming to find a Prunus maritima shrub that fruits every year despite spring weather conditions. Researchers at Cornell have enter the search plus growers on the Cape. I have personal knowlege that over the last 60 years rooted hybrid cuttings were sent and planted all over Nantucket for trial. Hope you are aware of and part of this search. Should you have noted any Beach plums worthy of bringing to the attention of the researchers I can give you an interested contact name for further information.


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RE: It is late , I am half asleep and maybe in thr wrong forum

Sorry for any confusion Nandina,, these areas that I am talking about are between Worcester,Mass. and Providence,Rhode Island,the best LIL STATE in the union.Once again I apologize, so please forgive me !!!!!! the Protocols for these areas of disturbed wetlands are regulated by Conservation Commitee Botanists and that is fairly final all plant material is on their say so ,but maybe something a little different and benificial will be of use. Any info on anything about wetlands present and past ventures would be welcomed to hear about anything!!!! Ihope Ihave not openned a can of worms with anyone THANK YOU Notho -Nantucket.


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