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splinter1804

Low 'N' and 'P' high 'K'

splinter1804
15 years ago

Hi all - Everything I read about the fertilizer requirements for broms. generally recommends low Nitrogen and high Potassium.

Can anyone tell me specifically how much is low and how much is high?

Also is there such a fertilizer available as a controlled release in Australia and where can it be obtained?

Thanks in advance, all the best, Nev.

Comments (17)

  • LisaCLV
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Nev, it's the ratio you want to look at rather than the individual numbers, since the application rate can be adjusted accordingly. From what I've read, the ideal ratio of N-P-K for broms (particularly foliage types like Neos and Bills) would be some multiple of 1-1.5-2. That means a formula of 5-7.5-10 or 10-15-20 (or anything with that sort of ratio) would be fine. The higher the numbers the less you'd have to use.

    Unfortunately I don't know of any commercial fertilizer that comes in a ratio like that, so it's kind of academic anyway, unless you can mix your own!

  • bromadams
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    The ratio Lisa gives is the same ratio the Baensch's give based upon their "systematic long-term experiments". But then they give caveats for young, old, flowering and sun vs shade. Good luck with that!

  • kerry_t_australia
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Nev and all,

    There are many schools of thought on this issue of fertilising broms.

    To fertilise, or not to fertilise - that is the question. Then again, if one does fertilise, how much, how often, and what NPK ratio? and for which broms? - the exact answer differs greatly between growers, according to personal opinion and variable growing conditons, even threatening fisty-cuffs between avid brom growers! I don't think there is a simple answer. And, of course, broms aint broms, Sol!

    Andrew Steens, in his first book "Bromeliads for the Contemporary Garden", advocates an NPK ratio of 5:2:7 as a general recommendation for broms. Lisa's and the Baensch's suggestion is different again, but still with a higher potassium rate. This higher potassium rate (K) is recommended especially for neoregelias, billbergias, silver tillandsias and red-leaved members of the sub-family bromelioideae. A higher nitrogen rate is often recommended for softer, green-leaved broms such as vrieseas, guzmanias and pitcairnias, as well as more often applied.

    Most flower-boosting and fruit-promoting fertilisers have a higher potassium level than nitrogen, and generally a very low phosphorous level. These are commercially available in Australia, Nev - mostly as soluble foliage food eg. Yates Thrive soluble fert. I have spent hours in places like Bunnings, reading the chemical analysis of fertilisers - usually searching for that higher level of potassium.
    Finding a balanced NPK fertiliser has been difficult i.e. with roughly equal parts of N, P and K. The closest I've found is a specialised African Violet fertiliser. I wanted to try this on my foliage vriesea and alcantarea seedlings, recommended by Kiwi Andrew Maloy via John and Agatha (Jaga on GardenWeb).
    For slow-release pellets, some argue that Nutricote is better than Osmocote, due to the latter known for dumping excess fertiliser in hot, moist weather - something to do with the coating material.
    In South-east Queensland, there is a product available which is specifically designed for fertilising broms - both in soluble form for foliar feeding, and in slow-release pellets. I'm not sure if it's appropriate to name this product on a public forum - for fear of advertising infringement - but if anyone wants to know its name and the supplier, they can contact me via my provided email addy. It is available through sellers at our Gold Coast brom society meetings. The buffered slow release fertiliser feeds for up to 3 months, and is recommended for making nutrients available at early stage of plant growth by adding to potting mixes or bedding application. This product's analysis is N=6%, P=4.2%, K=24% + magnesium (Mg) as Magnesium Oxide = 4.2%, Iron (Fe)= 0.1%, Calcium (Ca) as Calcium carbonate = 4%, and Sulphur (S) as Sulphates = 2.3% - according to the label.
    I use the above slow release pellets when potting my neo, billbergia, aechmea and foliage vriesea pups - and only continue using it on my foliage vrieseas after that. NB. I've noticed some foliage vrieseas do not like high levels of nitrogen. For my potted green-leaved vrieseas and guzmanias, I use a general slow-release fert with approx. equal parts of N and K, lower P. When growing my broms epiphytically, they get an occasional spray of the specially-designed brom foliar fertiliser, or none at all - but I have noticed better growth rate when I do feed them.

    In no way am I suggesting that this is the "correct and best" way to fertilise your broms - it's what works for me.

    Due to so many variables to take into account, it might be best to ask those who live near you, and who appear to grow their broms well, what they use - and/or experiment to find the best results in your own backyard.

    Phew! - sorry about the scroller, but I hope this helps you Nev, and anyone else who has pondered on this debatable issue.

    I'd be keen to hear of others' tried and true methods, as well.

    Cheers,
    Kerry

  • sunshine_qld
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I imagine I use the same product that you use Kerry. I also buy it at our brom society meetings.

  • LisaCLV
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I don't see any problem with posting the name of the product here, as long as the person who posts it is not taking orders for it!

    BTW, yes, I got that formula out of the Baensch's book. I have not tried it myself, so cannot vouch for its efficacy. I do know from repeated experience that a sudden burst of nitrogen can completely ruin a Neo's appearance, whereas not fertilizing at all gives foliar disease free rein on your plants, which is just as bad. Also that Osmocote and other brands with similar construction (resin outer coating) are notorious N-dumpers in our tropical climate. Nutricote is somewhat better, as the entire pellet is fused, rather than just having a hard outer shell.

    I'm surprised you've had trouble finding a balanced fertilizer, Kerry. Most of what's available here seems to be 13-13-13 or 14-14-14. Of course there are flower booster formulas too, although as you say, the potassium is generally low on those.

  • bromadams
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    How many Nutricote type pellets do you put on a newly potted Neo pup? I guess I do 4-12 pellets depending upon the size. I put mulch in my potting mix, so initially it absorbs the N and then after a while starts to release it.

  • hotdiggetydam
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I use potash to push the 'K' up in the soil.

  • LisaCLV
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    We add the Nutricote to our media at 2 different rates, which I mix and match depending on the variety, pot size, what I'm trying to acheive and how it has responded in the past. I don't know what that comes out to in number of pellets per pup, or per cubic inch or whatever. It's more instinctive, kind of like cooking. ;-)

  • hotdiggetydam
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thats a good way to put it Lisa ..a pinch here ..a dash there...Nutricote is a good product...I top dress with it twice a year plus foliar feedings in the growing season. With the higher 'K' I have noticed the plants more tolerant to cold and heat and far less stresed and it doesn't mess up the color in the Neo's like 'N' does

  • bromadams
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    What we need is a simple test to figure out if we have too much or too little NPK.

  • kerry_t_australia
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    O.K. - as I'm not getting any commissions, here is the name of the company which sells specially-designed brom fertiliser in South-east Queensland (Australia). It's called "Horticultural Solutions", and run by a bloke named Wolfgang. He also sells specific orchid fertiliser. The 3 month, buffered slow-release product is called "MAG-COTE 424". He also recommends a calcium-nitrate mix(?) in conjunction with the Mag-Cote (but I haven't tried it). I can't remember the name of the foliar fert - it lasts a long time and I've lost the associated info when I put it in my own container.
    The contact info, if anyone is interested, can be found on the net by "googling" Horticultural Solutions.

    Bromadams - you work out and explain the simple test, and I'll give it a go! I don't count the pellets, but just lightly sprinkle them either on top of mix, or through it.

    Sunshine Tam - are you a member of the Gold Coast brom society? Does Wolfgang's mix work well for your broms?

    HDD - potash sounds like a good idea, but how do you know how much to use, how often, when, etc.?
    We have a seaweed extract product called "Seasol", which is also recommended as a general tonic and strengthener of plants. When I remember, I occasionally spray a weak dilution on my brom seedlings, and potted broms. It contains no nitrogen or phosphorus, but elements of potassium and other oceanic/seaweedy goodies - but geez it stinks!

    Lisa - I don't know why we don't have balanced NPK fertiliser easily available (commercially) in Oz. I'm guessing it might have something to do with the number of Aussie natives grown in gardens, which hate phosphorous - but even specialised citrus or rose food still has low phosphorous levels. Nearly all the available general fertilisers have higher N, low P, and in between K. Do any Aussies know why this is?
    BTW - for flower and fruit booster formulas, the K (potassium) is HIGH, and the P (phosphorous) is LOW. I added this again so as not to confuse our readers! (someone up above did a typo on this :) - oopsy).

    K

  • emery73
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I also use a orchid fertiliser, one a week with a weak dose, which I spray both my orchids and bromeliads, and I noticed they seem to be loving it. I don't like the pellets, as I noticed loss of colour in my broms with frequent watering due to the heat or due to rain showers.

  • sunshine_qld
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Kerry I am a member of Caboolture brom society.
    The ones who use it are happy with its use. I mix a pinch in each pot before planting.
    Must try the seasol on mine.

  • LisaCLV
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Kerry, most of the bloom booster formulas I've seen have a high middle number, like 15-30-15 or 10-30-20. That would be the P (phosphorous). The K may not actually be low, but it's not the highest number.

  • splinter1804
    Original Author
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hi again everyone, thanks for all the feedback for my original question on NPK - Lisa, it seems that the bloom booster ratios vary considerably as we have a water soluble one here in Aust. which has a ratio of 15.8: 6.7: 25.3.

    Regarding the Seaweed product Kerry mentioned, as she said it is not marketed as a fertilizer but as a "tonic". It's a wonderful product which I have used as remedial treatment after severe hail damage where the hailstones were like small oranges and my exposed broms and vegetables looked like green confetti spread all around the garden.

    I have also used it after we had a heatwave on New Years Day a few years back where my exposed broms and vegies suffered severe heat damage as well as during a three day cold snap the following year where the exposed broms and vegies suffered severe cold damage.

    The plants bounced back much quicker than they had in the past from similar damage. However knowing what I do now, I should have used it as a preventitive treatment rather than a remedial one due to the following claims made by the manufacturer:

    Frost tolerance: It reduces frost damage, by lowering the temperature at which plant cells will freeze. This 'anti-freeze' effect reduces plant damage and hastens the return to productive growth once the temperature improves.

    Heat tolerance: It significantly increases a plant's heat tolerance and is taken up systemically, so it assists the whole plant. It can also aid in the return to productive growth following hot days.

    Drought tolerence: The same mechanism that protects against heat also provides significant protection against drought stress. It can even reverse the effects of dehydration after a single foliar application.

    Disease tolerance: It has been consistantly reported that plants treated with it demonstrate reduced incidence and severity of disease.

    Improved plant establishment: It contains naturally occurring plant hormones which stimulate root growth needed for rapid establishment of new plantings. It reduces the effect of transplant shock. (I get excellent results by giving my baby seedlings a soak in it before I plant them up and a good watering in with it after they have been planted.

    There are other benefits as well, just google the brand name to check them out and look at the fact sheet.

    I think there is also an international branch of the company so it could also be available for many of our brom friends on this forum.

    Thanks for the feedback once again, all the best, Nev

  • LisaCLV
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Gee, I guess plants down under must use nutrients the opposite way they do on this side of the equator! Must be the lack of gravity.... ;-)

  • kerry_t_australia
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    LOL Lisa! Yes, must be the lack of gravity down under! That must be why my hair grows upwards, and makes me three foot taller...:)

    K

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