Thanks for writing this up Kerry! I have to admit I did have to read it over a second time to make sure I got it down. Too bad these things didn't grow with barcodes on them huh?

For good measure here is the one from the BSSF show (shown by Karl Green):
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Wow, thanks Kerry! Elton Leme has written so many books, and while the ones I've seen are excellent, they tend to be fairly narrow in their focus, so I've avoided the temptation to buy most of them. This one sounds like it would be worth laying out the money, however. My eyes tend to glaze over too when it gets into the minutiae of sepal lengths, etc. I'm more of an eyeball/gut-feeling kind of gal, but you have to be able to back that up with something, whether it's floral morphology or DNA.

Thanks also for taking the time to call Bruce and get the inside story. He is active in the Heliconia society, but I didn't realize he was into broms too. So if "carcharodon Rubra" is really N. gigas, that brings us back to the question of what is the real carcharodon? That species was described long before Tiger and these other Johnny-come-latelys appeared on the scene.

As to N. pernambucana, the second FCBS photo doesn't have the big spines and hot pink tips of Olive's plant or Mike's silvomontana photo. Of course this is a minor detail, as they could easily be different clones within the same species. If they are all silvomontana though, then what is the real pernambucana and why are those 2 non-pernambucanas still on FCBS as such?

You're welcome, Mike and Lisa :)

Mike - thanks for re-posting that photo of what has to be one of the most glorious neoregelias I have seen. I wouldn't be surprised if Michael now gets inundated with requests for N. silvomontana.
Yep - an ingrown bar-code system would be so much easier. :)

Lisa - good point about questioning why those 2 incorrect photos are still on the fcbs photo index. I might send this thread to Derek, and see what he says. That leaf width issue may be holding up the resolving of matters?

I could be breaching copyright here, but I have photographed some text and images from the book.....

Regards the supposed real carcharodon, the only reference to it in Siquiera and Leme's whole book is below.

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Leme intimates that carcharodon was wrongly described and it is really silvomontana (NOT gigas - aargh!!) The thot plickens....

Here are images taken from the book of the elusive N. pernambucana.
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And images of N. gigas.
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Comparisons of flowers and fruit on N. pernambucana (left) and N.silvomontana (right).
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And an image of N. silvomontana.
{{gwi:455882}}

And just to liven up this thread, here is a final image copied from the book of a cohabitant of the N. pernambucana complex in Brazil - representing one of our most common sins??

{{gwi:455883}}

Cheers,
Kerry

I think you need one of those residents in your garden, Kerry! I wonder how they get along with pythons....

That is odd that there is no more mention of carcharodon than that, but I'm not sure that means that carch Rubra is really silvomontana, only that silvomontana was wrongly identified as a carcharodon. That's how I read it anyway, but of course I'm not getting the whole context. I need to get that book. The Rubra I have doesn't quite look like that picture of gigas either, but minor foliage characteristics do not define a species. All of those pictured above are so similar looking that I'd be hard pressed to say what the defining characteristics are for each one, but I'm sure the text goes into that. The difference in fruit color is interesting. I don't think I've ever seen a Neo with gold berries.

So they don't consider carcharodon or pascoaliana to be part of the same complex? They all have fairly enormous floral structure compared to most Neos.

If a resident of MY garden, that three-toed sloth would scare the living daylights out of me! Give me the pythons, brown snakes, spiders, ticks, leeches (well maybe not the leeches) and goannas any day!

You're probably right, Lisa, about the silvomontana being wrongly identified as a carcharodon at some time or other. But I don't know where carcharodon and pascoaliana fit into the scheme of things.
Hopefully, those dedicated few who are comparing notes and characteristics on all the carch. varieties and pernambucana complex, and possibly pascoaliana as well? - will reveal all before too long.

Or anybody else who might find out?

Cheers,
Kerry

I hear that orphaned sloths make for interesting pets. Apparently if a baby sloth falls out of tree the mother won't usually go and get it due to the danger of being on the ground. Sometimes these babies are "rescued" and taken in as pets since they can't be returned to the wild.

Interesting pets, maybe, but they'd be hell on the furniture!

I got this from Chester and thought it was interesting:

And about some carcharodons...notes by Chester Skotak, Costa Rica

Neoregelia 'Tiger' was found in Rio de Janeiro state, Estrada Marica, Itaborai on the road to Rio Bonito at the 10 km marker. The true location was first discovered by Rafael Oliveira de Faria and Chester Skotak in 2004. These plants grow on rocks or as epiphytes. When I first saw this plant growing in a very tall tree I remember thanking God that goats cant fly but in the end it didnÂt really matter. That road has now been paved and the forest severely cut, as last I heard.

Neoregelia 'Macho' was grown and collected by Luiz (Luis) Correia de Araujo. He had them growing in giant clay pots around the restaurant he owned at the time. Several people brought back pups in the 90s, including me. The plant was found in Vargem Grande, Rio de Janeiro state.

Neoregelia 'Silver' was being grown at Pedro NahoumÂs nursery. I spoke with him recently about this Neo and he told me he acquired the plant from Roberto Menescal. It was collected in Vargem Grande also.

Neoregelia 'Rainbow' was found near Santa Maria de Madalena around 1995, Rio de Janeiro state. It was growing on rocks at the garbage dump. I was traveling with Rafael Oliveira, Pedro Nahoum, Jorge Gastin and Giorgio Croce. On this same road 2 kilometers further along we found Vriesea croceana, named in honor of Giorgio Croce.

These four Neoregelia species (16 plants total) were sent to the U.S.A. by me in the 90s to: Michael Kiehl, Dennis Cathcart, Wally Berg and Harry Luther. They each received four plants, one plant of each new species. Since they were all being called carcharodon at the time, I wanted to distribute these neoregelias in hopes of getting a valid species name on them and also get them into collections. Maybe one day this group will be sorted out. It should also be noted that these species are usually not found in colonies but as individuals or only a few plants and seem to be quite rare where they are found, leaving one to wonder how they even manage to propagate in the wild.

Kerry,Ripped off!I cant see your pictures.Has anyone else had the same problem?

Just realized this is an old post.Silly me.

Hi Kerry, Sharon and all

I missed the images, Kerry, but assume they were from Leme's book and fcbs or Bruce, maybe me too originally. There will be more published on this group and nothing is simple, like so many Brazilian complexes. They are evolution on the move! I have dissected blooms on most of them and confirmed gigas (some 'cultivars' in the Great White registered group that used to be named carcharodon Rubra, etc), silvomontana (incorrectly named as pernambucana which still doesn't seem to be in commercial cultivation)and carcharodon (Silver is very close to the original description and looks just like the old painting). Macho, Tiger, Rainbow, etc and all the in-betweens are also close taxonomically. Pascoaliana originates from way north in Bahia, kind of like a lost carcharodon).

Sharon cleared up many misconceptions, direct from Chester, as he had a big hand in the introduction of these great Neos into cultivation.

The species are brilliant and the hybrids are getting better and better. Just watch the names around though as misnamings abound, for instance, all of the variegates I've seen are carolinae hybrids, mine included! There are no variegated carcharodons only hybrids.

I'll post some carch Tiger hybrids soon that will confuse the notion of stripes, like an image negative!

Cheers, Pedro

Hi Kerry, Sharon and all

I missed the images, Kerry, but assume they were from Leme's book and fcbs or Bruce, maybe me too originally. There will be more published on this group and nothing is simple, like so many Brazilian complexes. They are evolution on the move! I have dissected blooms on most of them and confirmed gigas (some 'cultivars' in the Great White registered group that used to be named carcharodon Rubra, etc), silvomontana (incorrectly named as pernambucana which still doesn't seem to be in commercial cultivation)and carcharodon (Silver is very close to the original description and looks just like the old painting). Macho, Tiger, Rainbow, etc and all the in-betweens are also close taxonomically. Pascoaliana originates from way north in Bahia, kind of like a lost carcharodon).

Sharon cleared up many misconceptions, direct from Chester, as he had a big hand in the introduction of these great Neos into cultivation.

The species are brilliant and the hybrids are getting better and better. Just watch the names around though as misnamings abound, for instance, all of the variegates I've seen are carolinae hybrids, mine included! There are no variegated carcharodons only hybrids.

I'll post some carch Tiger hybrids soon that will confuse the notion of stripes, like an image negative!

Cheers, Pedro

Hi all,
No technical input here just to say good on you guys for putting in this huge effort to get this grand group of neo's named correctly. They are certainly worth the effort!!!