Hi Japie

I don't grow Ae. ampla myself but there is a picture of it in the FCBS Photo Index.

Sorrry I can't add any more, all the best, Nev.

That's where I saw the picture of it and why I want it, Nev!

Ok, here is a bit more of an explanation: Ever since I saw Lisa's Hohenbergia castellanosii posted here, I wanted one. And some time later, I got it - not a very nice looking specimen, but I was glad to have it. Then I started giving it the TLC that I thought the plant needed to get nice yellow/green leaves with the big red tips. But my plant keep on giving me narrow leaves with very pointy tips and not a hint of red. Then the tips started to turn black and by closer inspection I saw that the black is dead tissue. I was growing it in full sun, so I moved it to a location where it gets morning and late afternoon sun as the leaves also burn in the midday sun. But it still looked sad.

Then I 'discovered' Aech ampla. And the description I got is that it looks very much like hoh castellanosii and gets confused with it sometimes. So I thought, maybe I have an Ae ampla, from there the narrow leaves. But no, the spines are like h. casta's.

And then I got an Ae ampla just last week! Also still young and green and it looks very much like the castellanosii and the spines are totally different.

So now I do have them both and I want to give it my best shot to grow them both so they can look like they supposed to look.

Here's hohenbergia castellanosii:
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And a close-up of the spines:
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And Aech ampla:
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So, if anybody has any growing tips for me, I would really appreciate it!

Thanks

Japie

Hi Japie,

I have been in touch with Bruce Dunstan, photographer of the Ae. ampla as is seen in the FCBS photo index. I asked him if he could shed some light on this brom (excuse the pun!).

Bruce's response is below. He has kindly given permission to be quoted, and to show another of his photos of the same plant.

"Aechmea ampla was spotted at Selby Gardens in 06, growing in all day full sun planted in shell grit, tough conditions. Harry said it is in the complex of red and yellow things that grow in coastal areas north of Rio heading up to Recife in the north. The plants share similar foliage colours, patterns etc. to capitalise on the same pollinators. Other examples are certainly H.castellanosii and Neoregelia johannis. It wasn't flowering unfortunately.
We, or should I say AQIS, killed two pups with gas."

NB. AQIS is the federal government body of the Australian Quarantine and Inspection Service.

Here is another photo, by Bruce Dunstan, of the same plant growing at Selby Gardens, Florida.
{{gwi:457536}}

So Japie, it looks like you need to give the TLC a miss, and grow both broms hard, hard, hard! - if you want them to look like they're supposed to. Like Ae. pectinata, your Hohenbergia castellanosii will not colour red from the leaf ends until it is about to flower - acting as a pollinator attractor. Perhaps the same goes for the Ae. ampla, with those specimens photographed by Bruce possibly very close to flowering.
I struggle with growing H. castellanosii well in my garden. Its leaves go almost yellow in full sun, develops a compact form, and it pups like fury, but always gets marked and goes backwards each winter. I have yet to flower one - so nary a sign of red on its leaves. I grow another one in my green house, where it gets less damage in winter, but its leaves are greener from less light, and 'tis larger and lanky-looking - although the leaf tips stay healthy.
One fine day us Aussies might get the chance to grow Ae. ampla from imported seed from U.S.-grown specimens - unless someone can get (has got??) vegetative offsets to survive the gassing. Brazil is no longer an option to import from. I suspect they would grow best in the tropical climes of north Qld. - closer to those conditions of their natural habitat.

Good luck with yours Japie. I hope the above information might help. I'd be keen to see/hear how your aechmea and hohenbergia develop.

Cheers,
Kerry

I think you have been sold an Aechmea lingulata instead of the Hohenbergia . The habit is nothing like it should be, and the black leaf tips look exactly like Aechmea lingulata .

Kerry, thanks for all that information!

But I want to question one statement that you (and Bruce and Harry) made:

"The plants share similar foliage colours, patterns etc. to capitalise on the same pollinators. Other examples are certainly H.castellanosii and Neoregelia johannis."
And
"Like Ae. pectinata, your Hohenbergia castellanosii will not colour red from the leaf ends until it is about to flower - acting as a pollinator attractor."

Using johannis as an example of being in that 'complex of red an yellow things', does not necessarily means that the red tips come only at - or just before - flowering. Neo johannis has red tips the moment it grows up a bit and not just before flowering.

And if I remember correctly, Lisa posted a picture of something her husband brought home (hoh castellanosii) with beautiful reds tips and no flower. And quite some time later, she posted a picture with it in the background, and still having red tips. So, the impression I got, is that castellanosii, like johannes, has red tips when it starts getting mature and is exposed to enough sun.

Aroideana, thanks for your info, although that was not the kind of news that Ireally wanted. As it means I must start my search all over again for a castellanosii! Do you have a nice picture of Ae lingulata perhaps? The one on FCBS shows basically just the flower and in Baench's book I can't see enough detail to convince me that it is the same as my plant.

Japie

Japie , yes my little H.castellanossi have red tips and they are only about 30-20 cms tall . Smallest one came to me from WA and it did not have them when I got it about 6 months ago . But after all summer in scorching full sun , it has hardened up . The habit of your Ae. lingulata [ sorry thats what it is ] is much more open than the Ho', expect more compact shape . I see John has added a leaf tip at the base of the pictured infl. on the FCBS pic. This sp. need a little more protection as you have found out .
Put my close up pic in the gallery .

Thanks aroidiana. What about a picture of that Hoh castellanosii of yours?

Japie

Hi Japie,
Yes - you are correct to question a couple of those statements. My own statement, in reference to no red on leaves of Hoh. castellanosii until flowering approaches (like Ae. pectinata), is probably not correct. I realised this after seeing other photos of yet-to-flower H.c. with red tips. What I should have said was that the red tips extend further down the leaves when flowering is near. Sorry about that. Still, my own specimens do not have any red on their tips - maybe I have a furphy!

Regards Bruce's (and Harry's) statement - they are not saying that Neo. johannis has no red until close to flowering - just that when in flower, those three plants with predominant red and yellow attract the same pollinators.

I am also a bit worried by 'roid's comments. For a while now I have pondered over the difference between what we call Ae. lingulata in Australia, and Ae. lingulatoides. I do grow what has been labeled Ae. lingulata, which does have very prominent black terminal spines of the leaves. I will check out the leaf spines and take some photos - stay tuned. I wish the FCBS photo index showed all varieties as complete plants, and not just the flower spike - as in the only photo of Ae. lingulata. It makes identifying plants that more difficult - and some type of scale/size indicator would be helpful too.

Cheers,
Kerry

Oops - several posts at same time here, folks. I wrote my last message before seeing Japie's and 'roid's latest additions.
Just to clarify things Japie, 'roid lives in tropical north Queensland, and therefore has better success with those cold-sensitive broms with which I struggle. Maybe it is combined heat, humidity, and full sun which only brings out the red tips on Hoh. cast.?
And to complicate things further, my (supposed) Hoh. cast. has black (dead?) tips like Japie's so-called specimen. Japie's also has a slight white scurf to the lime leaves, like mine. 'Roid - does your Ae. lingulata have that too?

K

Since my name has already been bandied about here, I guess I might as well put my two cents in. As far as I can tell, Hoh. castellanosii's red tips are a response to being grown hard hard hard, as Kerry has recommended, and nothing to do with flowering.

A bit of background: the plant that Japie refers to (that my husband brought home a couple of years ago) was at that time more yellow than green, with bright red pigment extending nearly halfway down the leaves. He got it from a friend who had been growing it in a pot on her driveway in the full blasting sun. She had another clump in the same location that was equally showy, and I admired it several times when visiting her. To my knowledge, none of them have ever bloomed. When I put the plant into my 40% shadehouse it did green up a bit and lost some of the intensity of the hot red. Then later on I gave it a bit of food and it eventually went completely green. It wasn't just me, though. Our friend just recently decided to let me have her other clump too, and I was rather shocked to find that it too had lost all of the red! She hadn't fed it or shaded it, so I can only assume it must have been as a result of overcast winter weather, which we are just now coming out of. Next time I go down the hill I'll check to see if it has black leaf tips.

At any rate, I'm 100% sure it is the same plant I saw earlier, and aside from being a bit yellower and not quite as strappy, it doesn't look that different from Japie's plant, particularly in texture and spines. Since both his and hers came from the same source (yup, Michael's), the odds of Japie having mistakenly been sent Ae. lingulata or anything else seem pretty remote to me. Michael's showy clump of H. castellanosii just outside his first shadehouse is a big attention-getter with visitors, and he's not likely to confuse it with anything else. In my opinion Japie's plant just needs less coddling and more exposure to the elements. Of course any sudden move from shady to sunny can burn a plant, even a species as tough as this one.

Kerry, does Bruce have anything to say about Ae. ampla's flower, or what its nearest relatives might be?

Thanks for your input Lisa. Your experiences concur with mine, except I still haven't achieved the red tips on H.c. - but I'm working on it! I agree that Japie's Hoh. castellanosii seems correctly named.
The source also confirms its reliability of correct name, as Lisa has explained.

Ha! While many of you on foreign shores were sleeping, Detective Tate snuck out and took close up shots of the spines of the plants in question - it's daytime here, and tomorrow already.
And here is the morning coffee evidence for Japie :)

O.K. #1 shows my poor specimen of Hoh. caste... which grows in the garden, subjected to the elements, sun most of day. We are heading into winter now, so it's not as yellow as it was in mid-summer. See the dead leaf tips and yucky brown patches...and no red tips :(
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#2 My other Hc which has been growing in very bright light in my polycarbonate green house. A healthier looking plant, but still can't get those tips red yet - no fertiliser used either.
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#3 Close-up of spines on my Hc, just like Japie's Hc.
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#4 Garden-grown Hc on left, green house grown Hc on right.
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#5 Introducing the brom I bought labeled as Ae. lingulata, to which 'Roid refers. It is the brom behind the 2 Hc plants. Admittedly, it has been growing in the garden in a lot less light than the other 2 broms.
{{gwi:457541}}

#6 Close-up of spines on Ae. lingulata, showing large dark terminal spine.
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#7 Even closer-up, showing the very different and tiny spines along the leaves of Ae. lingulata, compared to Hc.
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#8 Lo and behold! A flower spike is forming on my Ae. lingulata (lingulatoides?) - yay! Thanks 'Roid. I wouldn't have noticed if I hadn't pulled the plant out of the garden and spruced it up a bit for its photo shoot.
{{gwi:457544}}

Can you check out the leaf spines on your Ae. lingulata, please 'Roid? I'm curious to know if they are the same as mine.

Back to the original Ae. ampla - Lisa, that's all Bruce told me that I included earlier. I'll send this link to him, and he might be able to elaborate. Or, maybe ask Harry on Brom-L discussion group?

K

Well , I no longer have an Ae lingulata , so cannot check . But after seeing yours Kerry , I take back what I said about Japies Ho c .. it was mainly the habit of it that made me think lingulata , and esp. the black tips . It is a bit lax as well ,, fools rush in ah, .

That coffee was all the more wonderful being accompanied by such nice photographic evidence, Kerry! Sorry, I overslept totally and did not have even a minute to type a reply quickly: Thank you very much for the pictures, now I feel better about both my plants. SO now I can put all my energy into it to get them both looking like they should. Or shall I say, put all my energy into ignoring them so they can do their own thing! So, between me and you, lets see who comes up first with some bloody evidence!

Japie

This is my original Hoh when I got it, about 3 years ago. I may have exagerated a bit about the amount of red, but it's still pretty striking:

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...and greened up slightly after a year in the shadehouse (still no food). Still has the red tips though, just not quite so much:

{{gwi:457546}}

...and how it looks now, after winter and a light feeding. Interestingly, there's more red on the pup than on the mother plant. Not sure why that would be.

{{gwi:457547}}

It still looks better than the new ones, though (Ken divided up the clump and treated it for scale):

{{gwi:457548}}

Now I'm starting to wonder, because these were not only not fed, they were just stuck into a cement block with no media at all! I'll have to ask my friend if she may have moved it into a more sheltered location since I first saw it. Otherwise, it seems like there should be at least a hint of red tip there, winter or no winter. At any rate, I'm going to pot them up and put them in as much sun as I can, and see what happens.

Thanks Lisa, while I am ignoring my H castellanosii, I will keep on looking at these pictures of yours!

H. castellanosii was one of my dream plants, there is an incredible photo of this plant, but now when I can see it's difficult to get the red leaves even in Hawaii, I am awake

Tomas

Here is a link that might be useful: H. c.

Hi all.

Tomas - thanks for that photo link of Hoh. castellanosii. Fantastic specimen! Yes, I think I have been rudely awoken from my dream as well, regards this plant looking any good under my growing conditions. Such is the challenge of trying to grow what's "greener on the other side of the fence".

You're on, Japie! I might need to get the red texta out for those tips, me thinks!

Lisa - if your tips are losing their red, what hope is there for us?

Back again to the original brom in question - Ae. ampla. Bruce has sent me a photo of the herbarium specimen data (thanks Bruce!). As he said, the flower looks pretty dull. I expected it probably would, which is why the leaves might need to turn on the colour at flowering time to attract pollinators.
I darkened the image so as to make it more legible, but that's the best I could do.

{{gwi:457549}}

Cheers,
Kerry

A dried herbarium specimen, Kerry? LOL...... I am soooooo *not* a botanist. I need color!!! Ah well, thanks for the effort, and thanks to Bruce too. At least I can see it's a branched inflo and not one of the former Streptocalyx alliance or something like that. I'll bet it's green, like Hoh. castellanosii, but who needs a flashy flower when you have red tips?

Here is the photo that first got me dreaming about H cast:

{{gwi:457550}}

Having been disappointed by similar photos on numerous occasions, however, I just assumed it probably wouldn't have the red tips out of its native habitat. It wasn't until I saw my friend's plant that I started to get excited again. Hopefully with summer now upon us I can get it back to its former glory.

Thanks Tomas! I am sure the colour on that picture is just a bit over-saturated but it is look gorgeous.

Kerry, and I have to agree with Lisa, not very apetising to look at that picture, but sure we can learn a lot from that!

And Lisa, that picture is very nice, but when I dream of H castellanosii, I saw that picture of the plant your husband brought home - the first one of the series that you posted above! I suppose it is that glowing lemon yellow fading into green that is off-setting those red tips so beautifully!

I noticed something else on my Hoh. Even though not performing colour-wise, some time ago it pushed 3 pups almost simultaneously. And I thought the more I remove, the more plants I will have to experiment in different locations and the more pups the plant will make. So I have removed 2 already. And all of them, including the mother, have that pointy look to the leaves. The last pups still attached to the mother, is developing now that more blunt/rounded leaf tips. So maybe it is a sign that the plant will perform much better if grown hard and at the same time, left to clump up! Forcing itself to be grown much harder as there will be even more mouths to feed (so to speak) if there are a lot of plants in the same pot with poor nutrition.

And there is already a 4th pup peeping out next to the other one. So, I am not going to touch it now for years to come - I do have those other 2 pups I can play with!

Japie

Japie, you surely are right about the colors, but it is also the contrast of the black tips and the red leaves that makes it so particular.

Tomas

Japie, I agree the blunt tips are probably a good sign. I just talked to my friend and asked her about the location. She said that she had moved it to an out-of-the-way (and much more shaded) spot once her grandson started toddling around, as she didn't want him to become impaled on it! Hence the green color and more pointy tips. She also confirmed that it had never bloomed, and that even stuck with no media in a cement block sitting on the hot concrete, it never ever sunburned. You just have to stress it out and harden it up.

Lol!....I know where you live Japie!ð...and I know you have pups of your amplas....but I will wait in line like I said...but be warned, I am not a very patient man!ð

My amplas are heavily armed and they can protect themselves. Be warned, they are ferrocious fighters and will not be intimidated by a Knight in shining armour from Malmesbury!

hello guys my name is Jose ! I bought this 2 bromeliads ampla , some one can tell me if they are real aechmea amplas and when I can expect they turn more red , I set those in all day full sun I live in south Florida

thanks so much for your time

thank you splinter 1804 !!!

I think its in the 7th from last in total photos. What is that Zebra striped Brom to the right?

Hi everyone.

Stanofh - Do you mean Lisa's picture on the 8th May with the Hohenbergia in the centre? If so, I think the plants on the right are possibly Ae. orlandianas.

All the best, Nev.