Mend and Alverez are both cv of Ae.Lueddemanniana. The seed was variable as it was wild collected
Seed Parent: lueddemanniana
Mend cv. of lueddemanniana - (See 'Alvarez', 'Pinkie', 'Blanca Alvarez', 'Rodco' & 'Rodco Inverta') - (Name is derived from (M)Mildred Merkel, (E)Edward Ensign who sowed the seed, (N)Julian Nally who gave the seed to Ensign, and (D)in memory of Ralph Davis) - Albo-marginated in white becoming bright pink-red in good light - hardy and attractive - long lasting first white then shiny purple berries - seedling mutation - open vase-shaped rosette to 18" tall and 24" wide.

Alvarez cv. of lueddemanniana from wild collection - (See 'MEND', 'Rodco', 'Pinkie' & 'Blanca Alvarez') - Tropiflora said, "Slow growing and has a medio-picta variegation - a broad stripe of pinkish orange up the center of each leaf when grown in bright light" - From observation, a variegated upright rosette w/green margins and lineations within the white center - glazed in intense red-orange overall in good light.

Nev, I suspect the mother of your seedlings was probably Alvarez. I have tried growing seeds from Rodco and gotten nothing but albinos, so I'm 99.9% sure Mend would do the same, being another albomarginate (gotta watch my words now since I'm being challenged on what I say).

Alvarez seedlings would come out looking like plain lueddemanniana, or perhaps lueddemanniana Rubra, since there is some reddish pigment there. Now, it is possible that your your seeds could have come from one of those two, but if that were the case, why would it have that "Mend forma Alvarez" added on? My guess is that whoever wrote that figured that all variegated forms must be cvs. of Mend. For all I know they could be sports of it, but the currently accepted nomenclature is to just use a single cultivar name, in this case Alvarez.

As to what you call the seedlings, that's a good question. Obviously they're not Alvarez or any other cv. for that matter. You'll be correct in calling them lueddemanniana, since that applies to all forms of the species, but if you want to get more specific you might just put A. lueddemanniana (seedling from Alvarez) on the tag, unless someone has a better idea.

I've had the same question about what to call variegates that revert to unvariegated, whether they be species or hybrids. I've often seen people selling, for example, an unvariegated chantinii labelled Samurai. Well, the pup may have come from Samurai, but if it's not variegated you can't call it that, since the variegation is what defines the cv. In that case you can just call it chantinii, but what about a N. Kahala Dawn that has lost its variegation? I generally just write (reverted) after the name on the tag, but there ought to be a protocol for this kind of thing.

Just had another thought. You could call them A. Alvarez F2.

Lisa - regards a reverted variegate. Derek has suggested that we use the term 'Novar' eg. N. Kahala Dawn Novar. It's an abbreviation of "no variegation".

K

Thanks Kerry. I'll go with that, although I have a feeling it will confuse the average plant buyer and probably be considered part of the name. Better to put it in parentheses, I think.

Yep Lisa - I agree, or a dash at least.

K

Hi to all you helpful people who posted the answers to my questions plus your extra info and suggestions on the Lueddemannia seedlings.

It's realy great to be able to ask a question and get answers from the wealth of knowledge contained by the members of this forum from areas around the world. Ah! - the wonders of modern technology.

Just one more question, for Kerry this time. Kerry do/did you grow this plant and how did it handle the frost?

Thanks once again everyone, all the best, Nev.

I am going to order a 'Rodco' from Lisa's neck of the woods if they dont want my arms and legs for it. I like the plant

It's a really nice cv, HDD, I think you'll like it better than Mend. Let me know if you ever come across Aurora too. That's high on my wish list.

Nev,
Yes I did and do grow some various forms of Ae. lueddemanniana. THAT frost of July, 2007 in The Channon here was unprecedented and I have to believe will never happen again, at least not in my lifetime. For two long nights in a row the temperature was -8 C. We had experienced very dry conditions preceding it, and the frost got into my treed garden like never before. My garden looked like the holocaust after it. Until then, I could grow the various forms of Ae. lueddemanniana quite easily, and they survived my usual winters where temps would occasionally and briefly get down to -2 C. The surrounding paddocks get occasional light frosts, but the microclimate of my garden usually protects my broms - except for the real tropical ones like Ae. chantinii.

Here are some before and just after photos of some of my lueddemannianas. Prepare yourself for the shock!

Ae. 'Mend' - before.
{{gwi:512846}}

Ae. 'Mend' - just after THE mother of all black frosts. Hard to recognise, but 'Mend' is the plant in centre (slightly right) of photo. It died - no pups.
{{gwi:512848}}

Ae. 'Alvarez' - before.
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Ae. 'Alvarez' - the brown thing in middle of pic below the water tank, and other broms, after. Also - deady-bones.
{{gwi:512850}}

I also grew/grow the species lueddemanniana. This pic shows it just after THE frost. It's the brown clump top right of foreground pine.
{{gwi:512851}}

I took this photo this morning, 16 months after the frost. Surprisingly, the species DID pup afterwards, and now has two healthy plants.
{{gwi:512852}}

I completely lost 'Mend' and 'Alvarez', but have bought another 'Mend' since then, which sailed through this last winter without a blemish. The recovery of so many broms has been amazing. I completely lost about 20% of my considerable brom collection, as well as many trees, shrubs, and foliage sub-tropical plants.
My garden looks good again now, and these frosted photos above are a sad memory.

So Nev! - the answer to your question is - yes, Ae. lueddemanniana CAN handle light frosts if protected, but not black ones of -8 C!

Cheers,
Kerry

Lisa if aurora is still being grown Florida would be the best bet..The only place I found Rodco is in your area

I recently picked up a small Mend, $6, and an good size Alverez, $25, at a local sale. I'm not sure which I like better. The Alverez is strappy and doesn't have much red yet. Maybe some good winter sun will color it up.

Kerry, was your black frost predicted? Did you have enough of a warning to bring in the potted plants?

No Bromadams - predicted temps for each of those nights in our rural district were -1 C. Most of my broms are attached to trees, or growing in mounds on ground - so they always stay put, year in year out. Those potted in my large shade house were the worst affected, to my surprise and dismay. 'Twas to do with its position and the lie of the land. Every brom in there was plugged solid with ice.
Isolated pockets within the district were hit harder than others. We were the unlucky ones. The older locals said they hadn't experienced such damage in "30", "40", "50" years. We are low-lying, by a constantly-running, freshwater creek. Ours is a rain forest area.
Bringing potted plants indoors had never been a consideration before. However, I did spray many of my broms with a supposed frost-repellent product at the beginning of winter this year. Much to my relief, there was no repeat of last year. But nothing will save them in -8C, if left exposed.

Cheers,
Kerry

ooooh thats not pretty at all Kez!!!!

Bromadams Alvarez takes on a pinky/peachy colour in good sun....

Dennis

Kerry, what was the name of the frost repellent or would naming it breach the rules of this forum?

If so, could you email me the name at mayailsa@bigpond.com

Thanks in advance, All the best, Nev.

Spliner the spray products are a polyemer type product and are suppsed to last about 45 days..it gives about a 6 degree protection,
A good quality frost blanket will do the same thing and last many years.

Nev, others mention different products available so I think it's O.K. to do that on this forum.
For us Aussies, there are two polymer sprays available - one is called Envy, the other is Yate's Stressguard. The former is a concentrated mix which needs diluting. The latter is pre-mixed - available at Bunnings, and quite expensive. Envy works out far cheaper - I bought mine at a Mitre 10 outlet. Both products supposedly protect your plants down to -2 or -3C. Frost cloth gives the same protection, but is a pain to have to cover many plants each night, then uncover each morning after.
Richard told me he used frost cloth on some of his alcantareas growing exposed in his garden this last winter, but they still got damaged at -6C.

Cheers,
K

Hotdiggertydam and Kerry - Thanks a lot for the feedback.
All the best, nev