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Canistrum seidelianum

Posted by paul_t23 Coastal Sydney (My Page) on
Wed, Nov 18, 09 at 14:52

Hi everyone,

I just happened to be wandering though the shadehouse with camera in hand (as one does) and thought I had better get some photos of this while it was in flower. The elegant shape and intricate patterns make it one of my favourites and the wierdo flower looks like it belongs to something else.

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With a bit more background - one of those plants that can really set off a scene
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It looks fantastic with light coming though the leaves to produce a rosy stained-glass effect. This pic doesn't capture much of it, but I won't be able to get to it in decent lighting while the flower is still looking good, so ..
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Cheers, Paul


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Canistrum seidelianum

Hey Paul, beautifully grown - well done.
A favorite of mine also and the flower head last for ages.

Cheers Richard


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RE: Canistrum seidelianum

Hi Paul , yes one of my pet pricklies as well ,however i tend to agree that the plant and the flower do not seem related ,the plant would pass for a Aechmea,and does so easely cross pollinate with them that it seems a close relationship is there (?) well grown,
Jack


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RE: Canistrum seidelianum

I love this species too, and yours looks very well grown, Paul. I do wish it had the bigger inflorescence of some of the other canistrums, but it has its charm. As Jack says, it does cross fairly easily with some of the similar-looking Aechmeas, i.e. orlandiana, correia-araujoi etc.


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RE: Canistrum seidelianum

How about crossing it with Canistropsis seidelii?


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RE: Canistrum seidelianum

Hi Paul, as Lisa and Jack said, these Brazilian species hybridise freely and with some other genera like Aechmea and Quesnelia. I did this cross a few years back to be Hohenistrum, but Elton moved H disjuncta into Aechmea so it's another Canmea. I find the banding holds firm, even better, with the hybrids of Can seidelianum. Looks much better under 50% shadecloth too. They are fantastic plants whether potted or mounted - and a nice specimen too.

Canmea Zebrepton


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RE: Canistrum seidelianum

That's a nice looking hybrid, Pedro. I'm assuming you used the mottled form of disjuncta and not the green one?

That's a species I've never seen in the trade, I'd love to get hold of one. I see FCBS still has it listed as a Hohenbergia. I'm not sure what the differences are, but the inflorescence certainly looks close to Ae. correia-araujoi or fosteriana. I suspect that if we ever go over to a taxonomic system based on DNA rather than morphology, all of these species might be put in one genus. The relationship between them, even across generic lines, seems closer than between the different subgenera of Aechmea.

Here is my xCanmea Nani Ko'olau (Can. seidelianum x Ae. correia-araujoi):

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Still pending registration until I get a bloom that I can verify came from this clone. I did the cross both ways and got 2 virtually indistinguishable grexes. This is a flower from one of them, so I imagine it will be much the same:

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RE: Canistrum seidelianum

Hi Lisa

I used an in between form and was surprised at the mottling. Ross has it under shadecloth where the marbling really stands out. I'm still getting my areas fixed up after the endless floods and will eventually get all of this Brazilian type stuff outside where the colours and shapes will be better. I haven't had seed on the black banded form yet(ex Selby I think). Your cross is stunning too - there are clones in Australia too (Olive and Cheryl have it). I did quite a lot of this sort of cross and the mottling is nearly always strong. One is Can fosterianum x seidelianum which I registered as Black Sands.

Cheers, Pedro


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RE: Canistrum seidelianum

Yes, Olive and Cheryl got some of my culls, so they are around Oz, but the named selection probably isn't yet. Not a huge difference, but some are a bit better than others.


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RE: Canistrum seidelianum

Great info, plants and photos all!

Here are some photos of Pedro's Can. 'Black Sands' before and during flowering, growing on a Bauhinia tree in my garden. See the way the stolons wrap around the branch - the clever thing!

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K :)


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RE: Canistrum seidelianum

Great looking plants everyone. I love those banded/mottled plants. It seems to me that they all should be fairly closely related...otherwise I just don't see any convergent evolutionary drivers for plants in different genera to come to such a similar patterning. Are they from close regions? Do they occupy slightly different habitats (weather, elevation, or canopy level?) or somewhat similar?
-andy


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RE: Canistrum seidelianum

I got a batch of seeds from some Canistrums ex. a big collection near Brisbane many years ago . I really wanted lots of C triangularis , and was pleased when they were the only ones to sprout . But after growing on , none have the habit of this sp. All lok very interesting and are most likely crosses with C fosterianum & seidelianum . I hope to flower some soon .


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RE: Canistrum seidelianum

Hi everyone,

Thanks for your comments and Lisa, Pedro and Kerry, that is some really interesting info on those hybrids. I have one that I've been trying to get my head around, so now I'm much better informed - but no less uncertain! I bought it on eBay around 2 years ago as a small plant of Ae. correia-araujoi, then as it grew it became rapidly apparent that it was not. The seller subsequently indicated to me that he now understood it to be a hybrid of Ae. correia-araujoi, with the other parent uncertain but possibly a Canistrum. Recently I have been beginning to think maybe it was a mis-identified 'Bert', but Lisa, looking at your pics above, now I'm wondering if maybe it is an Ae. c-a hybrid with the other parent Can. seidelianum. Here it is.
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It is about 50cm tall and no sign of flowering yet. I guess I'll have to wait until then to get a better idea what might be in it, but even then, from the points you've made about how similar a lot of these combinations can be, I guess now that I'll never really know. Still, it is all interesting stuff regardless and I just love the plant, particularly when it lights up with the sun behind it.

Speaking of which, I unexpectedly managed to be at home this morning with a bit more light behind the Can. seidelianum, so I took another pic with it partly lit up.
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Cheers, Paul


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RE: Canistrum seidelianum

You should have a better idea if and when you ever see a bloom, Paul. It sure looks an awful lot like my Ae. Pali Ridge, which is Ae. correia-araujoi x Bert.

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Ae. Pali Ridge

Here, I found some better pictures of it:

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There's actually more than one clone, but they are so similar I can't tell them apart if I lose the tag.


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RE: Canistrum seidelianum

Lisa, those plants are stunning and there sure are a lot of similarities. Now I'm even keener to see my one flower. Thanks, Paul


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RE: Canistrum seidelianum

Hi Paul and All,

Paul, your plant is gorgeous that reflexs good cultivation. How long for this plant to flower? I grow C.seidelianum many year but not flower yet. I don't know why.

Pedro, A fabulous bigeneric plants. How big is it? If this plant is as big as A.disjuncta, It will be one in my wish list because it will be an eye-catching plant among other plants.

Lisa, Your hybrids still be stunning again. I have xCanmea Nani Ko'olau and now looking for your Haiku, 'Heather Tweed' and 'Bluetooth'. Don't you know that your plant won the first prize in The Baan Lae Suan Bromeliad show last month? Andreas from Nong Nooch Tropical Garden Brought plants for the show. He said 2 of them were from you. He didn't tell me the name. I thought they both were bigeneric xCanmea and looked similar to plants posted. Do you name it?

Kerry, Awesome. I like the natural look of your Black Sand. Thank for sharing.

Cheers
Yong


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RE: Canistrum seidelianum

Hi Yong

My plant is about the same size as the mother, disjuncta, however it has far more banding and more leaves. The inflorescence has a seideliana look though, but with branches. I've done a heap of F2 crosses from this lot and they have amazing banding at a small size. I simple haven't had time to deal with them due to the endless floods and other distractions. I tried crossing this type of plant with N carcharodon Tiger/Macho and so on but got no viable seed. I might have another go. I got an interesting cross with A manzanaresiana (small red and yellow form) x Can seidelianum which I might register, so always worth with this group I reckon.

Cheers, Pedro

PS You're probably too warm all year to get these Brazilians to bloom. In nature they get a distinct cold season. I know, I was there!

PSS Lisa, I reckon I'll get back to giving A correia-araujoi more attention! I have 3 distinct forms too, all ex Selby I think. How many are around in the States?


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RE: Canistrum seidelianum

Anders Lindstrom also got some of my culls, Yong. They have the same parents as xCanmea Nani Ko'olau, although some may be the reverse cross. Amazing that he won an award with one of them, I didn't know that! I have since gotten rid of all but the one named clone and have no plans to name any of the siblings. Due to a misunderstanding, however, some of the ones already in circulation have now been tagged with the same name too. I suppose it will become a grex name whether I like it to or not. They're all pretty similar, so it's not a big deal. It's my own fault for selling culls, but when faced with a choice between the trash pile and somebody with money in their hand, sometimes my resolve does slip a bit. ;-)

Interesting thought to try and cross your hybrid with a zonated Neo, Pedro. I can see what you were going for, but suspect it might not have worked out that way even if the cross had taken. Often what appear to be outwardly similar markings actually have quite different origins within the leaf tissues and end up cancelling each other out. You never know until you try it, though!

I've only seen one clone of Ae. correia-araujoi in these parts, I wasn't aware there were others in circulation. Since we're on the subject, I might as well show my other named hybrid from this group, Ae. Haiku, which is c-a x orlandiana. I think this is actually my favorite of the bunch.

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Note: all of these names are references to our mountain range here on O'ahu, with its dark steep slopes mottled with green vegetation. This is the view from my lanai after a rain. Their beauty is a constant source of inspiration!

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I also crossed Can. seidelianum with Ae. orlandiana and chantinii, but I didn't like the results as much, so I haven't propagated any of them. There may be a few in circulation, but I have no plans to name them.


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RE: Canistrum seidelianum

Now that's a view from the deck! Absolutely spectacular!

Love those mottled climbers. If a couple of clones of c-araujoi bloom I'll cross and send some seed. I find seedlings from c-a damp off unexpectedly too so most of my crosses died a couple of years ago. Last year I mainly worked on giants, like N silvo-montana. Did some cross pollinating this morning before the heat kicked in. More mottled plants coming! Zebrepton and Black Sands mainly. Tried Tiger again too.

Cheers, Pedro


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RE: Canistrum seidelianum

Hi Lisa, nothing like having a bit of volcano in the back yard for inspiration. What a view! No wonder it led you compose that haiku. What an appropriate name and what a stunning plant. That multiple countershaded patterning is just mind-blowing.

Hi Yong, thanks for your comments. Re your question about how long it took for that Can. seidelianum of mine to flower, I bought it as a small pup just under 2 years ago and now it is flowering at a height of around 45cm. It is growing in approx. 50% shade and the temperatures vary mostly in the range 20-30 degC, with cold nights in winter down to around 6 degC and hot days in summer up to around 40 degC. I hope that helps. Cheers, Paul


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RE: Canistrum seidelianum

Actually, Paul, Haiku is the name of a valley on Windward O'ahu, where there is a nightmarishly precipitous set of steps up to the ridge (pali) of the beautiful (nani) Ko'olau range. The stairs are closed to the public these days, but it's an awe-inspiring location (see link).

Of course it has the double meaning of a verse too, which I like.

Here is a link that might be useful: Haiku Stairs


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RE: Canistrum seidelianum

Hi Lisa, Sorry Anders for wrong spelling. Thank for your information. The scenery of your mountain looks fantastic. You would be happy while live in the very beautiful place. It's so jealous. I just find my thumbdrive and has pics of you xCanmea to post. Hawiian sounds strange but charming and difficult to pronouce. ;-) Thank for sharing.
Here is your xCanmea won the first prize and the others site.
xCanmea
x Canmea 1
This is another plant in the show.
x Canmea 2

Hi Pedro, Your hybrids are awesome. Others sounds interesting also. Don't forget to share the result. Yes, Thailant is located in Tropical area but It's too hot. I think broms need wide range of temp. during day and night and need cold weather to activate the flower. Now the weather around the globe is fluctuated. Some year the weather is not cold enough to stimulate plants. So my plants are not flower regularly.

Hi Paul, It's fabulous. 2 years from pup to flower. Unfortunately the temperature range here in Thailand is not stable. Thank for sharing.

Cheers
Yong


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RE: Canistrum seidelianum

Lisa- I want to live with you. Great view!
And your Ae. Pali Ridge is fantastic- the markings o the new leaves glow!
And your cross xCanmea that Udo showed is great- looks like a snake skin.
Keep up the good work!


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RE: Canistrum seidelianum

Hey, R&G, I remember you guys from the tropicals forum. Haven't seen you here lately, but it's a good (and very international) group. Welcome!

Hehe, when we were getting ready to build our house the contractors couldn't understand why anyone would want to build so far back from the road, and up on such a steep hill too. Once the land was cleared and they saw what the view was going to be, I think they got it.

Yes that snake-skin-looking one in Yong's second picture did come out very nice. Maybe I should have kept that one!

As for Hawaiian sounding funny, Yong, we think the same thing about Thai names. ;-)


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RE: Canistrum seidelianum

Hi Lisa-
Yeah, broms are becoming my new "thing". I go through phases. Heliconias, fragrant plants, bananas, fruit trees, now this. I love living where it is warm year round- almost everything grows!
My problem is too much rain- I assume with your view, you get a lot of rain also. For your private gardens, do you grow them in pots above the ground,or do you plant them in the ground? If you plant in the ground, what is your technique- in rocks, in pots or what?


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RE: Canistrum seidelianum

Gee, I don't want to hijack this thread too much! Besides, I'm primarily a nursery grower, so most of what I have is in pots. With your rainfall and tropical location, you might think about going epiphytic, particularly with the type of broms shown here. The ones with long snaky stolons are perfect for clinging to tree branches. If you want to start a separate thread on that, or on how to plant them in general, I'm sure you'll get plenty of response. People here are friendly and love to post pictures. ;-)


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RE: Canistrum seidelianum

Hi Lisa, hijack away! You've shown me a whole series of stunning plants that I didn't know existed and given me a whole lot of info to boot. The more the merrier, I say. By the way, that "haiku" link is a beauty. What a great place - makes me wish I could put on a pair of wings. Cheers, Paul


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RE: Canistrum seidelianum

Hi Lisa,

I echo Paul's comments. I've learnt more about growing brom's and especially hybridizing from you than in all the books I've ever read and I greatly appreciate you sharing your knowledge with us.

Those Haiku Stairs would be a great experience for someone young and fit, and I can just immagine the views, fantastic!

All the best, Nev.


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RE: Canistrum seidelianum

Good idea Lisa! I will start a new post.

More on this topic....
Where (which on-line nursery preferred) are you all getting these beauties? I have one Canistrum aurantiacum (and it is considered very unusual here), and I am falling in love with all these beauties you are all displaying.


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RE: Canistrum seidelianum

Ahh, as to "where", we should have a FAQ section at the top of the page. That would be question #1. (all together now).... Michael's Bromeliads.

There are other online sources, like Tropiflora, Bird Rock, various eBay sellers, etc., but I think almost everyone here would agree that Michael has the best selection and is the most pleasant to deal with. Unfortunately for the Down Under contingent, buying from him is difficult due to draconian import restrictions, but that shouldn't be any problem for you in PR. He's in Florida.

Of course in the interest of full disclosure I should tell you that I not only buy from him, I sell all of my hybrids through him. No bias or anything. ;-)


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RE: Canistrum seidelianum

Must admit i am impressed with the Canmea hybrids ,i could allmost go there to do some of that type of hybridising ,but where will i make room ? sell all the Vrieseas perhaps ? just love the shape and snake skin patterns ,great, Jack


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RE: Canistrum seidelianum

Hi Jack, plenty of potential!

The Quesnelia edmundoi types make for neat crosses too. I have only done a few (and so have the birds), but they have terrific rosette shapes with inflated sheaths, black spines and some are marbled, plus var Rubra. There are quite a few great species of Aechmea, Canistrum, Quesnelia, etc with marbled/blotchy leaves that haven't made it into cultivation here that I know of. I got a Can montanum in Europe but the gas killed it and I saw some great plants (and clones) in Brazil, but... need to get hold of seed!

Cheers, Pedro

PS Neat pink Vriesea!


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RE: Canistrum seidelianum

Hi Peter , yes i can see there is plenty of potential ,so i shall give it serious consideration ,despite being a Vriesae nut,i do like the looks of that style of plant along with the Ae,chantinii's ,and i do think we have hardly begun there to get the best out of them,hope you get the seed ,pity you lost the plant of Can, Montanum ,but thats the risk is'nt it ? How's your flood metigation works going at your place ? hard to believe the rain you 've had up there ,about level with the Amazon Hmmm ?
Cheers for now Jack


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