thanks rick thanks for the info now i know how to look after the ones i brought. one question though why do they call them grass pups.
Phil

Yep it works all right...sounds like advice from the wonderful Bruce Dunstan of Stockard Nursery?

Phil,

I think they are called grass pups because they look like some type of grass seedling.

Richard,

Yes - it was a Bruce Dunstan presentation, I was reluctant to credit him because my recollection of it would not have done him justice.

Rick

Hi Rick - Thanks for the very interesting information you're kind enough to pass on to us.

Not having had any experience taking grass pups off a mother plant, I would have thought they would need to be much bigger before separation because they look so tiny and spindly at that stage and as the name suggests, they just look like "grass".

Do the same techniques apply to other plants which throw grass pups such as vrieseas? I have grass pups on a Vr. Ospinae and I was going to wait until they were about 4-5 inches high before I removed them or should I be removing them now at their present stage (about 2" high)?

Nev,

The lady who sold me the Alcantareas said that the pups would be fine to take off when I did, they were probably around 25-30mm high. I have been misting them everyday for the last month or so and have not lost them yet.

Jaga suggested in another post to take them off around 50mm high, I think their survival rate depends a lot on your climate - it is nice and hot and humid here at the moment.

I have not had anything to do with Vriesea grass pups but I remember being told that they could be treated like Alcantarea grass pups once.

Rick

Good info there Rick...thanks. I've found that Alc's grown from grass pups tend to be quite prolific at producing their own grass pups, however, the production of grass pups typically slows down as the plants mature...so it's always good to keep a few going, espec Alc. imperialis Rubra as they do not produce 'normal' pups after flowering.

Nev, I have grown on a number of Vriesea grass pups...many Vriesea grown from seed produce grass pups that can be removed & treated just like Rick describes above. I tracked down an old post that relates to a group of Vr. hieroglyphica seedlings, & a few grass pups that I got off them. See the link.

Cheers, Andrew.

Here is a link that might be useful: Vriesea grass pups.

The grass pups grow to slow for me LOL...Even my neo moms that produce grass pups and the bloomed moms are heavily fed it still takes 4 years to get the plant big enough to do any thing with it...

Thanks Rick and Andrew. I was particularly interested to learn of the recommended mix for the grass pups. I knew about keeping them planted high in the mix - Bruce has had great results for propagation that way. He also only places the slow-release pellets near the base where the roots will grow, rather than right to the edges of the pot.

Rick - your Alc. edmundoi are more likely to be Alc. extensa. In Australia, many extensas have been incorrectly sold as Alc. edmundoi and nahoumii.

BTW. Brom-nutter = Richard... Bromaholic = Shane :)

K

Shane, sorry for calling you Richard.

Kerry,

Thanks for the update, if I can keep him alive until flowering I'll let you know if you are correct:)

Cheers,

Rick

Great info Rick. I removed my first grass pup 6 weeks ago. I planted into a brom orchid bagged mix and seems ok still. Ive got some A. Vinicolor im about to pot up so this is very handy to know. Thank you
Tim

Any update if they were edmundoi or extensa 6 years later hehe. Im new here and going through all this awesome info!
Tim

Hi Tim,

Sorry for my late reply, a few years or so since I've been here.

There was a lot of good info hidden here, it's good to see that you are trying to grow some grass pups.

I'm not sure what happened to those plants, I have a yard full of large Alcs now so some of them must have lived.

Alcantarea Landsendt Blue Grey is a nice clone to grow Tim, sadly being an imperialis type I don't think it's going to pup.

Very nice plants Rick! It's so easy to forget what you have. My fence came partially down in recent storms that hit the Northern Beaches which servely. I wondered out the front and came across an A. Vampira which has gone ballistic! Has some big grass pups turning into plants. I'll put some pics up for advice as I took one off 100mm big and survived for 6 months them died. The media I used was to course. It was like orchid mix. Been house renovating and working on my motorcycle so hadn't had much time. I'll post pics on weekend mate. I have a couple of Alcans I got of Peter Tristram. Speak soon.

Tim

Hi Tim,

You are doing well with your Alc Vampira, I got one off John and flowered it, it only produced one normal pup for me, I then cut it off about 10cm from ground level to coax three hair pups out of it.

I think the biggest trick with hair pups is to get some root growth, once the roots are established apply lots of liquid fertilizer. John Byth uses @50/50 mixture of chopped sphagnum moss and perlite to grow his hair pups with reasonable success.

I got back into biking a little over a year ago, another reason why my plants have had to look after themselves.

Cheers,

Rick

I'm drooling over your Suzuki, massive Cycad, flowering broms and to top it off, a massive garage to escape to and work on the bike rain hail or shine! You've done a lot of quality work on that bike bud, looks awesome!! What year and model? I got a cheapo now, Just for work and occasional ride up coast. New rear tyre so taking it easy this week. I'll get some pics up of Alcants soon. Just been painting front discs cause everything rusts on the beaches only downfall here. And the occasional snob lol

Hi Tim,

Mine is an 08 GSX1400, unfortunately they stopped making them, it's very similar to GSX I used to ride in my 20s. The CFMoto doesn't look too bad.

I'd like to see some Alc pics, I'll try and put some of mine up in a few days time.

Cheers,

Rick

Ok I've taken a couple shots but you have to remember I'm renovating, also had a massive storm that trashed the place and I'm surrounded by Swamp Mahgonys that drop stuff all year round so my plants aren't comp material by any means haha.

A. vampira and a Staffy. She wants to be involved in everything.

That's an 8in pot or 200mm these days...

A. vinicolor

Bloody website or phone is playing up. Uploaded 10 other pics and waited 30min and nothing happened. I'll post single pics now as that seemed to work.

A. rubra that I moved into more sun. Was in the shade for 2yrs.

A. Fairy Dust from Peter Tristram

A. odorata Silver Bak clone

A. extensa and A. rubra and A. Skotak Purple with grass pup.

A. Golden Eye from the lovely Jan Townsend which will get more sun once storm damage is fixed.

V. Kiwi sunset I found hidden and Random pic

Hi Tim,

Nice looking Staffy.

The pups on Vampira are interesting; I'm curious whether it is something that you are doing well or fertilizer left over from when John had it.

I haven't heard of Alc Golden Eye before; do you know anything about it?

Cheers,

Rick

Hey Rick, I got the A. vampira from a place at Terrey Hills called Palm Land about 2years ago. I must admit I was doubtful on the name but they have always been lovely honest people there. It had one pup when I brought it and it was already in an 8 in pot. It was half the size but I haven't fertilised or watered it. Anything here lives hard but seems to grow well. They are under many Eucalyptus robusta's and an Australian Cedar. A fair bit of dappled light. A lot of gum nuts end up in the leaves that eventually rot down of course as well as some leaves from a cheese tree. I don't water my Alcants or Staghorn and both are going bananas! I'll post a pic of a stag I had to more that was 25cm in diameter 2 yrs ago. The A. Golden Eye was registered by Jan Townsend. There's very limited pics atm as it's very new on the scene. I was lucky enough to buy one at the Sydney Bromeliad show last November at Burwood. They get a lovely gold in the centre and it's most pronounced in the cooler months. It's due for a repot so I'll take ur advice and pot it high and if I get some pups I'm always happy to pass 1 onto you. Any advice on removing that 7in Vampira pup??? Is it a bad time in Sydney being so cold? A friend said I should "wiggle" it each day for a month so it toughens up as though it will try and force out roots. Any ideas??

This was a 25cm Staghorn 1.5yrs ago. Unfertilised and no water. My fence was blown over so waiting for new fence. Only gets gumnuts and eucalyptus leaves that land in it.

Golden Eye is apparently is cross between A. discolor and A. extensa. It certainly explains the outside leaf margin. I copied this link. Hope it works. I'm pretty ordinary at technology. http://registry.bsi.org/?id=12548&whatsnew

Hi Tim,

Nice pics of Alc Golden Eye on BCR; I'll have to try and get one of those.

I'd like to see your flower spike on the "Vampira", I'm not sure that nurseries would have had

Alc Vampira for sale two years ago, John Byth only registered Vampira 8/2013, he was fairly selective with his initial releases of it. Alc Vampira is from a select batch of seedlings, Extract from BCR "Mature rosette to 1.4metres diameter x 70cms. high. Wine red, glossy leaves with tapering, pointed tips. Erect, branched spike to 2.4metres tall with cardinal red-bracted stem and recoiled cream petals reversed pink. Found in small numbers by the registrant in an advanced batch tagged as Alc. imperialis "purpurea" at Rocklea Markets, Brisbane in July, 2011, the exact source unknown. Reg. Doc. 8/2013 by John Byth." It is likely that Vampira is imperalis x vinicolor or vinicolor x imperialis, it is probable that your Alc could be a similar cross, I'm not sure about the same cross.

The best way to get large pups off is to strip away the lower leaves, a gentle wiggle and pry left to right will usually remove the pup, it is preferable to cut into the mother plant in preference to damaging the pup. I like to use a small flat bladed screw driver to pry off smaller pups.

Removed pups will often strike well if placed in Alcantarea leaf axis's.

Cheers,

Rick

Well that's interesting about Vampira. Mine looks nothing like it. Mine has been it a fair bit of shade though. I was trying to think back exactly when I got it and it would have to be no less than 18 months. Will I be able to get a 100% answer from the flowers? With the pups in the leaf axis, do u just sit them in and walk away? Thanks for all this info. It really is greatly appreciated. Let me know if you want Jan's email to help organise you a Golden Eye.

Thanks

Tim

One other question, does pot size matter for Alcants. I've heard keeping Neo's in smaller pots stresses them some they pup more. Would same work for Alcants? Would putting them in larger pots before they are ready get faster and bigger growth also?

Thanks

Tim

Hi everyone.

I don't have much in the way to share about Alcantareas as I only have a few which I grew from small hair pups.

Interestingly one is supposedly Alc. 'Silver Plum' which I've since been told doesn't produce pups so it may be incorrectly named (See Pic.) and tell me what you think it is.

Another is extensa which seems to be correctly named and a third which was a slow starter but is now starting to grow and is supposed to be Alc. Imperialis rubra; I'm also attaching a picture of this for your comments as to whether or not it's correctly named.

Finally, seeing you are showing pictures of your bikes, I'm attaching one of a bike belonging to my son which was taking up space in my garage for quite a while. It's an old Ducati he bought some years ago in pretty poor condition but has gradually restored it to what you see in the pic, it looks OK I guess, but there's no way I'd ever ride the thing as my preference has always been for four wheels beneath me.

Alc. 'Silver Plum' ?????????

Alc. extensa

Alc Imperialis Rubra ??????????

The 'Duke'

All the best, Nev.

Very nice Nev. Both plants and bike! First one is Silver Plum. I've always been told they don't get pups either. Until...I acquired 2 from The Olive Branch that had a couple of grass pups...first time I'd seen it before on silver plum. Your second is Extensa. Coming along nicely. Third could be Rubra or even another silver plum?? What do the underside of leaves look like? And well, The Duke.... Very nice. His spent some time on that. He must be pleased with himself:)

Hi Nev,

The names on your Alcs look pretty close to me.

Your son's Ducati Desmo is very sought after, it looks like he a done a very profeesional job with the restoration.

Tim,

Alc Silver Plum is a purple imperialis clone selected by Robert and Mellisa Dillings, because imperialis generally don't pup after flowering, most of the Silver Plums are seed grown from Silver Plum seed. Silver Plum like some other imperialis types will produce hair pups when young (parent size no more than @30cm). A few years back when Alcs were going through a popularity boom, you could buy large Silver Plums but growing typically held back the smaller plants to stop others cultivating the hair pups.

I have Jan's contact details but Thanks for the offer.

I usually start Alcs off in small pots 50-75mm for hair pups, 100-150 mm for normal pups, typically applying a generous amount of slow release fertilizer, potting up to 200mm next growing season with more fertilizer, potting up to 300mm with more fertilizer then I usually pot up to 400 or 500mm or place in the ground and lay off the fertilizer to let the colour come through unless I want to force flowering then keep fertilizing. They can be grown in very small pots, this will usually increase their colour and decrease their size, you want to avoid over potting as water and nutrients are wasted because they don't contact the roots.

Cheers,

Rick

Hi all,

Hey Rick would you recommend to perlite/coir mix or the chopped sphagnum/perlite for grass pups? My so called Vampira is sending up it's flower soon and I might get these 250mm pups off. Is it a mistake to take them off this time of year in Sydney. It's pretty cold so won't be much root activity?? I'd hate if they died because it's to cold. Thank you for your helpful posts ;)

I also just got an Alc extensa x vinicolor a few hours ago too. That was what's on the label and it appears A. Aladdin has the same parentage. Thank you for clearing up the Silver Plum pups issue too. Wealth of information!

Hi Tim,

I would try and leave the pups on until Spring.

I would use chopped sphagnum and perlite for small hair pups, misting once or twice a day once it warms up and apply liquid fertilizer once they are struck.

If you can gently pry away your 25cm with some roots, I would pot it up like a normal pup or drop it in a leaf axis of an Alc to strike.

Lots of Alc extensa x vinicolor were grown and distributed by Allan Ladd, there is some variance amongst them, they are a nice little Alc.

Rick

Thanks Rick,

i only just saw this post. Phone been playing up again. Unfortunately I removed 3 pups an hour ago 2 hair pups and a big pup. I just got a new budding knife ( first one since my days of Tafe 20yrs ago) It has a flat blade and a curved blade. Bloody brilliant! The first grass pup came off a little short so I got my knife to do the other 2. Worked a treat! The big one has some small roots on it which I'm very happy about. Its gonna flower soon so I'll leave the other big 2 on until spring. I'll post an update as the flower comes up. I just put it in a big urn with some Primulas around it. Thanks a million for walking me through this. Any ideas on what it could be if not Vampira? Kinda looks like it has some Extensa in it judging by the purple edges. I love it either way but I'd be happy to hear anyone's advice on what it could be. Has been grown in quite abit of shade since I've had it.

Take care

Tim

Hi Tim,

Your Vampira might be another Alc extensa x vinicolor, the flower spike should shed some light.

It looks like you have stripped off the lower leaves on your unknown Alc, the other big mistake I've made before is trying to take pups off without splitting or stripping the outer leaves, more often than not you end up breaking the pup off too high.

Your budding knife sounds like a good idea.

Cheers,

Rick

She's a coming!

pic of her pup in leaf axis. Thanks for the tip Rick!

Nice one Tim.

Are these pups on my silver plum