Well.........

Let's start off by saying that the whole of the genus Brugmansia are by no means "wild" plants. They have been cultivated for thousands of years by indigenous peoples. Any population that could be considered "wild" is most likely from seed that traveled to a remote location, presumabley from wind, water, or animal, from a cultivated form. And if two or more made it they could settle out into a distinct form.

B. vulcanicola is very sensitive to soil conditions, as well as humidity conditions. Perhaps this is the reason that it is less cultivated by the native peoples (and ourselves). Also perhaps because the natives seem to choose their plants more for leaf shape than for flowers. Maybe because the leaf shape is so slight in difference to sanguinea and the trouble with cultivation, they saw no reason to cultivate such a finnicky plant.

Both are used as hallucinogens and to ease rhumatic and arthritic pain, as well as admixtures to various brews of other hallucinogens.

B. vulcanicola comes in a variety of colors. The most dominant being red toward the calyx fading to yellow at the mouth. There are also single colored forms in red, in pink, and in yellow.

In the "wild" and near human habitation, hybrids do occur. They are marked by the flare in the middle of the corolla, typical of vulcanicola, with the color being that of sanguinea, but normally slightly lighter in color with a little more pink, or yellow in them. Also the fruit shape is more on the vulcanicola side generally.

Yellow sanguinea is quite prominent in the "wild". Much more so than here in cultivation. Sometimes it is hard to tell the difference between a yellow vulcanicola and a yellow vulcanicola hybrid, but to the trained eye, the hybrid will have the typical puffed up calyx of sanguinea, and the flowers hang more downward as in sanguinea.

Typically in vulcanicola the flowers point outward horizontally.

If you go to the other thread and find Tom's post with links to the ABADS gallery, you can clearly see the difference between the wild species and the hybrids.

Typical of vulcanicola is the corolla tube flared in the middle, the mouth of the corolla only slightly rolled back as compared to sanguinea, and the elongated oval warty fruit.
Having seen pictures of a "wild" vulcanicola x sanguinea hybrid, due to fruit shape, and seeing the fruit of the Strybing hybrid, I would almost say the Strybing hybrid is only 25% vulcanicola, which means it was crossed to a sanguinea twice. But it indeed could be 50%.
This is definitely an error in record keeping on their part.

Don't worry..... We are bound to have some real vulcanicola here in the US soon. I have 2 Zunac seedlings, which should prove to be true vulc, because all of the plants in the direct vicinity, which is located away from habitation seem to be homogenous. Also, I have seeds from vulcanicola's and a lone vulc. x sang. hybrid that occured in the same area of northern Ecuador along the border of Colombia.

For now it seems the common and proper thing to do is refer to your plant as the Strybing Vulsa.

Vulsa = vulca x sang hybrid, or vice versa.

Hi Matt,

In the other thread Tom did indicate that at the type location B. vulcanicola appeared to have been cultivated (or at least planted). Why are there multiple color forms of a rare plant if it's not cultivated?

The Strybing plant, at least, is not finicky here--mine survived all of our heatwaves last summer just fine. It did get some frost damage. It's planted in heavy clay not that far from a region where water pools in the winter. It's thriving.

Tom also indicated that the thinking is that the Strybing plant was crossed with Strybing's B. sanguineas. Did they/do they grow a yellow or orange variety?

Mark, re your question on exogenous pollen, I do believe this may happen in some Solanacea, but I don't know for sure. Sanguinea, for instance, has been shown in couple instances to get a viable pod appearently without a pollen donor, even though is generally thought to be self-sterile.
Another additional proof however that the Strybing plant is a Vulsa, and not a vulcanicola, is that original pics of the real 621 do exist at Harvard University (copyrighted so they can't be shared here), and they are clearly not the same plant that Strybing has today.

The idea of a limited distribution of B. vulcanicola is actually diminishing a little as more & more sites are found. In addition to the 2 known sites in Colombia, there are recently at least 4 more in Ecuador that I know of, widely spaced apart, including one on a recently cut road though a remote area of the high Andes, far from known native populations.
- Tom

I didn't say not cultivated. I said less cultivated. I am not exactly familiar with the way color is passed on through genes. I guess I should educate myself some more. : ) That's if I can get off my lazy arse! LOL! Maybe they change color to attract different pollinators? I definitely know temps. can effect color.

Anyway, when I worked for Kartuz in 1999, he was selling a "vulcanicola" he received from Strybing. If I remember correctly, the one flower I saw seemed to be a darker shade of pink than the current Strybing clone and the flower was near horizontal. That's if I remember correctly of course. But I could be wrong. Because the 2 plants they have at Strybing now are pretty large and I imagine would have to be over 10 years old. So it could have been the same clone(at Kartuz that is). But maybe the original Strybing plant is still in cultivation somewhere in some unknown back yard garden, and could have just as likely been alive at Kartuz at that time.

There are a few different sanguinea's in the area where the original vulcanicola had been. There is 'Inca Princess', 'Inca Queen', 'Pasachoa', and one that just says sanguinea that I know of. There is also the large arborea right there as well.

Sorry if I seem short or curt. I am not on a regular computer, so I can only type so much at one time. That's why there are so many posts.

Hi Matt,

Thanks for answering all my naive questions.

I didn't realize you were at Kartuz back then. I visited several times around that point, when I lived in Pasadena. I used to make a trip to Kartuz, Rainbow Gardens (when they were open) and Grigsby. I think I spoke just with Michael when I visited, but I'm not sure. I picked up my first Brugmansia there--B. 'Dr. Seuss'. I'm curious of the origins of that name--do you know who named it? I read just yesterday that it was renamed that from a plant found in the wild by Hetty Krauss.

Hi Matt,

Thanks for answering all my naive questions.

I didn't realize you were at Kartuz back then. I visited several times around that point, when I lived in Pasadena. I used to make a trip to Kartuz, Rainbow Gardens (when they were open) and Grigsby. I think I spoke just with Michael when I visited, but I'm not sure. I picked up my first Brugmansia there--B. 'Dr. Seuss'. I'm curious of the origins of that name--do you know who named it? I read just yesterday that it was renamed that from a plant found in the wild by Hetty Krauss.

One of my favorite Kartuz plants is Aristolochia gigantea, which gets under my conditions up here flowers up to 9 inches. They smell just like Lemon Pledge.

{{gwi:50983}}

I didn't find any of your questions naive.
I enjoy sharing what I have learned, and I enjoy learning from others.
Sometimes questioning things is a very good thing.

Any way..... Sorry. I can't help with the Dr. Seuss naming conundrum. But I read exactly what you read about it. Maybe you can look up 'Hetty Kraus' or something in google and find out more. Perhaps try a search for 'Datura Dr. Seuss' or something like that.

Good Luck!