The big dark cat continued to eat and eat last night, and when I checked on them right before going to bed at midnight, it had eaten almost all his/her leaf. So I went outside, flashlight in hand, got him/her a fresh leaf, and cleaned the frass filled container before putting the cat and his/her new leaf back in. It's now on the side of the container with some liquidy looking frass coming out - 'looks like it'll be pupating soon.
The little dark one finally went through its molt, successfully, and now it's resumed eating, and the pale one is still eating.
Sherry

I looked at the cat carefully through the clear container, and I now think that the "liquidy looking" frass is just 3 or 4 stacked pieces - the cat may just be molting. If it's molting, it should be going into the last instar.
Am I obsessing over these zebra swallowtails/Eurytides marcellus (for Larry) or what? :)
Sherry

You are just being a conscientious lep raiser. If I were (I only wish) in your place, I'd be doing the same thing. It's important to you to see these guys make it to butterflies. : )

sandy

Let me know how big they are when they pupate. Looks like mine so far is going to be a decent size. I'll try and post pics of it soon.

Okay, catman, I'll keep track of their size.
I was right the first time I posted today - about an hour or so ago, the big dark one did a BIG bowel emptying, and now its wandering around the container. So I think it'll soon be pupating after all. I'd say it was about 1 1/2" long and fat before the purging, and now I'd say it's about 1 1/4" - 1 1/2" long, less fat, not 2" long for sure.
I would doubt that zebra swallowtail cats would ever get 2" long. I think the Audubon Field Guide has it wrong - they list the size of zebra, black, palamedes and tiger swallowtail cats all as being 2" long - palamedes and tigers get this big, but black swallowtails don't, and I wouldn't think zebras would either, since their wing span is listed as only being 2 3/8" - 3 1/2" which is the same size as a black swallowtail. Palamedes and tiger swallowtails have 5" wingspans, they're bigger butterflies. The maximum caterpillar size isn't always exactly related to the wingspan of the adult - pipevine swallowtails make big caterpillars relative to the size of the adults - but it usually is.
Sherry

The cat that emptied its bowels has assumed the position on the top of the container. The pale one has turned a pretty shade of blue/green, and the little dark one ate a lot, grew some, and now it's being still like it's molting again.
Sherry

That's really exciting. Thanks for the post and pictures!

Jeff

You're welcome, Jeff!
The green one - recently pale/whitish - ate two big leaves yesterday. I cleaned its container this morning and gave it another fresh leaf. While I was at it, I thought I'd take its picture, because I may not get another chance - it may soon pupate.
{{gwi:461800}}
Sherry

The zebra cats are in my bathrooom, and when I got through taking my bath, I noticed that the pupating cat was transforming into a chrysalis - it took about 36 hours, about 12 hours longer than most. It's light brown/tan colored, but I can see green in it, too. It is indeed small for a swallowtail chrysalis!
In a few days after it's hardened, I'll take a picture. I don't want to do it now - I might disturb it.
Sherry

Congrats on the pupa - mine pupated a couple days ago too, and I've got a couple more (smaller) cats that will eventually catch up.

Mine pupated green (I think the color is determined by their surroundings; this one was surrounded by its hostplant leaves when it went into pre-pupa so I think that's why it turned green)

Last year I got a video of a zebra cat molting into the pupa stage - I should dig that one out sometime.

Yea! Whew, now you can rest. At least for a little while. Make sure to give them something to crawl up to spread their wings. I think these guys really need to spread their wings. You won't believe how big a butterfly comes from those little chrysalises. I have lost several because they were not able to climb properly for a variety of reasons. They have such long tails.

Catman, I am not sure about color. You are probably right. Most of the studies seem to indicate it is related to time spent around the host plant. It seemed like to me that most of the ones that overwintered were brown and most of the ones that eclosed (even at the end of the season) were green. However, I had at least one green one overwinter. Isn't it a lovely shade of green?

They will turn dark before eclosing. Not as dark as Monarchs, but you should be able to tell.

Cheers,
Elisabeth

The green one emptied its bowels a few hours ago, so another one should be pupating soon.
I was planning on putting them (on their lids or the side of the container if one should pupate there) in my big cage on the porch where they have tons of room to climb and exercise their wings before release. I've already put chrysalids from other cages that didn't pupate on their cage - like on the water pick or under the paper towel - into this big one. Can you see any reason why this would be ill advised, Elisabeth? Should I bring a cage in the house and let them emerge here?
Sherry

Elisabeth - Last year, I had about 4 brown and 1 green chrysalids, and one of the brown ones emerged shortly while the rest overwintered. I don't know if the color is much related to whether or not they overwinter, but I'd guess that more of the brown ones would overwinter in general.

When one of my giant swallowtail cats pupated on the top of its cage, its "sling" didn't hold, and it was hanging down from the silk pad. I scratched the silk pad loose and put it in one of my foam rubber "cradles" - I took it out of its "cradle" and put it next to the zebra swallowtail chrysalis for comparison -
{{gwi:461801}}
Sherry

Yes, E. marcellus is definitely one of the smaller swallowtails. Especially noticeable next to a giant swallowtail.

Cool photo - I successfully reared one Giant last year; hopefully I can do better this year. The nearest foodplant that I know of (where I found the cats) is a 3.5 mile bike ride away from home, so refreshing the food isn't as easy as with the Zebras.

Whew! That's a long way to travel to get leaves! Was it prickly ash? Hops tree? I like having plenty of host plant material right here at home, but then with 5 1/2 acres, I can have it here, except if the deer like it too well, that is.
I've got a big Louisiana Sweet orange tree, five rue bushes, and quite a few hops trees/bushes, so I get a lot of giant swallowtails. I had rooted a little blueberry bush to replace one lost in the hurricane, and a squirrel or armadillo dug the little thing up! So I think I'm going to plant a satsuma in that spot, which would give me good fruit, and the giant swallowtails yet another tree for egg laying.
The green cat has been in the pupating position for a while now, and the other black one has gotten much bigger, eating a lot of leaves - it should be doing the same thing soon.
Sherry

After a bit of research, I identified the hostplant as common hoptree. I'm sure there are other hoptrees or Rutaceae species that are closer to our house - I just haven't found any yet.

Those ZST cat photos are amazing Sherry (^_^)

OK, I finally uploaded photos of the specimen I've been talking about.

{{gwi:461802}}

{{gwi:461804}}

I have about 10 other specimens that range from 5th instar down to 1st and 2nd instar. I plan to rear these all and release them as adults. I don't remember seeing this many specimens last year!

Great pictures. Looks lika a healthy larva and pupa. Thanks for sharing.

wow Catman, good job!

Thank you.

It was about 3mm long when I found it, so I didn't quite rear it from an egg. Right now, though, I've got one that's in its last instar that I did rear from an egg. That reminds me, it desperately needs more leaves. Got to go get some...

I'm glad I checked this website. I've been having a terrible time keeping paper wasps from eating up all my newly hatched zst cats. I may have to net the pawpaws. By the way, I found NO eggs this year on the tropical soursop tree. They usually head right for it and then lay on the pawpaws- not this year-yet. Paul. Riverview, Fl.

What plants are they using this year, Paul? Native Florida pawpaws?
I had two cats left, the big green one and the smaller black one. The big green one tried to pupate on the wet paper towel on the bottom of its container, but didn't succeed. It eventually turned to mushiness. It never did look like it got a good hold of the wet paper, so I put dry paper in the container with the little black one. That one pupated last night. The green one may not have succeeded any way, since it seemed to just sort of flop over on the paper towel, I don't know.
Anyway, I've now got two chrysalids. The second looks to be turning green like the first one.
What a shame I couldn't have gotten more out of all those eggs! :(
Sherry

Great information and pictures here! I've only raised BST's, Monarchs, and Gulf Fritillaries from eggs to adults. A few days ago I saw a ZST fly by (I'm pretty sure) but I don't know where any Paw Paw's are around here so I ordered some seeds just yesterday. I had no idea ZST were so different from the other three I've raised! I will have to see if I can find some Paw Paw's in the woods until mine grow. Thanks Misssherry - I'm looking forward to the developing story and pictures!

You're welcome Kellybird02!
When the butterflies emerge, I'll post their pictures - I sure hope everything goes well with their eclosures!
Sherry

Hi Sherry;
Sorry to not respond right away. I was whooping it up in NYC. Not a butterfly in sight unless I went to the American Natural History Museum. I did that at Christmas and met the head of exhibits there. She is really nice and gave me a tour. But you know me, I digress.

I can't quite picture your set up. If the tupperware tops are flat it may be a problem. I have had problems with them pupating on the tupperware tops if they are flat, as they are slick and if I am not there to watch them they cannot get to something to crawl up and stretch. I have had success if they pupate on the tops, with the pupa hanging down,on a wire rack shelf. then they can hang of the case or the wire. Alternatively, you could release the pupa and low temp hot glue it to a stick or something. We have done this with a bunch at the arb. We made a nice cage with 3 inch by 10 inch wood boards to glue them to. The boards slide in and out. They can grasp these boards as well as the cases. The sides of the cages are mesh the can hang from as well. We designed this after seeing a couple simillar things at other exhibits. The only thing is to make sure which side to glue down. I think you can figure that out.

On another note, I spotted a zebra in my yard. By the time I got a net out to catch her she disappeared. I checked out my paw paws and there were no eggs. We went out for a couple hours and when we came back there were eggs. Now, you would think this is a cause for celebration but my paw paws are 12 inches high with about 5 leaves each. I had to practically denude each of them to take the eggs. So, I have eggs now. I would have prefered to have momma so I could take her to the arb to lay her eggs. Oh well....

-Elisabeth

Oh my goodness! Can you take the eggs to the arb where the food is? I sure hope so!
My daughter has been to NYC many times, but then her work takes here everywhere - I've never been there myself. I can't imagine the hugeness of it, being a small town/country girl! I have a friend whose sister lives in Connecticut, so she visits the Big Apple fairly often, and she said the first time she went there she got so over stimulated she burst out in tears!
Sherry

Yes, I will get some leaves from the arb and when the cats get a little larger I will bring them there.

I grew up in NYC and I still get dizzy at times there. You should go with your daughter there. They have some wonderful plays and musicals on broadway this year. During the winter the American Museum of Natural History has a butterfly house. It is tiny but has some of the birdwings. Very pretty.

Cheers,
Elisabeth

OK, I am a little late in updating, but here's the same specimen I previously posted about:

{{gwi:461805}}
May 17, late evening

{{gwi:461806}}
May 18, basking before its first time flying in the wild.

This specimen spent only 10 days in the pupal stage! That's about as fast as it gets...

Ten days? Wow! That is as fast as it gets, for swallowtails, anyway!
What a gorgeous butterfly! I can see that he/she is darker than the early spring adults, and it has the longer tails, all as advertised.
Maybe this means mine will be emerging soon. I've looked at the picture in my Florida Butterflying book of male and females, but I can't see any difference. 'Anybody know any simple way to sex them? One of my chrysalids is fatter in the abdominal area, so maybe she's a female and the other one is a male?
Sherry

I have never tried to sex them. My friend says he thinks the females are a little bigger. However, he sees a lot at one time with a paw paw farm and all. I am going to work with the info Larry talked about and try to work on recognizing claspers in the future. Wish me luck! Nice pictures catman. Maybe someday I will be able to post photos. Hah!
-Elisabeth

Thanks...I might post more photos of the other specimens.

I'm rearing a total of 11 specimens (including the one that has emerged) and so far, only one of them dies. If I successfully release 10 out of 11 specimens, I'm guessing that would do some good to boost the ZST population, assuming that the survival rate in the wild would not be as high. Does anyone have thoughts on this? Is it likely that 10 out of 11 would survive in the wild?

Ten out of eleven is great!
The survival rate in the wild is very low, something like 5%? I can't remember the exact figure here, but your percentage is MUCH higher! That's why I raise some in cages - except for zebra swallowtails, my percentage rate is huge, too.
Sherry

Hopefully I'll see a jump in ZST population over the next year...and hopefully they won't decimate the pawpaw patch... ;)

In the case of my first batch of monarch cats, as you've seen, the survival rate in the wild turned out to be 0%. Better luck next time with that...

In my experience with Black Swallowtails (Papilio polexenes), you can sex them by looking at the shape of their abdomen tip. I would guess that this carries over to most Swallowtails. A male's abdomen is pointy on the tip, while the female's is more squarish, kind of like two stair steps. Also, the female's abdomen will be 30% or so larger.

{{gwi:461807}}

-Jmcat

I made a picture of my chrysalids. I can't see much difference in their abdomen tip, but it does look like the one on the bottom is a little more pointed. Also, the one on the top looks to have a fatter abdomen to me - 'ya'll agree?
{{gwi:461808}}
Sherry

Yeah, I agree with those observations. The one at the bottom looks bigger, but I assume that this is just because it is closer. I wouldn't count on being able to positively sex them until they eclose. I have only noticed the observations I posted earlier on the adults, and not the pupae. However, I know the feeling of having a new species, and so can understand trying to figure out everything about them.
-Jmcat

Well, my zebra swallowtails are still chrsyalids, no butterflies yet. They look perfectly healthy.
Maybe if I post this, they'll make a liar out of me! :)
Sherry

Last week one of the ZST chrsyalides emerged!! Finally!
I'm just now posting the pictures, because my computer was being fixed, and my husband's computer doesn't have my camera software.
Anyway, here's a picture of the butterfly and the empty chrysalis -
{{gwi:461809}}
{{gwi:461810}}
I also released another ZST that very same day that came from a batch of ZST chrysalides I ordered from Bill Oehlke. I'd love to get another chance to raise ZSTs and, hopefully, be a lot more successful than I was last year. My pawpaws are just now leafing out though, so there's no hurry! :)
Sherry

WOW.
Never see those around here. :

I wondered what your source was for the ZSTs. I need to order some so I can raise a few. I have the Pawpaw tree to feed them, and they do show up here occasionally, but they haven't found my backyard. Thanks for sharing the info.

sandy

Nice pictures, Sherry! He/she is absolutely beautiful. Zebras are my favorite butterfly. I've always loved red and black together. The red on the butterfly really sets it off. I also love the extra long tails on that kind of butterfly. Ever since I've seen pictures of it online and in my butterfly guides, I've wanted to get the Zebra Swallowtail here.

As I said in another thread, several years ago I had ordered two paw paw trees online. I don't think they ever were alive from the time I got them. I had the same thing happen again with more that I ordered, so I gave up on buying them from people. I think small ones in pots would be okay, but I'm leery about the bareroot ones. I had also tried to start them from seed a few years ago, but I hadn't done my homework and didn't know that they needed shade the first couple of years. They came up and were a few inches high but then died. After I found out that they should have been in shade, I knew that's what killed them.

A friend saw that someone had seeds for sale online last year and so I decided to give it another shot and planted some that I can plant out in the backyard. They're about half a foot tall, and they're getting planted next month. I've never seen a Zebra Swallowtail here or anywhere else as far as I know (unless I saw one before I got into butterflies and just didn't know what it was at the time). None have been reported for my county. I was told that they hang out around the river several counties away. If only I could make a trail of paw paw trees from there to here! I sure hope that I'll be able to attract them here sometime. We live fairly close to a creek, so I'm hoping that will help. Do you have a body of water right near where you are? I think you mentioned that you only have one or two paw paw trees, didn't you?

You said you're going to try to raise them again. Do you have any type of strategy? I didn't know if you'd try a different method. I'm still baffled over why I have so many GSTs die when I feed them rue. The eggs get laid on those plants, so it's not like I switched them from one kind of host plant to another. I want to try raising them on wafer ash some year. Right now my couple of trees are in flower pots and are only a few inches high, so I think it will be quite some time before I can feed them wafer ash leaves. I even thought about moving them to a more open location instead of keeping them in small storage containers. If I had potted plants of rue, I could sit them in my butterfly cage and see if that makes a difference. Rue has a pungent odor, and so I was thinking maybe they can't stand that in a pretty tight space. I figure it's worth a try to raise them in a more open space. So I didn't know if you were going to try something different with your Zebras. I certainly hope that they do well this year for you.
Cathy

Cathy, you said,
"I even thought about moving them to a more open location instead of keeping them in small storage containers."
Were you referring to your giant swallowtail cats? I raise mine in large, mesh cages with plenty of air flow - I can't imagine trying to raise them in storage containers. If you are, that may be why they're dying. I've raised many GSTs on rue, and they've all done fine, so it's definitely not the host plant.

I'd like to try raising ZSTs again. If I get the chance, I'll first try raising them in the usual open cage, then if that doesn't work, I'll go back to the sealed containers, although I still can't see how that works - it seems very abnormal.

I live pretty close to some big creeks, and real close to a stream or small creek. I have 6 pawpaws, but two of them are real small, having just been planted last year. I saw one of the few ZSTs I've ever seen nectaring on some flowers on a creek bank near here.

Sherry

Sherry, Yes, I meant the Giant Swallowtail cats. When I started raising Monarchs, I put each cat in a cut-off Juicy Juice plastic bottle, but as I got more and more Monarchs to raise, that got to be too much dealing with all of those individual containers, so I started raising them in "shoebox" plastic storage containers. I cut a big hole in the lid and replaced it with fiberglass screen. The Monarchs did fine in the containers, and I never had many die at all.

So when I found GST eggs here, I put them in that type of container with some rue and they'd always be crawling off of the cuttings. I don't know why Monarchs would do well in the containers and not the GSTs other than maybe the smell of the rue gets too strong in there. I think I just may try raising them on rue again, but I'll put them in my big butterfly cage that I made for the Monarchs.

I agree with you, it seems abnormal that the ZSTs would do well in the sealed containers and not the open cage. I hope you get a bunch of ZST eggs/cats to work with and find out a good way to raise them.

I guess you're lucky to have those creeks near you then if they help to attract the ZSTs, which I think that they do (not that I'm any expert, of course...just a hunch). Shucks, I don't know why I was thinking that you only had 1 or 2 paw paws. That's great that you have 6. I would like to have 6 or so here in our backyard. I figure the more the better to attract the Zebras. That's nice that you saw one nectaring at the creek. I think they like to hang out near water. I'm not sure exactly why unless it's for the puddling.

Cathy

Cathy, I think the reason you find them near creeks is because pawpaws grow near creeks. In this area, we only have the small types naturally, A. parviflora, and they grow on the bluffs in the same areas where mountain laurel and Florida anise/Illicium floridanum grow, not down close to the water. I think the only reason they can support ZST cats is that, first, ZSTs eat relatively little compared to other cats, also, A. parviflora makes colonies with a lot of short, leggy bushes in one immediate area.
The other ZST has emerged this morning - it's a year old, wow!
I'll take its picture later, but I'll probably post it on my other thread - if the shape of the chrysalids means anything, this is the one that should be a female.
Sherry

Sherry, That makes sense about the paw paws growing near creeks. Now why didn't I think of that! Actually, I can honestly say that I don't think I've ever seen a paw paw tree ever except for the ones that I ordered from two people (they didn't live) and the ones that I'm growing from seed and planning to plant here.

That's very interesting about your species of paw paw growing higher up than our A. triloba up here (if there actually are any up here anywhere). I imagine that there would be some trees somewhere in the county. There's actually an island in the river between our county and the next one that is/was called Paw Paw Island. Being that it's accessible only by boat, that thankfully probably saved whatever paw paw trees are on that island from destruction by man. I would just love to find it someday, but we don't have a boat. Many years ago (like early 1900's) it was apparently a big thing for people to picnic on the island. I bet they got to see some Zebra Swallowtails, only at the time I guess they wouldn't have known that and just enjoyed them for being just a butterfly. Can you tell I love to read and reminisce and wonder what it would have been like to live back in those days? :)

Did you throw a birthday party for that 1-yr old ZST? :) Gosh, it doesn't seem like it's been a whole year already, but yep!

Cathy

My pawpaws are getting bigger (currently dormant). Hope I find something on them this year. It's been 4 or 5 years since I've seen a ZST in my yard but two other neighbors claim to have seen some on my street so my fingers are crossed.

Eleven beautiful photos.