Yikes Double Deckers Now What?

10 years ago

I got some eggs and cats from an acquaintance nearby a few weeks ago. I have some PVs but had not yet gotten any PVST cats, so I picked some up from her. While I was there, she had oodles of BSTs and GFs so I took some of those as well. The GFs have already come and gone and all those BSTs are pupated.

Naturally, as soon as I brought those BSTs home, as I was cutting food for them, I started finding BST cats of my own on the host plants so brought some of those in as well and put them in the same tent. I have some of the big mesh insect cages so there is plenty of room.

Anyway, all of the first batch has pupated and this morning when I checked them, two of the younger batch are in their "J's" but they chose to attach to existing pupae on the roof of the container. Ack. Never had that happen before.

So now two concerns.

1. The first guy ecloses, the second guy will probably fall down (not the end of the world I know)

2. More concerning......will the silk from the second guy interfere with the eclosure of the first one? After they pupate should I try to separate them or do you think it's more risky in that I might damage the older one getting the newer one off?

Interfere or let mother nature take her course?

Thanks!

PS I have one PVST pupa and two "J's" so hopefully can soon release some PVST's.

I hope all these ST's don't decide to overwinter. I hate it when they do that. I always worry they will decide to eclose sometime in the spring, when I am gone or forget to check them or something like that. How does everyone else handle that?

Comments (9)

wifey2mikey
10 years ago
My understanding is that the bottom guy will not be able to eclose because the silk pad that the top one put down to hold his chrysalis will basically encase the bottom guy and he will not be able get through it. The top guy should be fine.

I know somewhere on here in an older message there were some instructions on how to separate the two. Maybe someone else will be able to find the link to that for you (I tried and can't find it) and/or share with you how to successfully separate them. For whatever reason it seems to be a fairly common occurrence.

~Laura
butterflymomok
10 years ago
I've had double deckers eclose with no problem. And the chrysalis of the second pupa stayed in place. The butterflies seemed to just slip out at the bottom. I've even had triples before. Swallowtails love to be close!

Sandy

This post was edited by butterflymomok on Thu, Aug 1, 13 at 10:11
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MissSherry
10 years ago
I've had red-spotted purples pupate on swallowtails, and, as I recall, all went well, with the RSP emerging before the swallowtail, even though the swallowtail had pupated first. That's normal, though, RSPs don't take long. But I can't ever remember a swallowtail on swallowtail situation.

From what Sandy and Laura say, it sounds like there's no problem there, either. Keep us posted!

Sherry
bandjzmom
10 years ago
Interesting for sure. I have never had that happen before, but now I know that it can happen. Thanks! As for the overwintering thing, I just place mine into containers inside my garage and I place the containers in a spot where I have to pass by and see them often. That helps me to remember. :o)
lucas_tx_gw
Original Author
10 years ago
On the overwintering, I do the same thing. I just worry about what if we leave for the weekend or something? When you are feeding cats, you always have to think ahead for that but when you have some 6 month old little lumps just hanging out it's harder to keep them at the top of the memory banks, or at least for me it is!
wifey2mikey
10 years ago
Sandy, it's good to know that it can be successful... I don't know why exactly but mine never seem to work out well. I have had the top one eclose multiple times with the bottom one never making it. ?
butterflymomok
10 years ago
Laura,

Interesting. Did you save it to see if it was going to pupate over the winter? I've had a BST actually pupate two winters before. I know that seems crazy, but I had taped the chrysalis to the siding on the patio, and just forgot about it. I'd check ever so often, and then it finally eclosed. It always looked healthy, so I never messed with it. Susan had the same thing happen.
MissSherry
10 years ago
After I typed that post about not ever having swallowtail on swallowtail, I kept having this vague memory of actually having had that. I think it was two black swallowtails, and I think each emerged perfectly. It was a long time ago.

Sherry
wifey2mikey
10 years ago
Yes, I actually still have one outside that had one on top of it. They had overwintered. The top one eclosed but the bottom one never has. ::: shrug::: who knows?

~Laura