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bandjzmom

Attention: MissSherry/ Spicebush rearing question

bandjzmom
10 years ago

Hey Sherry, and whoever else has an opinion, I have a Spicebush SWT rearing question. I am currently raising 7 little Spicebush cats. I am using the floral tubes for the Spicebush cuttings. I am now reminded that Spicebush cuttings have a tendency to wilt rather quickly. When the cutting wilts, this leaves the little cats inside wilty leaf huts. I put in fresh Spicebush cuttings, and I situate the wilted leaf huts on top of the new cuttings, hoping to encourage the little guys to move on over to fresher fields. The thing is that they seem very content to remain inside the wilty leaf huts. Do you think that I should move them over to fresher cuttings or let them decide? They are eating the wilty leaves. I know that my Spicebush plants out in the yard get wilty quickly in sun. So, maybe the cats are used to living on wilty plants? Thanks for advice.
Angie

Comments (15)

  • MissSherry
    10 years ago

    This is always a problem when raising spicebush swallowtails, Angie. Sassafras wilts easily, unfortunately, and I've experieced these same problems.
    It really doesn't matter what condition the nest is in, wilted or dried up, as long as there is fresh food for the cat to eat when it leaves the nest to eat. So, if the wilted nest has bad looking leaves on the same stem, I pick them off, then put the stem with the cat nest on it in the hole in the leftovers container with a fresh stem next to it. If the leaves on the nest stem still look okay, I leave them and don't add a fresh stem. If the cats are late instar, I also sometimes cut off just one leaf, but only if it's mature, because immature leaves wilt quickly after being cut, even in water. The mature leaf will stay fresh for several days with the base of it poked down in the water next to the stem with the cat nest on it. I cut stems with immature leaves on it for early instar cats. I also hose down the leaves with my kitchen sprayer before putting them in the leftovers containers for the cats to eat, except for that first stem the hatchling or egg is on - I can't hose down the stem without hosing down the tiny little cat. So, I check it out real good for nastiness and/or spiders, dip the base of it in water if I can without harming the hatchling or egg.

    I'm raising four little spicebush cats now. I put a long fresh stem in last night next to two stems with nothing but nests and the cats in them I think these two must have been molting inside the nests. They both came out recently and have eaten the new leaves and made new nests.
    It's a good thing there's plenty of sassafras around here, since I waste a lot of it feeding spicebush cats in the cage. If I don't, though. they'll likely get eaten, not only when they're cats, but even before. There was an egg on some sassafras that I left on the plant until it hatched, because if I bring the eggs in, by the time the egg hatches, the leaves are already pretty bad. But the egg suddenly disappeared one day - I'm pretty sure something ate it. :(

    Raising caterpillars of any kind can be difficult at this time of year, because the leaves on all the trees and bushes are old - they've been there since March - with very little new growth. I found a gold mine of new growth about a mile from my house, though, where a tornado went through on Christmas day, last year. The owners cleaned off the debris, but the tree stumps are making new growth like crazy - I got a lot of nice sweetgum and wild black cherry for my cats. I'm going today and see if any sassafras is re-sprouting.

    So, I just muddle through with spicebush cats, but I don't raise too many at one time. All that leaf switching gets aggravating.

    Sherry

  • terrene
    10 years ago

    Bandjmom, below is a link to a thread about Spicebush Swallowtails that MissSherry started a couple years ago and I was so thankful she started it, because it was the first time I attempted to raise a few with MissSherry's help.

    Here are some pics I posted in that thread. I collected nice tender Sassafras albidum foliage from small trees that were growing next to a stream in nearby woods.
    {{gwi:453356}}

    I tried to roughly follow Ladobe's method of taking cuttings from the wild (no ice though). I used florist tubes and zipper bags. The cuttings are kept moist in a Zipper bag and stored on the bottom shelf in the fridge. Periodically you rinse and re-moisten and put back in fridge. Using this method it kept the foliage fresh for a long time and I was able to give them fresh leaves every day.
    {{gwi:507298}}

    Here is a pic of the cats after they got fresh foliage - they were so excited to get new leaves that 3 of them immediately made new leaf folds. :)
    {{gwi:507299}}

    Here is a link that might be useful: Spicebush Swallowtails

  • bandjzmom
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Many thanks to Sherry and terrene for the info. Glad to know that it isn't just me who has problems with the cuttings. The little cats put so much effort into spinning silk and constructing the leaf huts, that I felt that it wouldn't be the right thing to forcibly relocate them. Would be traumatizing I would think. This is only my second time raising them. I had 7, and today I found 5 more, so now I have 12! I am going to try the refrigeration/zip bag method. That worked well for the Pawpaw leaves when I was raising the Zebras. Sherry, I have been doing what you said. I put in fresh cuttings and as soon as a cat leaves its hut, I snip that leaf off, so that it is forced to rebuild on a new fresh leaf. Wish I could build the huts for them!! I will keep you posted.
    Angie

  • MissSherry
    10 years ago

    Angie, I let my little cats stay in their dried up nests as long as they want to, though they usually like to build quite a few of them. I don't worry too much about them making a lot of nests, because they do the same thing naturally outside. And yes, please do keep me posted!

    The baggie method sounds like a great way to keep cuttings fresh before you feed them to the cats, but once you take the cuttings out, do they last longer than they would had you left them on the tree/bush? If you don't live close to their host plants, I can see how this would be good, keeping you from having to travel a great distance to get the fresh food. In my case, I live in the woods, so there's not much difference.

    Sherry

  • bandjzmom
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Well, the Spicebushes are just in my back yard, so I don't have to go far to get cuttings. I just wonder if refrigerating them would help them to last longer before they get wilty. I'll let you know. I feel so terrible when their leaf huts are hanging limply at the end of the leaves. Bad Mom syndrome I think!!
    Angie

  • MissSherry
    10 years ago

    Okay, Angie. Twelve spicebush swallowtails is a lot to raise! I don't know that I have that kind of patience, myself! :/

    Sherry

  • terrene
    10 years ago

    Well you guys are lucky you have the cat food for the Spicebush Swallowtail right in the back yard. I don't have any Spicebush or Sassafras here. That little grove of Sassafras by the stream which had such tender foliage is about a 20 minute hike away - so going out to get cuttings fresh every day wasn't possible.

    When raising a lot of Monarchs at one time, I usually have to collect additional Asclepias syriaca from the "milkweed field" which is also about 20 minutes away. I use the same florist tube and ziploc bag method for those and keep them in the fridge, which keeps the large stalks of A. syriaca pretty fresh too.

  • MissSherry
    10 years ago

    Angie, I didn't say, or didn't mean to say, that you need to cut off the hut the cat builds. I just cut off the bad leaves on the same stem as the hut, so the cat will be forced to eat from the fresh leaves on the stem next to the hut. It's up to the cat to build a new hut or not - they usually do that when they outgrow the one they've been living in.

    I hope I haven't confused you. It's hard to explain all this in writing - if you were here, I could show you.

    Sherry

  • bandjzmom
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Well Sherry, the one I did cut off yesterday was becoming crispy in addition to being limp and was hanging by a thread!! It was past time for that cat to build again!!!! I found another tiny cat, which puts me up to 13 now. Have you had much issue with cannibalism with them?
    terrene...I do feel fortunate to finally have some Spicebush established out there. It sure took awhile though. :o)
    Angie

  • bandjzmom
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Goodness...found 3 eggs today. 13 Spicebush cats and 3 eggs, Whew! Awesome!

  • MissSherry
    10 years ago

    I found another little bitty cat while I was getting fresh food for the cats, so I'm up to 5 now. It's not near as many as you have, Angie, but it's plenty for me!

    The older three have grown considerably!

    Sherry

  • bandjzmom
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Gosh Sherry, I am in shock over the Spicebush bonanza here. Now, I am finding eggs. I currently have 14 cats and 6 eggs. I can't wait until the cats get their green on, and I can photograph them together!
    Angie

  • bandjzmom
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Gosh Sherry, I am in shock over the Spicebush bonanza here. Now, I am finding eggs. I currently have 14 cats and 6 eggs. I can't wait until the cats get their green on, and I can photograph them together!
    Angie

  • MissSherry
    10 years ago

    Wow, you really are in the spicebush swallowtail buiness, Angie!

    I don't know how much spicebush you've got, but I hope it's plenty or else you have a lot of sassafras growing around you!

    I released the first spicebush swallowtail from my last little group, a female - I always enjoy releasing them!

    I also saw a palamedes swallowtail circling the big redbay in my yard, but I didn't see any eggs laid. The tree has gotten so big, even on my tall ladder I wouldn't be able to see much of what's going on. I can see lots of healthy looking new growth up there, so it's a good candidate for palamedes eggs.

    Sherry

  • bandjzmom
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    I really am Sherry, and I am loving it! I think that I have plenty of Spicebush to get them through. I really do need to scour the nearby woods for Sassafras so that I know where back up food is if needed though. I love releasing the butterflies too. It makes my heart sing! It must be so cool to have Palamedes Swallowtails in your yard. I would adore seeing one in person. :o)
    Angie

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