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misssherryg

Luna Moth Caterpillars

MissSherry
16 years ago

I was fortunate enough to acquire some luna moth eggs from a very kind Butterfly Forum member in the northeast to help me to re-establish lunas in this area. I'm feeding them sweetgum and black gum leaves - these are both known to be host plants for lunas, and there is plenty of it on my property, including new growth, not just old growth that's been on the trees since February or March and is old and not looking good. I put the leaves through holes I punched in the tops of leftovers containers that I had filled with water, and put the two containers in the middle of my real big cage. I haven't counted them yet, but I should be able to do so soon. They're getting big enough that they won't be able to slip through the mesh covering on the cage, so I think I can start using water picks to hold their leaves pretty soon - I attach the water picks to the sides of the cage. That'll be good in another way - they'll be farther apart and not likely to bother each other.

I got this picture of a cat that had just molted. I don't know what instar this is - first? second? Anyway, they're doing very well, eating, pooping, and growing nicely!

{{gwi:525954}}
MissSherry

Comments (153)

  • jmcat
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    It's beautiful, Sherry!
    -Jmcat

  • bernergrrl
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Yippee!! How exciting to see him or her. so beautiful! Thanks for giving us the update!

  • todancewithwolves
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Beautiful, Miss Sherry...just absolutely beautiful.

    Edna

  • linda_centralokzn6
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    It is gorgeous, Miss Sherry. Congrats!!! Hope that you are successful in getting them re-established in your area.

  • kwoods
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I wonder if it's the same guy that is shown in your original post. ;o)

    I'm glad you've done so well. I hope you get a female soon and get to raise some "home grown" ones this year.

  • dizzy45
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Missherry,
    That is a wonderful thing you have done to re-establish the Luna's on your place. My husband used to tell me sad stories of the Luna's that would go to the bright lights at work then come early morning would go to the big rolls of nickel that his company uses. Then they would get killed by getting to cold and getting stuck on the rolls. This is in another town. I have lived here for years in Indiana and have never even seen one in flight. I have wild cherry tree's and lots of other tree's as well for them but not a one!! after you get yours established maybe you could send me a baby cat then maybe I can see them in my lifetime>

    Thank you
    Carol

  • MissSherry
    Original Author
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I'm happy to do it!
    I moved the other cocoons out of his cage into another bigger one, then moved the cage with him in it to the front porch last night. He never left the cage. It got down into the upper 30's so maybe it was too cold for him to fly, or maybe he wouldn't leave because no female was out there "calling" - the term "calling" always reminds me of that old song Indian Love Call - "I am calling you--hoo-hoo-hoo--hoo-hoo-hoo" :)
    I think he emerged too early. It's 70F degrees now, but it's supposed to rain tonight, not good weather for moths either. Thankfully, I've got several other luna cocoons, so at least if he's "wasted" he wasn't carrying lots of eggs!
    Sherry

  • dizzy45
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Sherry,
    I just love this story!! it's not only informative but also just a great love story you and the luna's!
    I have so many tree's they would love here in Indiana
    I am calling you who hoo hoo hoo!! In the evenings here I always watch my big yard light I see bats sometimes but never the luna's.

    Carol

  • kwoods
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "My husband used to tell me sad stories of the Luna's that would go to the bright lights at work"

    Light pollution screws them up. Gravid females are often attracted to mercury vapor lights. It's one way of collecting them. I sometimes visit a parking garage here and collect prometheas, cecropias, lunas.

  • dizzy45
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I wish but no one is allowed on the grounds it is a huge grounds with a security fence and guards. My husband plant works with nichol and so there you go..no way to get them but then again those lights are way up there like 40 feet or more. My yard light is like 25 feet high.

    Carol

  • butterflymomok
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    MissSherry,

    I haven't posted lately, but I have been keeping up with your Luna moths. I have really enjoyed the posts and the pictures. You have some incredible experiences. I think you need to consider doing a book. I know I'd buy it.

    Sandy

  • MissSherry
    Original Author
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks, Sandy!
    I think I'm learning enough about lunas to write a book!
    Another luna has emerged from the batch that I raised. Since I'm so poor at sexing them, I won't try, especially since it's in my dark guest room right now. I think I'll just leave the door open like I did with my other one this evening when I put him/her on the porch - if it's a female, she might stay in the cage waiting for a male.
    A palamedes swallowtail emerged this morning also, and I just released it - I'm pretty sure he was a male.
    Sherry

  • katob Z6ish, NE Pa
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Congrats Sherry, I'm happy for you! I hope you get a female and even better would be if she can draw a wild male out of the woods for you! Maybe they're not all gone - they just need a little help.

  • katob Z6ish, NE Pa
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I just read your other post on moth help. Too cool that you did find a wild one and can have such a diverse family!

  • MissSherry
    Original Author
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Yes, Kato, I've got 116 eggs out there in the cage on the porch about to hatch, at least I hope they'll hatch. I was told that the cold weather the male experienced may have hurt his sperm - sure hope not!
    It sure is hot and windy today, sheesh, the Santa Ana winds must have come to Mississippi!
    Sherry

  • trippy557
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I found a partially developed Luna Moth. It has the head, feet and partially developed wings of a moth and the fully developed body of a catapillar. Has anyone seen this happen before?

  • saturniidaebreeder
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    trippy557- can you post a picture of it?
    Cant wait till my lunas eclose, hopefully soon!
    -S.B.

  • brownknees
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hi,
    I've been reading these postings for about 2 weeks now since my oldest son called me on his last day of school to tell me he was sitting next to a luna moth. (I thought he was crazy...I've NEVER seen one around here). Long story short, we took it in knowing it would soon pass. Well to our surprise "it" turned out to be a she...and laid 115 eggs inside my younger son's hamper. (one of those mesh ones from IKEA). I carefully removed the eggs (two little boys need a hamper as they make a ton of dirty clothes) and now they have hatched out. I have them in a glass apothicary jar with a fine mesh over the top. They are happily eating shag bark Hickory (thanks to my favorite nursery here who has given me permission to take as much as I need in trade for releasing some of them there). I have learned that they will eat and eat and eat and apparently go through a couple of stages where they split out of their old skin when it gets too tight. I noticed however that a couple of them seem to be against the glass with webbing around them. They only hatched out last Thursday so are only 5 days old. Does anyone know if this is normal??? I haven't read anywhere that they will do this before going onto the next stage of caterpiller life. (sorry for the apparent lack of proper terminology...I know plants but not moths) Any help or advise would be greatly appreciated.
    thanks
    Sharon G in CT

  • MissSherry
    Original Author
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Congrats on your lunas, Sharon! I recently released a few second generation moths from that same group.
    Your cats on the sides of the glass with webbing around them are probably molting/between instars. As they grow and get bigger, it gets harder for them to get any privacy to molt - they don't like to be disturbed at that time.
    Sherry

  • brownknees
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks Miss Sherry
    I just figured that out!! Man, they get big FAST!!! I had noticed that they were not doing much of anything before they molted and I caught a couple wiggling out of their previous skins yesterday morning. Poor little things a couple took a LOOOONG time to get that last little bit off!! Now just 24 hours later some of them have almost doubled in size!! My boys are getting more excited now that they are big enough to spot easily among the leaves. I'll keep you all posted!! Thanks
    Sharon G in CT
    (I'd better get them a larger home soon!!)

  • brownknees
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Well I'm back from TX and all my babies are doing well thanks to a great friend who is as crazy as I am!! Had a question that I haven't seen addressed~when the cats are ready to go to cocoon what do they look like? I know they do a gut dump (black swallowtails have it all over the luna's for ick factor...raised them last year) but I have noticed that two of them have their hind quarters (last 2-3 sets of legs) are black and not moving. They are quite small now and very lethargic (which I know is normal)is this black coloration normal? I wonder because I did find a spider in my tank two days ago which was promptly removed. Now I wonder if it may have been bitten. Also, is there a leaf you would recommend for them to take cover in? Something they don't eat that is safe for them? I think those 3.5" sausage siblings would eat them out of their cocoons!!! Thanks again...if I knew how to attach pictures I would ...need to ask the hubby for instructions!!

  • MissSherry
    Original Author
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks for bringing up this thread, Brownknees, since it has some information on it about controlling emergence times that I was interested in re-reading.
    When lunas are ready to cocoon, they change to a yellowy color and start to move around the cage without eating, much like butterflies do just not as fast. I don't remember the bowel emptying as being as prominent as it is with butterfly cats, but it did happen. I used the regular host plant food for them to cocoon in, which in the case of lunas was sweetgum, and as soon as I could see they were making their cocoon, I'd cut off the portion of the branch they were on and move it to another cage where they could do this in privacy and not get nibbled by the other cats. One of my cecropia cats looks like it's about to spin its cocoon, so I've put a lot of extra branches in the cage with them.
    Having black on their hind parts doesn't sound good, I know mine never showed that.
    Was somebody taking care of your luna cats while you were gone? I think one of the most important things in raising caterpillars successfully is to be at home all the time with them. There are SO many things that come up during the course of the day that can only be solved by being there.
    Sherry

  • brownknees
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hi Sherry
    Thanks for the information...I declared the little guy "dead" today and tossed him out back...if it is still alive then it'll make his/her way out there. The entire body shrunk up (is that a word?)and turned black but it still had some flexibility to it but I still think it was dead. I DO however have my first successful cocooner!! I did notice a color change (kind of peachy)and a "mess" on a fresh leaf that I had added~ just minutes later it was pulling a leaf up over itself so I removed it and found threads on it's feet. It is now in another jar and just like I read the head is going back and forth and it's sealing itself up in there snug as a bug...I'm so excited!!! I'll keep you posted...only 60 or so more to go!!
    Sharon G in CT

  • brownknees
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Oh man every time I look there are new cocoons!! I have 32 with another 15 to go!! Two cats are still very small like under an inch...I wonder if they have parasites? I have read that a certain parasite (forgot what) can actually hold off the growing stages to be able to live longer? (hope this is not the case) I walk by the cocoons at night and you can hear them scritching and scratching away in there.
    Have a question though..I reread this thread and I'm wondering...Miss Sherry...did it take from August of last year to March of this for them to hatch? Or did I just miss a generation there? Like everyone, I'm wondering when I will see the end result of this facinating journey!! (My husbands co-workers now refer to me as the "bug lady" after telling all about them at a 4th of July picnic!) they just don't get it!!
    Thanks
    Sharon G in CT

  • MissSherry
    Original Author
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    All of last year's lunas overwintered, and all of them emerged as healthy moths this spring, although in my latititude, some of them could have emerged last fall. I then raised two luna cats from one of the females, they cocooned, and emerged within a few weeks - can't remember exactly when that was, maybe early summer? I'll guess that yours will overwinter, since yours are summer cats and you're up north, but it's possible that some will emerge in a few weeks, especially since you've got so many. Lunas are not necessarily once a year moths, like cecropias and regals and imperials - the latitude north or south, the time of the year, and the individual determine just when they'll emerge. I think I remember that in your latitude, two generations a year is the norm, so except for a few oddballs, you'll probably have your cocoons until next spring.
    Sherry

  • brownknees
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks again Miss Sherry...my husband will be thrilled!! ha ha ha I promised him that they would no longer be joining us for dinner (I have the 20 gallon tank on the kitchen table!!) in just a couple of weeks when I was sure they would hatch out! I think they may have to get a residence change to the breezway once they are all in cocoon. I read the part about keeping them in the fridge but that would go over like a lead balloon here. He's tolerant of my weirdness but I doubt I could convince him to keep 60 cocoons next to the broccoli!! I'll keep you posted!
    Sharon G in CT

  • MissSherry
    Original Author
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hehehe! I don't think I'm going to put my cecropias in the fridge, either, Sharon - it's a little much for even me. I'll treat my cocoons like I always do, that is, they'll stay protected in the reptarian cage on the porch in the natural air until about December, at which time all my cocoons and chrysalids go in my unheated guest room, where the temperature is normally between 50F and 60F degrees, then back to the porch in late February.
    Sherry

  • brownknees
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I'm a MOMMY!!! I have my first luna baby as of yesterday afternoon!! I'm a little surprised and it's a good thing my 6 year old is much shorter than I or I never would have known. I finally moved my tank to my breezway since all the cats had finally pupated (is that a word?)and was thinking towards next spring. Most of the people I have told about them agreed that they would probably wait out the winter for me. I did notice that this moth is smaller than the mother only about 2.75" across but it has very slender antanea so I'm thinking female?? She/it keeps releasing a pearly white liquid so I wonder if this is the solution they use to melt out of the cocoon or if there might be something wrong with it?? Have you ever seen this before with yours?
    Thanks
    Sharon G in CT

  • MissSherry
    Original Author
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Congrats, Sharon!
    Yes, all moths release a liquid when they first emerge, but I've never even stopped to consider that this liquid is probably the cocoonaise that I've read about. It probably is, I'll have to look it up!
    The two female lunas I released that were daughters of one the originals were smaller than their parents - must be a late season emergence thing. Female lunas have bigger antennae than most other female moths, but they're still much smaller than the males' antennae - males have a big 'comb' and females have a smaller one. Yours sounds like a female. I just left the door of the cage half opened, and the males found them there - most of my females never left the cage until they had mated!
    Congrats again!
    Sherry
    P.S. I notice that your name is Sharon, very close to the official butterfly/caterpillar name - Sherry! :)

  • brownknees
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    IT'S A BOY!!!
    There are now 2 partners in crime sharing my tank!!! Definatly male/female...oh boy another breeding about to be undertaken!!! ha ha ha
    this newest boy has HUGE antannea compared to the one that hatched out the other day...she stopped "leaking" so I'm not so worried anymore. I wonder if that cocoon mayonaise (what did you call it??) will melt the others in the tank? Hope not.
    This is so exciting...thanks for sharing your knowledge with me I truly appreciate it!!
    Sharon G in CT

  • MissSherry
    Original Author
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hehehe!! You're welcome, Sharon!
    I forgot to look up cocoon mayonnaise :) so I need to get on it. I don't think it'll hurt the others.
    Sherry

  • brownknees
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks...it looks like mayonnaise!! I guess that when your life span in only a couple of days there's not much time for courting!! My male is "making the rounds" (man, I'm jealous at his stamina!) I checked my tank around 3am and he was...um let's just say "locked" in conversation with my female...when I got up at 7 they were still engrossed in their talk (about the olympics I guess) and another female was waiting patiently at the top of the tank!! I'm starting to think that I'll have less to overwinter at this rate. I'm thinking about putting the first female in a paper bag for another batch of eggs but I'm not sure how to keep them fed once the leaves start to change...do the eggs somehow know not to hatch this time of year?? Guess I'll find out cuz I can't resist trying this again!!
    Sharon G in CT
    ps anyone want some eggs???

  • MissSherry
    Original Author
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I'd like about 12-15 - I'll e-mail you my snail my address.
    Sherry

  • KC Clark - Zone 2012-6a OH
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Sharon G,

    Since you already have one pairing, I suggest you take a shot at getting some wild males involved. I used to have success with just putting females on the back of my house (took a couple years for the local birds to figure out what I was up to). Or you could try the aquarium method I've seen on here or the modified birdcage method I use. And it really is cool to look out your window to see a bunch of male lunas flying around.

    KC

  • brownknees
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    KC
    I tried that for a couple of nights but we had no visitors. I did release all that have hatched at my friends nursery where there is plenty of white birch...thought they would have a better chance of finding a "non" related mate!! My eggs have all hatched and I'm hoping that I can get them to cocoon before the leaves all fall!! Most have just gone to 2nd instar so I think it will be a bit of a race for time but I think it will be ok at this point.

  • norwegianmama
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    What an interesting forum! I found a Luna moth caterpillar on a sidewalk on Tuesday. It was apparently a 5th instar, as that night it cocooned in the jar it was in with some leaves. The jar has a lid with some holes in it.

    I'm wondering what do I do now? It is mid-Sept and getting cool here in the Pacific Northwest. I've created an ad hoc cage -- used 2 embroidery hoops and some netting. Where should this winter? Inside? Outside? I would appreciate any advice you are able to share with me.

    I haven't heard/seen it move -- should I nudge it?

    Thank you!

  • brownknees
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Your cat will most likely overwinter at this late date. I have my cocoons on an unheated breezway so that the animals can't get to them. If you leave it inside there is a chance it will hatch out too late in the season for it to find a mate. If it just made it's cocoon it will be quiet for about 2 weeks or so and then you might hear some rattling. Mine needed to pupate first before I got the "rock and roll"! It's undergoing a wonderful change so don't poke at it. Unless I am moving them they are pretty uneventful however if you do notice a lot of activity about 4 or so weeks from now you may have a luna sooner than you think!! Keep us informed
    Sharon

  • mroosa
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I found a large fat green caterpillar in August crawling across the parking lot at work. I brought it home in a paper cup to show my sons we put it in their bug keeper. It was late so we went to bed and the next morning the caterpillar had cocooned. The cocoon is white. We did a search on the internet and learned it was a luna moth caterpillar. We did not find much information except it might come emerge in 4 weeks or next spring. We did not know to mist the cocoon. The Cocoon is white and has started moving. Is the moth ready to come out? Will he/she be able to if we have not been misting the cocoon? Any advise would help. My son is very upset that the moth may not make it out. Can we safely cut open the cocoon? We have kept it inside on the top of the refrigerator. I feel bad now as we have not been misting it and the moth maybe trapped. Any information will be appreciated.

  • MissSherry
    Original Author
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Don't cut open the cocoon, you might kill it, and it won't be able to emerge correctly later on!
    Since it's so late in the year, it probably won't emerge until spring, so if I were you, I'd leave it alone, protected, in a cool place.
    I've never seen a white luna cocoon, actually I've never seen a white cocoon at all. Luna moths make golden brown cocoons - they look sort of like a pecan. Polyphemus moth caterpillars look almost identical to luna moth cats, but their cocoons are paler, more of a light golden color.
    Why don't you just keep your cocoon over the winter, checking on it every day in case it emerges and you'll know to release it? It'll be fun to see what emerges next spring!
    Sherry

  • KC Clark - Zone 2012-6a OH
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    mroosa,

    As Sherry said, don't cut open the cocoon. Luna pupas are very active, even months before the moth will emerge, so Luna cocoon movement is normal at any time.

    You didn't say where you live so I'm going to assume you live in an area that is too cold for Luna moths in December: Don't worry about misting the cocoon, unless you are keeping it IN the refrigerator. I do NOT recommend keeping it in a frig since that means you need to remember to mist the cocoon. Best place for cocoon storage is in an unheated shed/garage/screened porch. An unheated attached garage would rank next. Keep the cocoon in something that keeps mice/predators out.

    The white cocoon is a new one on me. Many cocoons are white when first spun but then darken. I've never had a Luna cocoon that didn't have some leaves attached. I'm assuming your cocoon has no leaves so maybe the caterpillar adjusted its silk to compensate for the lack of leaves. I would love to see a pic of your cocoon.

    Just had a thought about your white cocoon. Did the caterpillar make the white cocoon around itself or did the white cocoon appear next to the caterpillar?

    KC

  • MissSherry
    Original Author
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    KC's post reminds me that, actually, I should have said I HAVE seen many white cocoons, but they were all the cocoons of small cats, not the kind you described. When you said large green cat, and you thought it was a luna, I assumed you really meant big. If you're not into caterpillars, you might think a middling size green cat is big.
    As far as I know, none of the big saturnid moths make white cocoons.
    Sherry

  • KC Clark - Zone 2012-6a OH
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I'm giving this a bump because it was close to being bumped off (was on page 64). Lots of good info I did not want disappearing.

    I'm officially back in the luna game after a two year hiatus. Put a girl out last night. First male showed up at 3:30. I grabbed him, put him in the bird cage and he promptly hooked up. Four more stragglers showed up after the first. Also had a poly girl out. First male showed up at 5. Two more showed up before 5:30.

    KC

  • MissSherry
    Original Author
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Congrats on the lunas, KC! My latest batch are all cocooning, and I'm waiting for the eggs on the door to hatch. I moved the eggs to a little plastic container I use for hatchlings.
    How I love those lunas - I must, since I keep gathering those sweetgum leaves, on and on and on....... :)
    Sherry

  • butterflymomok
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    When I went to gather some Sweetgum leaves today, the owner came out and greeted me. I told him the caterpillars were close to pupating so the bunch I gathered today could be the last. I've been keeping them refrigerated to feed as needed. He was very cordial and told me to come and get whatever I needed. I asked him if he saw very many lunas. He told me he sees lots of them all the time. He has five huge Sweetgum trees lining the road. So . . . I am hopeful of having a wild male come calling when these are raised. This is within a mile of my house.

    I think mine were slow growing at first as they were in the air conditioned house. They have been in the sunroom now for over a week, and are rapidly going through the food. I replaced this morning's food already today. They are really getting fat.

    Sandy

  • KC Clark - Zone 2012-6a OH
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Went into my moth/butterfly room this morning and discovered two luna moths, one on the ceiling and one on the radio. Both males. Definitely not good that my second brood cocoons are hatching now.

    I lost a lot of cats to bacteria on the sweetgum I was using so I do not have many luna cocoons this year. I tried to save my last 10 luna cats on sweetgum by soaking their sweetgum but they all died. My last 2 luna cats have not been doing well. I don't think they like their birch getting soaked in 10% chlorine. My birch has been a death machine the last 2-3 years. Thought I'd try chlorine this year. Some cecropias have made it but the two lunas have been very slow to develop and after 7 weeks, they are not close to full size and are very lethargic.

  • tomatoworm59
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Sherry, the Polyphemus spins a white cocoon. Unlike the Luna, the Poly cocoon is quite dense. They spin a LOT of silk! Their cocoons look like tiny surgical casts. In fact, it is because of this, that the Poly's first cousin, native to China, Antheraea pernyi, was and may still be used for silk, just as the Bombyx is. The Cynthia moth is also used for silk. At one time, Cynthias were common in NE US, but have largely died off, chiefly due to habitat loss as well as parasitoids such as the tachinid fly.

    Susanlynne, one sureshot way to tell male from female Luna, at a glance, is color. The females are that characteristic green, while males are yellow-green. I could tell from my upstairs bedroom window, the Luna I saw, resting on a young hickory, was most definitely a male. No way could I see its body size or antennae. I hope this helps.

  • MissSherry
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Boy, this is sure an old thread!
    That's terrible about you losing your moth cats, KC! I didn't realize bacteria were such a problem for the big moths, but I should have guessed.
    It's interesting that this thread is back on, because I've been seeing black "raspberries" underneath a sweetgum tree close to my house. The lowest branch is too high up for me to reach it, even on my tallest, 8' ladder, but I bet it's a luna moth cat. I haven't raised any lunas in a while.
    If somebody has some eggs they want to share I could raise some now - I'm only raising 3 cats presently, 2 gulf frits and 1 question mark. I may find more QMs, but probably not many more.
    Sherry

  • Mars SC Zone 8b Mars
    3 years ago

    show pics!

  • Mars SC Zone 8b Mars
    3 years ago

    Man, she is not coming back!

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