Just throwing mesh over the bush probably won't help much, Catherine, because wasps and tachinid flies can (and will!) sting or lay eggs on the cats through the mesh if the cats are laying right against it. If the cats were all on the bottom of the bush, and you were able to throw the netting over the bush and tie it off underneath, that would work, but this would probably be difficult to make work. What happens when the cats crawl to the top, which is the place they most like to be?
I've never done much sleeving, because the frass makes such a mess in the sleeve, and you have to move the sleeve to new leaves after they've eaten all that's in the sleeve - this is harder to do than it sounds, because you could easily hurt the cat in the process.
This is a good time to ask the question - is there a good sleeve with built-in support that keeps the body of it from laying directly on the cat/s? I'd sure buy some if any like that were for sale.
If you check on them once a day, you'll see them in plenty of time to release them.
Sherry

Thanks Sherry. I forgot about the other other predators, other than birds.

I found at Walmart a white mesh laundry bag that's 36"x24" ($1.70). I suppose this might work for a small bush. It has a drawstring that I could tighten around the bottom........but this would only work for a very small bush. But it would be great if they just sold yards of this same material.
Hmmm.....how about that material called tulle? I'm thinking of putting up some 4' tall bamboo sticks around the bush and laying the material over them, to keep it off the bush. Then I could just lay a couple rocks ontop of the tulle at the bottom of the bush to keep the bottom closed. I think those holes are too small for the insect predators.

Lots of great advice ladobe! Thanks so much!
One question.......if you do add leaves to to sleeves of the ones who might overwinter, will they freeze if its off the ground?

Probably depends entirely on the location of the sleeve, and your winter habitat. If set in close proximity of the ground in snow country the snow makes an excellent insulator against freezing, so probably not. In other environmental habitats in the bottom of a sleeve is not much different than in leaf litter, shallow soil or under rocks/debry when it comes to freezing, so also probably not. Many species can and do survive a freeze anyway. In my experience with those species I did overwinter outside over the years, I used mostly cages I built just for that purpose both at home and at wild locations to house oovum, larvae ansd pupa to further protect them from would be predators looking for an easy mid winter snack. But I did also OW some in sleeves (especially pupae that normally remain above ground naturally). I never lost any overwintering livestock to freezing in cages or sleeves, not when in the deep snow country, not elsewhere. I did however OW most of my livestock in spare refridgerators kept in my garages for that purpose and holding cut LFP's, so I could control their winter environment exactly. The outside was done as research (especially those in the wild) or as over flow from the reefers of species that required little or no attention all winter. Just use common sense to steer you in the right direction.

Thanks again ladobe.

My wife has made me two sleeves this year. "Very easy" are not the words she would use to describe the process. I asked her today when she was going to make more. I got the stare. :D She did not like me paying $10/sleeve for the commercial ones but I get the feeling I'll be allowed to buy some new ones next year.

Below is a link to the thread where Larry gave more detailed sleeve instructions.

Here is a link that might be useful: Sleeving

KC,

If a big burly guy like me can figure out how to use a sewing machine and make a sleeve in a few minutes or less, a homemaker ought to be able to do it even easier and faster. Keep them simple... windows, zippers, and other embellishments are far more trouble than they are worth and just add a lot of extra work and cost in the making.

How hard is it to cut a rectangle of netting, sew a small curtain rod type tunnel on one end for the draw cord to go through, fold it in half and sew it into a tube lengthwise with the other end closed while also anchoring the tether cord? Even putting draw cords on both ends adds very little extra work or time. KISS says it all. They are not going to be entered in the county fair, they just need to be made functional.

If you'd learn how to use the sewing machine KC you won't get that stare! ;) Anybody that "wants to" can make them easily.

I think my son has what I had left of my sleeves (as well as my cages, nets, all my night lighting equipment and pretty much all of my lep stuff) or I would take a few pictures of some sleeves "that I made myself" to show that they look and work as good as any made by a homemaker. Next time I'm at my storage garage I'll look to see if I still have any. LOL

L.

Great info, Ladobe. What type of netting do you use for the sleeves, and where do you get it? I bought this rearing sleeve at the Monarch Watch store, was buying some tags anyway and this looked like it could be useful. Not really sure what I'm going to do with it, but was thinking about overwintering the Swallowtail chrysalises (Papilio polyxenes and P. troilus) in the sleeve.

Also, can you explain a little bit more about OWing your livestock in the refrigerator? Thanks.

The most imnportant charcteristics in sleeve material is mesh size to keep out the smallest predators yet still allow good air flow, and how well its material stands up to all environmental factors. IOW the better the quality the longer they will last. The best materials IMO are polyester with tight 24X24 mesh, not nylons or muslins that don't hold up as well to use or environment. The poly's are usually cheaper too. It can be bought by the yard from some biological supply houses, but they charge high prices. Some textile suppliers will order whatever you want for a far more reasonable price, but you might have to buy an entire bolt from them (what I did). Some lep societies also have it on hand for their members to purchase. And you might find some perfectly serviceable netting at some fabric shops. Color is mostly not important, but the white/ivory mesh allows the livestock to perecieve a little longer photoperiod every day. It also doesn't stand up as well to direct sunlight though, and can overheat a sleeve not well placed on the plant. I used the whites, drab greens and camo materials. A few whites for broods I was concerned about photoperiod for, but mostly the other colors as they are less conspicuous on a plant to protect them better from predators, especially the two-legged kind, but also animals/birds etc that might be able to breach them for the snacks inside.

A solution might be to get enough folks on the forum interested enough in making sleeves to commit for someone to buy a bolt and resell as wanted to all the rest. Most bolts come in various widths and from 40 to 100 yards long. (Know that because my ex and I used to own an antique and quilt store where we stocked 1200-1500 bolts of mostly cotton fabrics.)

As for the overwintering livestock question, I've written long details about my methods a few times on this forum already the past 5 years. A search of the archives to find those posts will answer all your questions about them, and be far easier on me.

(As you can see a simple question can take pages to try to fully answer, which I think every question deserves, but I don't want to type it all yet again). ;)

Larry

I just spoke with my brother, who did his PhD on the Eastern Tiger Swallowtail and now works at Michigan State. He teaches and directs some huge chunk of the biology department, so doesn't have much time for going out into the field. He has about ten sleeves left over from his field days and says I can have them for next year. That will make my life much simpler for raising Monarchs and BST. So far, that's all I've found in my yard--given my limited time. I'm a Hospice physician and it seems we get busier every day. I occasionally give chrysalids (sp?) to patients and they love it.

Martha

docmom.........what a neat thing to give your patients!

This sleeve making is something I'm interested in trying next season. I googled using Larry's fabric specs and there were quite a few sources for purchasing this material by the yard. I've included one such source in the link below, offered in gray and white colors and very reasonably priced by the yard.

Thanks, Larry, for another good discussion on different methods to use to better protect the little guys.

~Mary

Here is a link that might be useful: one source: Tight weave Mesh by the yard

Mary,

Because of the color selection you mentioned and what I found on the page you referenced, I figure you are referring to the two No-See-Um Mesh fabrics which are on the page. The material specific to those fabrics is not listed but I believe you will find them to be nylon. Larry mentioned that polyester was preferred over nylon.

Bio Quip has green polyester netting for $3.45/yard (or white for $3.10) so I would suggest those prices as a starting point to beat.

I'm using the green polyester from Bio Quip for my new sleeves. My old sleeves are white and green ones from MegaView (which resells them to other places like Monarch Watch). I also have white bags from Live Monarch. One advantage I found using the darker green of the Bio Quip material vs. the other sleeves/bags is the birds do not see what is in my new sleeves so they do not attack. The disadvantage is I cannot see if the sleeves are lacking leaves in low light situations. This time of year, most of my sleeves require a 8' or 12' stepladder to reach so peeking in each sleeve for a food check is not a viable option. So, I have to make sure I check my new sleeves while the sun is bright enough.

KC

Here is a link that might be useful: white and green polyester netting

Thank you so much for the correction and the heads up regardng the difference in material. Your link is very helpful and the price per yard is still extremely reasonable. I may just give these outside sleeves a try next season.

~Mary

Since this was last updated, a new option has appeared on the market. They are black rearing socks in two sizes. I have over 60 of them. They have a design flaw but they are cheaper than the alternatives so I use them in places where they work for me.

The design flaw is the fabric piece that surrounds the sock material edges does not come close to the draw strings. So, a 5th instar cecropia can walk right out (that is how I noticed the flaw). To overcome this, you need to roll up the bottom of the sleeve so the drawstring will pull tight above the design flaw.

The workaround is not terrible but it has its disadvantages. When my family is helping me, they tend to forget to use the workaround so I lose caterpillars. It is also tough to do the workaround on branches above your head that need to be pulled down.

I prefer sleeves since I can move them along a branch as the caterpillars finish off leaves. Socks only work on the end of a branch unless you cut back the branch as the leaves are devoured. I don't recommend cutting back the branches since you'll have less to work with next year.

Here is a link that might be useful: caterpillar socks

Houzz cutoff ladobe's first post on Sept. 10th. AFAIK, Larry never did post pics of his sleeves.:

Effort? In the numbers the folks rear here they require very little or no extra effort. You'd have to rear the 10's of thousands a season I once did to understand what extra effort and extra dedication is rearing. ;)

As for moving livestock... I totally disagree. It is as easy or even easier to move them in an outdoor sleeve as in an indoor cage almost regardless of what stage they are in. Simply snip off leaves or branch sections the livestock are on, reach into the new sleeve and trap the cuttings on foilage in the new sleeve location. The larvae will move on their own to the fresh LFP without you ever having touched them. Besides, livestock is not as fragile as you might think. Using proper methods they can be moved at any stage (except maybe the earliest or "J" stage of pupation) unattached to anything without damaging them.

Leps can easily be reared from ovum to pupae in sleeves, and even imago's if desired (including over-wintering). If a species that pupates in leaf litter or underground, simply add medium to the bottom of the sleeve when they get to that stage. The quality of the plant is better than cut plants, the natural environmental factors build strong/healthy livestock and there is no mess in the house to clean up when servicing. Yep, sleeves are a great thing IMO, and should be part of every lep gandeners tool kit in variuos sizes.

I still have a few hundred yards of 550 paracord (the best) and a portable sewing machine stored someplace, so a trip to town or an on-line order for appropriate netting and 2-3 hours making them and I could be knee deep in various sized sleeves again.

Bottom line... they are a very good tool for rearing lepidoptera no matter what species; are cheap and easy to make; will last for many, many years of even constant use; are very easy to wash/sterilize;, to store or transport.

FWIW