I would be curious what is it about a bonsai mix you don't like. And if it is not enough drainage, why you can't alter it to work? Or do you have other plans for it?

There is nothing wrong with experimenting. I don't think this time of year in zone 6 is the time to do it though. I've grown succulents and tropicals for over 30 years and only repot now under emergency situations. Good luck with yours.

I personally wouldn't add clay pot shards to any mix I am going to handle or touch. I like having all my fingers.

randy

I've never used crushed terra cotta, but I think a better substitute would be a calcined clay/diatomite product. Turface, Schultz aquatic plant soil, and Napa Floor Dry are all similar products that will hold a good deal of moisture internally. Turface can be found by searching for vendors on their website, aquatic plant soil can be found at Home Depot around here, and the Floor Dry is found at Napa auto stores.

I use an equal mix of conifer bark, Turface, and granite grit for most of my plants including a Pachypodium lamerei.

"I like having all my fingers."

Ahahaaha! Oh Randy...that's why we have toes. =P

My preference is 100% inorganic. The microflora in a pot is so radically different than in the ground, I just don't understand how or why any organic substrates can be beneficial. To me, any organic component will just break down over time and impede drainage and oxygenation.

x

I can tell almost everyone here has been doing their homework on the container forums...Great JOB!!!!

Mike..-0)

Hmmm, so only people on the container forum know anything about growing plants? I don't frequent that forum, so you're one up on me. :-) I'm only going by experience.

I personally have no problem with organics. Based on the species I grow and how often I repot, there is no breakdown problem.

randy

Randy what soil does this plant grow in when it is living at it's orginial home in Madagascar. I would just want this person to have some options, no wars please. I grow all of my plants in the same mix. Norma

Norma,

I would guess leaf litter, decaying plant material, things like that would be about all the organics the species gets in habitat.

I'm not sure how important knowing habitat soil mix on something like this is. I've seen these over 6 foot tall growing in pure peat.

Am I being accused of starting a war? I'm merely expressing an opinion.

love child

Nothing generates controversy better than a discussion about soil mixes among succulent or bonsai growers. So I will stick my oar in and see if it is bitten off. I use a mix that is totally inorganic and grow both bonsai and succulents in it. It is equal parts (by vol.) pumice (Dry Stall), scoria and Caladama (crushed hardpan). The ingredients are washed to remove all fines before potting. I use an organic fertilizer (Grow Power granules) so over time some organic material is added back into the mix. I have Pachypodium geayii and saundersii both potted in it and they are doing well. The ingredients of my mix are not available everywhere so I tell my bonsai students to buy a standard cactus mix and then cut that with Dry Stall about half and half up to 3/4 Dry Stall. I am sure that this would work for a Pachypodium as well. I think I agree with Randi in the second thread that this is not a good time of year to repot a Pachypodium. If you are worried about rot why not just stop watering now and let the plant ride out the winter dry as it should anyway and repot in the spring when it is just beginning to leaf out?

Randy made a statement that is right on point, "Based on the species I grow and how often I repot..."

The most important thing to consider when devising a potting mix is your environment and how often it changes. One can be successful with many different formulas, but you must have an understanding of all the parameters.

That is why it is a never-ending debate. I prefer 100% inorganics - but I prefer not to have to repot often. Randy has no problems with organics, but he understands when its time to repot and optimize growth. That's just one example. There are many others, too many to list.

I think what all successful growers have in common is they have figured out a formula that works for them. This is what makes gardening an art, not just a science. If the answers were clearly defined, there would be no need for a discussion forum.

So blutarski, you are on the right track with your mix, and you can certainly make it work. And if it doesn't, well hopefully you can figure out what needs to be changed. We have all killed many a plant...

x

thank you everybody, y'allhave some really good suggestions.

Just to clarify:

I might have already unpotted the plant. And by 'might' I mean 'absolutely.' In hindsight, I should've waited, but there was a ton of roots coming out the drain hole, and to make a long story short, I didn't want to trim them, but I also couldn't store it safely inside with them there. (At least that's how I'm justifying it to myself.)

At any rate, the plant is still well leafed and hasn't really lost any at this stage, so my thinking is that I could repot it, water it in (or not) and let it go to sleep in front of a bright window.

Why I don't like the bonsai mix I've used lately is that the last time or two that I've used it it hasn't drained as quickly as I'd like. Also, I'm liking the idea of building a special mix for a special plant.

So, it sounds like I'm on the right track. I'm going to look for some turface or pumice.

I potting this plant originally two years ago in straight commercial CS potting soil. It grew and grew but what was left in the pot was used up and compacted. I'm not sure what this means, just throwing it out there.

thanks again.

...I've learned that MP's tend to live in rock fissures where soil and humus have accumulated. They've been found growing in rocky substrates, as well as in sand.

so, unless I grow it in straight compost, I'm probably not going to do too much harm.

Here is a link that might be useful: wiki page on pachypodium

I should've left it in the pot, THEN planted the whole thing in a larger one, to reproduce a rock fissure setting. Has anyone ever tried this?

Randy what I want to know is what is under all of that litter, clay, sandstone, granite, quartzite, or just rocky sand. Some plants grow just in any little crack their seeds may fall. Pelargonium on rocky hillsides or ditches, now did I word this question better? Norma

Norma,

G. Rowley states in Pachypodium & Adenium (page 51) "P. geayi forms a striking feature of south-western Madagascar, where it grows in dry woodlands on calcareous and schist soils."

Hope that helps.

randy

Okay, so it's re-potted.

Used mostly aquarium gravel, some marble chips, some fir bark, and broken terra cotta.

I was worried, but I don't think I am now.

It's not dormant yet, it's still well leafed. It's going to be relatively warm over the next few days- I could put it back outside to get some natural sun. It should do fine.

Do these things actually go "dormant'? I thought plants from those areas are continually growing, just alot slower?

Quite an interesting species. Goodluck with it.
Just don't forget about the PH it thrives in too..:-)

I think you just defined dormancy, Mike. Alive, but growing a lot slower. Dormancy does not mean zero physiological activity. Life must go on, just at a more 'conservative' pace. ;)

P. geayi drops its leaves in late Fall, and will require almost no water until Spring. The trunk still has chlorophyll, and their are plenty of water stores, so I would expect some rate of growth, limited by temperature, sun, and water conditions. Without leaves, the rate of transpiration will be greatly reduced, and the need for external water drops. Cells are not in suspended animation, but are just 'breathing' very slowly. Perhaps the word 'hibernation' gets closer to the right concept.

P. namaquanum is curiously on the opposite annual cycle :)

Brad

I've noticed that "Maddy" will slowly lose its leaves througout the winter, and that no new leaf or stem growth is evident.

Is it creepy that I've named my plant? It is, isn't it.

Yes.

My P. geayi is named Rita. Her companion, the P. namaquanum, is named Bob for obvious reasons:

{{gwi:671602}}

Perhaps I need to make another post but I have a few questions about making an inorganic mix. I am going to use NAPA floor dry with turkey grit or maybe a clay soil conditioner, which is easy to find in the midwest, with turkey grit. I was wondering if there are any other ingredients that will be helpful in creating a good mix for next year. This is my winter project to hold me over while my C/S are snoozing. Thank you!
Steve

If you want to make an entirely inorganic mix, I see no reason to use anything other than the Floor Dry and granite grit. The Floor Dry holds a lot of water and they grit holds very little, so by varying the ratio of the two you can come up with a soil that holds as much or as little water as you like. I mix some pine bark in mine to help lower the pH a little, but there are plenty of people that grow nice plants without organics. I might start with 1/3 Floor Dry and 2/3 grit, but it will all depend on your growing conditions and watering habits.

Whatever you use try to keep the particle size between 1/8 and 1/4". For a number of years I used a mix that was one part scoria (crushed volcanic rock, red or black) and one part pumice. Pumice can be found in the form of a product called Dry Stall sold by many feed stores to horse people to absorb moisture in stalls. Scoria can be found in some builders supply stores or nurseries. In the past couple of years I have added a third component called Caladama which is crushed hard pan. I like the new mix very much but one must be sure to wash out all fines in a screen before potting. You can't get Caladama where you are. It is a product made in Fresno, CA.

THANKYOU SO MUCH for letting us know what Dry Stall is..

I have been ordering pumice by the small bag from e-bay all this time at 25 dollars a 5lb bag a pop, and just calling my local Agway and asking for this stuff, which they carry, is only going to cost me 15 dollars for a 40 pound bag..

YOU ROCK!! Thankyou..I love pumice! Now I can use it freely.:-)

agree with penfold 100%

For large pots, I use perlite because it is lightweight, mixed with Turface (which provides the water retention). By varying the proportions you can control the moisture levels.

And don't forget that in a 100% inorganic mix, you have to supplement all of the plant's nutrition with fertilizer. "organic" fertilizers won't work, they release nutrients by microbial breakdown. An inorganic mix won't sustain microbiota.

x

I have a hydro-grow fertilizer. I believe it is used for hydroponic growing. Would this be suitable as a fertilizer on an inorganic mix. If I put bark in the mix would I still need to use this or a special fertilizer? Thank you.
Steve

None of the ingredients, including bark, will supply any significant nutrients, so you need to provide all of them. A hydroponic fertilizer may have all the necessary plant nutrients, but we have no way of knowing for sure without reading the label. I'm including a link to an excellent thread on fertilizing container plants. It includes a list of all necessary plant nutrients and their appropriate ratios. You can check there, or post the ingredients and percentages here.

Here is a link that might be useful: Fertilizer Program for Containerized Plants

I just looked at the packaging and it is dyna-gro liquid grow. I have seen this name referred to many times in this forum. It says it contains all essential trace elements. Ill eperiment with it this spring and see how it grows :)
Steve

For those who are using inorganic mixes, how often are you fertilizing succulents? I did look at the links discussing this, but it's just too much for me to process.

Blutarski

Fertilizing depends very much on what you're growing, as you know. Something like Adenium or Pachypodium can be fertilized like any other tropical plant all summer long, whereas a slow growing succulent like Lithops needs a completely different fertilizing regimen.

For controlled applications, mainly for slow growing and dwarf succulents, I use diluted Algoflash. It has everything the plant needs. Occasionally I supplement with a liquid Calcium feed. One can use Epsom salts as well for a Magnesium boost.

For tropicals and robust "succulents", I use the Osmocote 3-4 or 5-6 month slow release formulation. I also add Magnesium and Manganese (via slow release crushed spikes) for added trace elements, along with gypsum for added Calcium. All these are added in the spring at the onset of growth. I assume they are pretty much used up by the time dormancy arrives. During the winter slowdown, fertilizer is not needed. For some tropicals that keep growing in the winter, I just use the Algoflash as needed.

I prefer the slow release fertilizers because you apply once, and that's it.

What I like most about the super well drained and aerated inorganic mix is that I can leave even sensitive plants outside without protection from rain and I have no fear of rot - well, almost :-)

x

could eggshells be used as a calcium supplement?

I don't think so, unless it is ground up into very fine particles you'd need a pretty strong acid to liberate the Calcium ions in an inorganic soil mix.

For outdoor-in-the-ground plants, it should work if it was composted first.

Gypsum is so cheap in large quantities, it shouldn't be an issue. I bought a 40-lb bag from a lawn supplier, it will last me many years.

x

Many fertilizers are missing calcium and magnesium, so if your fertilizer does not supply them, you should add both somehow. Garden lime supplies both, gypsum supplies calcium and can be supplemented with epsom salt for magnesium. I use a liquid supplement by Botanicare called Cal-Mag Plus. That way I know there is available calcium and magnesium at every watering. Also, some people with hard water have naturally high levels of calcium and magnesium out of the tap.

And I agree with xerophyte that eggshells would need to be broken down by microorganisms in order to be used by plants. That happens quickly in the ground, but too slowly and sporadically in containers.

Someone said Dyno-gro...

Great stuff....

Foiliage Pro is even better, from the same company...I am having great sucess with it..

An alternative to Osmicote is a similar product called Nutricote. Same basic idea but it has a more controlled release (constant rate over a longer period of time) and you can buy a version that has micros included...